Jack Layton Says Surrender.....

[capricorn]

ScottSA, "soft" is a great descriptor for what Canadians have become. I think Canadians have had it so good for so long they don't know what hard times really mean. Are we victims of our own success? Sure, we have problems, and internal changes are needed. The thing is, this global war on terrorism is cramping our style. The barbarians are not yet at the gate, but damn, they're trying hard. Who's to stop them? Certainly not Jack Layton as he waves the white flag.

[Peter F]

Typical leftards, you believe in freedom, democracy and human rights, you just don't want to do anything about it!!! Just make excusses for the enemy...

Typical right-wing two-faced hack. Didn't hear you chomping at the bit to liberate the downtrodden in North Korea...nope. silence regarding democracy and human rights there.

[B. Max]

\

So are you saying that the better man at killing is the winner and that we should keep that up. Nothing changes, keep on killing it is the way of the world

Unless you want to be the loser.

[ScottSA]

Typical leftards, you believe in freedom, democracy and human rights, you just don't want to do anything about it!!! Just make excusses for the enemy...

Typical right-wing two-faced hack. Didn't hear you chomping at the bit to liberate the downtrodden in North Korea...nope. silence regarding democracy and human rights there.

So in an effort to be an evenhanded lefty, would you care to suggest we ought to attack North Korea too? It's only fair. Maybe we oughta take a few rounds out of China too, what with sweatshops and pollution. Would it be hypocritical to go save Darfur when we have all those beheadings going on in Indonesia? Goodness, what shall we do in an effort to be perfectly fair, evenhanded, and equitable? Nothing?

Or should we dither about, tapping warlords on the shoulder and reminding them that the good book says we ought not step on each other's toes, much less commit genocide and mass rapes, so would they be so kind as to sip tea and nibble crumpets with us while we 'negotiate' more acceptable ways to enslave and disappear huge swathes of the population?"

[Peter F]

Typical leftards, you believe in freedom, democracy and human rights, you just don't want to do anything about it!!! Just make excusses for the enemy...

Typical right-wing two-faced hack. Didn't hear you chomping at the bit to liberate the downtrodden in North Korea...nope. silence regarding democracy and human rights there.

So in an effort to be an evenhanded lefty, would you care to suggest we ought to attack North Korea too? It's only fair. Maybe we oughta take a few rounds out of China too, what with sweatshops and pollution. Would it be hypocritical to go save Darfur when we have all those beheadings going on in Indonesia? Goodness, what shall we do in an effort to be perfectly fair, evenhanded, and equitable? Nothing?

Or should we dither about, tapping warlords on the shoulder and reminding them that the good book says we ought not step on each other's toes, much less commit genocide and mass rapes, so would they be so kind as to sip tea and nibble crumpets with us while we 'negotiate' more acceptable ways to enslave and disappear huge swathes of the population?"

Bullshit. Weaponeers whole point is to make political hay. Leftards are chickenshits is his claim. Leftys care not about anyone else - only themselves.

The facts are this ScottSA: No one made any efforts whatsoever to intervene in Afghanistan when the Taliban were taking over the country. Nobody - Nobody in the military was advocating a need to stop the Taliban from siezing control of the country. Zilch. Nada. Nothing.

Now weaponeer and yourself are on about how the muslim world must be defeated/conquered/outlawed for the sake of mankind/democracy/freedom/education of little girls and a hundred other boilerplate excuses that didn't mean shit on Sept 10th 2001 and don't mean shit today. Its bullshit and lies pulled out by you and weaponeer. The proof of that is that the fact that nobody advocates interfereing/liberating anywhere else - only Afghanistan.

All this care about humanity you and weaponeer claim for yourselves is absolute Lies and bullshit.

If you and weaponeer are to be believed then you would agree that North Korea, China, and a hundred other places in the world need saving.

You don't. You never have. Its political spin. Its hackery.

[ScottSA]

Typical leftards, you believe in freedom, democracy and human rights, you just don't want to do anything about it!!! Just make excusses for the enemy...

Typical right-wing two-faced hack. Didn't hear you chomping at the bit to liberate the downtrodden in North Korea...nope. silence regarding democracy and human rights there.

So in an effort to be an evenhanded lefty, would you care to suggest we ought to attack North Korea too? It's only fair. Maybe we oughta take a few rounds out of China too, what with sweatshops and pollution. Would it be hypocritical to go save Darfur when we have all those beheadings going on in Indonesia? Goodness, what shall we do in an effort to be perfectly fair, evenhanded, and equitable? Nothing?

Or should we dither about, tapping warlords on the shoulder and reminding them that the good book says we ought not step on each other's toes, much less commit genocide and mass rapes, so would they be so kind as to sip tea and nibble crumpets with us while we 'negotiate' more acceptable ways to enslave and disappear huge swathes of the population?"

Bullshit. Weaponeers whole point is to make political hay. Leftards are chickenshits is his claim. Leftys care not about anyone else - only themselves.

The facts are this ScottSA: No one made any efforts whatsoever to intervene in Afghanistan when the Taliban were taking over the country. Nobody - Nobody in the military was advocating a need to stop the Taliban from siezing control of the country. Zilch. Nada. Nothing.

Now weaponeer and yourself are on about how the muslim world must be defeated/conquered/outlawed for the sake of mankind/democracy/freedom/education of little girls and a hundred other boilerplate excuses that didn't mean shit on Sept 10th 2001 and don't mean shit today. Its bullshit and lies pulled out by you and weaponeer. The proof of that is that the fact that nobody advocates interfereing/liberating anywhere else - only Afghanistan.

All this care about humanity you and weaponeer claim for yourselves is absolute Lies and bullshit.

If you and weaponeer are to be believed then you would agree that North Korea, China, and a hundred other places in the world need saving.

You don't. You never have. Its political spin. Its hackery.

You're right. We should have just nuked it till it glowed.

But I think you miss the point. We attacked those countries because it was in the national interest to do so. But it's not in the national interest to stay, so there must be some other reason. Without merely reaching for the lefty boilerplate of "oil" and "Haliburton", can you suggest why we're there? After all, wouldn't it make more sense just to bomb it to rubble and leave them in the stoneage?

[Peter F]

You're right. We should have just nuked it till it glowed.

But I think you miss the point. We attacked those countries because it was in the national interest to do so. But it's not in the national interest to stay, so there must be some other reason. Without merely reaching for the lefty boilerplate of "oil" and "Haliburton", can you suggest why we're there? After all, wouldn't it make more sense just to bomb it to rubble and leave them in the stoneage?

Nuking...I understand, Scottsa, that you're quite willing to punish the innocent for the crimes of a few; That you subscribe to the terrorist mantra that all civilians are justifiable targets; That there are no innocents.

You are playing right into AlQueda's hands. You are the usefull idiot.

[ScottSA]

You're right. We should have just nuked it till it glowed.

But I think you miss the point. We attacked those countries because it was in the national interest to do so. But it's not in the national interest to stay, so there must be some other reason. Without merely reaching for the lefty boilerplate of "oil" and "Haliburton", can you suggest why we're there? After all, wouldn't it make more sense just to bomb it to rubble and leave them in the stoneage?

Nuking...I understand, Scottsa, that you're quite willing to punish the innocent for the crimes of a few; That you subscribe to the terrorist mantra that all civilians are justifiable targets; That there are no innocents.

You are playing right into AlQueda's hands. You are the usefull idiot.

Right. But would you like to answer the question? Why do you think we're still there? I get the definite sense that you'd like to do nothing at all and simply watch the world waft by, perfectly secure in the notion that no one wishes us ill and that if they do, we'd be much better to cringe away than to fight.

[Peter F]

Right. But would you like to answer the question? Why do you think we're still there? I get the definite sense that you'd like to do nothing at all and simply watch the world waft by, perfectly secure in the notion that no one wishes us ill and that if they do, we'd be much better to cringe away than to fight.

We are still there because NATO is still there. We are in the combat role because the Americans are looking for allies that will take on the combat role in Afghanistan. We are there to please the Americans.

Nothing terribly wrong with that, either. They are the great power - not us. Everything we Canadians have we have at the sufferance of the Americans. Our present committment to Afghanistan freedom and justice is entirely aimed to impress the Americans.

You have many impressions - most of them wrong.

[Charles Anthony]

Taliban Jack

I really hate this kind of crap.

No kidding. It really takes away from people's arguments when they use insults like that. Aren't insults against the forum rules anyway?

Correct.

The title of this thread has now been edited to reflect accuracy and to promote civilized discussion.

[Posit]

Without merely reaching for the lefty boilerplate of "oil" and "Haliburton", can you suggest why we're there?

The Taliban and anyone else that is anti-American in the middle-east represent an obstacle to American / western interests in the entire region. The Americans see the Middle East and need the Middle East to expand their market for the over-production of domestically produced goods and services. While they have found some comfort in dating the Saudis the risk to Americans and their companies is ever present. The American economy depends on ever-expanding commercial production of goods and services in order to keep share-holders in the profit range.

By drawing the fights away from the Arab states they keep an open door to commerce. Plus since there is an abundance of wealth in this region the constant threat at their door step keeps American arms sales at their peak in the region.

[runningdog]

QUOTE

Typical leftards, you believe in freedom, democracy and human rights, you just don't want to do anything about it!!! Just make excusses for the enemy...

Ahh yes, the 'left' is the source of all your problems. Do yourself a favor and pick up a history book or two. Im thinking ignorance is maybe closer to the source of your actual problems.

Andrew

nicely put Andrew. It's a shame that weaponeer feels he/she has to resort to name calling. Then again, when reality and truth are not your friend, y'all gotta do and say something, eh? ejackulation? Are you in elementary school?

[Army Guy]

I'm just curious is there anyone other those NDP supporters taking anything Jack Layton has to say serious?

Are we saying that the left is now a united front with one common goal, and what would that goal be? other than "get the troops home".

AndrewL:

Off the back of a match book no doubt. Apparently any jackass can get a degree....

Wow, andrew, are you sugesting that you have the moral high ground on this issue, that you more qualified to comment on this issue, that you have some inside information that the rest of us are not privy to...than say a guy with a military history degree, that wakes up every morning in Afganistan.

please do tell...

Because your comments are leading us down a different path, one that see's mom coming home and catching you on the computer again, and sending you to your room..comments like

Actually, we were a bunch of jew haters who gladly did business with nazis at the time of WWII. This of course was not too long after we committed our own genocide against the natives.

Are you claiming to actually be in aghanistan? I certainly hope you are not representative of the CFs? What a disgrace

And why have you not changed a fucking thing in six years? It will only get uglier.

You have no idea how stupid and corrupt the 'west' really is.

Your debating skills have been honed to a razors edge, they contain a wealth of info that supports your arguement. But maybe thats just me. Psst hurry up mom's coming home....

Then there was this little gem, which actually made coffee shoot out of my nose...as i nearly fell out of my chair. Now your claiming to have some respect for an institution which is responsable for maintaining all your rights and freedoms you have today. give me a break, in fact give us all a break...

Yikes. If you are actually in the CF i have lost some respect for that institution in our brief tit for tat here. You come across as a meathead.....

[White Doors]

ejackulayton is a bottom feeder. He's a vulture standing over the Canadians who died today. He does not have a goddammed clue about Afghanistan, war or history, he just makes up his own BS.

By definition anybody who invades and occupies Afghanistan obviously has zero knowledge of war and history.

Andrew

By definition, you posting this gives you zero credibility.

It's a popular leftist talking point, but surprise - it isn't true!

[White Doors]

I'm just curious is there anyone other those NDP supporters taking anything Jack Layton has to say serious?

Are we saying that the left is now a united front with one common goal, and what would that goal be? other than "get the troops home".

AndrewL:

Off the back of a match book no doubt. Apparently any jackass can get a degree....

Wow, andrew, are you sugesting that you have the moral high ground on this issue, that you more qualified to comment on this issue, that you have some inside information that the rest of us are not privy to...than say a guy with a military history degree, that wakes up every morning in Afganistan.

please do tell...

Because your comments are leading us down a different path, one that see's mom coming home and catching you on the computer again, and sending you to your room..comments like

Actually, we were a bunch of jew haters who gladly did business with nazis at the time of WWII. This of course was not too long after we committed our own genocide against the natives.

Are you claiming to actually be in aghanistan? I certainly hope you are not representative of the CFs? What a disgrace

And why have you not changed a fucking thing in six years? It will only get uglier.

You have no idea how stupid and corrupt the 'west' really is.

Your debating skills have been honed to a razors edge, they contain a wealth of info that supports your arguement. But maybe thats just me. Psst hurry up mom's coming home....

Then there was this little gem, which actually made coffee shoot out of my nose...as i nearly fell out of my chair. Now your claiming to have some respect for an institution which is responsable for maintaining all your rights and freedoms you have today. give me a break, in fact give us all a break...

Yikes. If you are actually in the CF i have lost some respect for that institution in our brief tit for tat here. You come across as a meathead.....

I have never seen such a disgusting series of posts in all of my time here at MLW.

For a smug little shit like that to openly insult a serving member of the CF's that is in Afghanistan now - I just can't begin to comprehend the thought process. It really makes me angry and ashamed at the same time. He sounds like he is actively angry with weaponeer because he IS a member of the CF's.

Maybe Canada doesn't deserve our soldiers. In fact, I'm sure that it doesn't.

I can't imagine how shit like this makes army guy and weaponeer feel.

It makes me sick and ashamed.

[ScottSA]

I have never seen such a disgusting series of posts in all of my time here at MLW.

For a smug little shit like that to openly insult a serving member of the CF's that is in Afghanistan now - I just can't begin to comprehend the thought process. It really makes me angry and ashamed at the same time. He sounds like he is actively angry with weaponeer because he IS a member of the CF's.

Maybe Canada doesn't deserve our soldiers. In fact, I'm sure that it doesn't.

I can't imagine how shit like this makes army guy and weaponeer feel.

It makes me sick and ashamed.

I agree. I'm sure the intent of those tie dyed teachers back in the 60s and 70s was to break through the myopic canons of the day and produce a generation of students with an awareness that went beyond the western perspective, but I wonder if they knew that in doing so they would produce a second generation of self-hating ideologues with no sense of formal history, no sense of what the rest of the world actually is like, and so divorced from the realities of life that their idea of foreign policy, moral fortitude, and right and wrong is captured in the single vague notion of "peace," and worse yet, "peace at all costs."

[White Doors]

I have never seen such a disgusting series of posts in all of my time here at MLW.

For a smug little shit like that to openly insult a serving member of the CF's that is in Afghanistan now - I just can't begin to comprehend the thought process. It really makes me angry and ashamed at the same time. He sounds like he is actively angry with weaponeer because he IS a member of the CF's.

Maybe Canada doesn't deserve our soldiers. In fact, I'm sure that it doesn't.

I can't imagine how shit like this makes army guy and weaponeer feel.

It makes me sick and ashamed.

I agree. I'm sure the intent of those tie dyed teachers back in the 60s and 70s was to break through the myopic canons of the day and produce a generation of students with an awareness that went beyond the western perspective, but I wonder if they knew that in doing so they would produce a second generation of self-hating ideologues with no sense of formal history, no sense of what the rest of the world actually is like, and so divorced from the realities of life that their idea of foreign policy, moral fortitude, and right and wrong is captured in the single vague notion of "peace," and worse yet, "peace at all costs."

Agreed 100%

This line of thinking is really the most dangerous thing facing western civilization now. Not terrorism, not Global warming, not anything else.

If we as a society decide that we hate ourselves more than we like ourselves, then we have already lost.

Islam is simply slipping in to take over the power vacuum.

[M.Dancer]

Taliban Jack

I really hate this kind of crap.

Send a letter to Taliban Jack and let him know.....maybe we can negotiate.

[M.Dancer]

Apparently any jackass can get a degree....

Andrew

I assume you have dozens.....

[M.Dancer]

Taliban Jack

I really hate this kind of crap.

No kidding. It really takes away from people's arguments when they use insults like that. Aren't insults against the forum rules anyway?

Correct.

The title of this thread has now been edited to reflect accuracy and to promote civilized discussion.

So are you suggesting that changing Taliban Jack's name will somehow make him less of an opportunistic worm? That perhaps he isn't grandstanding for votes on the still warm bodies of Canadians and instead sees surrender as noble?

You have more faith in the scurrilous cowardly wretch than i do.

[M.Dancer]

This fellow is bang on in his analysis of the shamefulless of Tal*b*n Jack

Jonathan Kay on Afghanistan, our six dead, and Jack Layton's disgraceful response

Jack Layton didn’t waste any time in handing the Taliban a propaganda victory yesterday. No sooner did news reach Canadians shores about the death of six of our soldiers than the NDP leader again urged an end to Canadian military operations in Afghanistan. Speaking at a press conference on Wednesday, Mr. Layton declared that “This simply underlines, with this escalating death toll of the soldiers and of civilians in Afghanistan, that this mission is going in the wrong way.”

Mr. Layton symbolizes why the West may just lose the battle against militant Islam: As soon as our enemies draw blood, he reflexively raises the white flag higher, offering to withdraw from whatever part of the world the jihadis happen to be targeting.

In this respect, Mr. Layton is a sad symbol of what has become of leftist politics: The same bleeding hearts who once urged Western politicians to help the world’s poor and afflicted now run for the exits when peacemaking and nation-building turn tough. In the case of Afghanistan, in particular, this defeatism is grimly ironic coming, as it is, from a politician who postures as the champion of gay rights and feminism:

http://communities.canada.com/nationalpost...l-response.aspx

[stignasty]

This fellow is bang on in his analysis of the shamefulless of Tal*b*n Jack

That's as far as I read. If that's how you preface something, I don't need to read any further to know that it's a load of crap.

[Peter F]

ejackulayton is a bottom feeder. He's a vulture standing over the Canadians who died today. He does not have a goddammed clue about Afghanistan, war or history, he just makes up his own BS.

There are actually very few wars in history solved at the peace table. AQ and the talibs are religious zelots that are not interested in negotiations, they view peace talks as a sign of weakness. "Our enemy wants to talk peace, they are defeated".

ejack is a very dangerous person, not willing to stand up against AQ, talibs and islamic evil. He is more hated here than the talibs, he makes me physically ill....

Jack Layton (from the G+M article):

"Mr. Layton said Prime Minister Stephen Harper needs to show leadership by urging the United States to stop high-altitude bombing in the war-torn country and withdrawing Canadian troops from what he characterized as a hopeless mission.

“It's the wrong mission; it's not working; it's not going to accomplish the goals,” said Mr. Layton, adding his party will ensure the issue is front and centre in coming federal byelections.

NATO's presence in Afghanistan is only boosting Afghan support for the Taliban, he said, adding the only way to peace is through negotiation."

He does not have a goddammed clue about Afghanistan, war or history, he just makes up his own BS.

I think it is you who doe's not have a goddamed clue about Canada's role in Afghanistan.

AQ and the talibs are religious zelots that are not interested in negotiations, they view peace talks as a sign of weakness. "Our enemy wants to talk peace, they are defeated".

ejack is a very dangerous person, not willing to stand up against AQ, talibs and islamic evil.

Canada isn't in Afghanistan to defeat AQ. We aren't even in Afghanistan to defeat the Talibs. Canada's aim in Afghanistan is to help secure the Kharzai government until such time that they can secure their own selves.

You are spouting bullshit about our need to defeat AQ+Talibs+evil Islam. That is not our aim at all and never has been. Where did you pull this crap from?

Taliban Jack is right. The only way to peace is through negotiations. There is no other realistic way to peace in Afghanistan. Without negotiations NATO will be fighting the Taliban as long as the Taliban wish to continue the struggle. Wether the Taliban wish to continue the struggle or not is entirely out of NATO's hands. The Taliban have shown a willingness to accept the casualties necessary to continue the struggle. Militarily NATO can continue to defeat the Taliban in the field for years to come. It doesn't matter politically. What matters is that the Taliban continues to exist and continues to attract recruits. NATO as yet has shown no ability to stop this. As long as the Taliban is successfull in recruiting there is no means to achieve the defeat of the Taliban militarily.

Negotiations is the only other option that can possibly achieve NATO's and the Kharzai governments goals.

puke all you want about it...Taliban Jack and the NDP are right. Understandably, this makes you ill.

[White Doors]

I think it is you who doe's not have a goddamed clue about Canada's role in Afghanistan.

nice. he's only a soldier over there NOW.

Could you be anymore pompous?

such ignorance.

[White Doors]

This fellow is bang on in his analysis of the shamefulless of Tal*b*n Jack

That's as far as I read. If that's how you preface something, I don't need to read any further to know that it's a load of crap.

Stigansty, you support Jack Layton on this?

I don't get it.