Michael Moore's 'Sicko' Scrutinizes Canada's Healthcar

[margrace]

There are a few things that are not covered by Medicare in Canada. Dental care, extra care for physio, chiro, massage thereapy, podiatrist, plastic surgery and prescriptions.

Prescriptions are covered by provincial programs but they kick in when you reach a certain threshold. People who are working and who have good plans get better coverage than those that don't have any insurance as one might expect. It can get pretty expensive for people who require a lot of medication.

Prescription costs are a major issue in Canada. Having said that, the costs are better controlled here than other jurisdictions. In these cases, it really does pay to have a good supplemental insurance program.

Thank you for your response.

I'd be curious to know what the 79 year old American would have to pay in comparison to a Canadian with the same affliction. I suppose that's something we'll never have an answer to.

Omitting another fact. In Canada if you are a senior under a certain income the government pays your meds, if you do have money you are required to pay the first $100. Come lets be honest here.

[SkyhookJackson]

Glancing through this thread, I've seen some really interesting posts; enough to make me curious enough to finally watch "Sicko." I'm not far into it, but already I'm guestioning some of the things that are being presented, especially in comparison to what's being said about Canadian health care here. In particular, there is a 79 year old man who has to keep working because medicaid doesn't pay for all of his medicine. From what I understand, Canada's health care doesn't pay for all of that type of thing either. If it did, why would health coverage be a benefit of some jobs? Why would Canadians need extra coverage?

Another couple had to move in with their kids because a heart attack and cancer bankrupted them. One doesn't lose their home when declaring bankruptcy, so I'm not sure how true that situation is being presented either. I know someone whose father declared bankruptcy because of heart surgery, and he's still in his home; and it's getting to the point where banks don't even consider medical bankruptcy when someone applies for a loan, so this hasn't been a problem for him.

Obviously no health coverage is a problem and I'm a huge advocate of getting national coverage, but since this thread seems to be comparing our health system to Canada's, I have to say from what I've seen that Canada's system needs a major overhauling too. Of course being uninsured myself, I'd rather have Canada's system. But when someone has really good coverage, I'd say the United States' system is superior, so I can understand why some wouldn't want to give that up.

Since when don't you lose your home over bankruptcy?? Laws differ from state-to-state with people gravitating toward Florida if they suspect they will be driven into bankruptcy because they have more generous laws which allow people to keep their homes. I personally know an individual who moved from the northeast to Florida for just that reason, although given a choice he would have remained in his home of many years with his family nearby. The state I live in allows a whopping $50,000 worth of equity in a home. If you declare bankruptcy here, the only question is which brand of used mobil home to buy after you've lost your home. I'm sure the Canadian system has its flaws, but compared to the nightmare below the border, it looks like heaven from this American's perspective.

[ScottSA]

I'm sure the Canadian system has its flaws, but compared to the nightmare below the border, it looks like heaven from this American's perspective.

Canadian bancrupty laws are very similar, varying from provionce to province. I believe that in most provinces one is only allowed to keep some of the equity in their home.

[jdobbin]

"

In Ontario there lottery site "Trillium" pays for your meds when you require expensive one. Interesting that this fact is ignored

I'm not in Ontario. Each province has their own rules when it comes to prescriptions. Some drugs approved and covered in B.C. are not approved and paid for and covered in Ontario. Each province has different thresholds to be reached if you are working or have retirement income before the prescription plan cuts in.

In Manitoba, we don't have the Trillium plan. I've never heard of it before.

Here is Ontario's plan:

http://www.johnsonschock.com/prov_ON.html

Here is Manitoba' plans:

http://www.johnsonschock.com/prov_MB.html

You'll notice Manitoba has a home care program. Ontario does not.

Manitoba's Pharmacare program is totally different from Ontario's.

Optometrists are not covered after 19 year or before 65 years of age.

I haven't ignored any facts. I only really know Manitoba's system in any detail when it comes to certain care like prescriptions.

[jdobbin]

Omitting another fact. In Canada if you are a senior under a certain income the government pays your meds, if you do have money you are required to pay the first $100. Come lets be honest here.

Ontario rules again. Check each province and the variances are great.

[jdobbin]

Thank you for your response.

I'd be curious to know what the 79 year old American would have to pay in comparison to a Canadian with the same affliction. I suppose that's something we'll never have an answer to.

I'd suggest that if the 79 year old lived in Ontario, they'd have all the prescriptions covered. In Manitoba, they'd pay a deductible and have the rest covered by Pharmacare.

[jdobbin]

Since when don't you lose your home over bankruptcy?? Laws differ from state-to-state with people gravitating toward Florida if they suspect they will be driven into bankruptcy because they have more generous laws which allow people to keep their homes. I personally know an individual who moved from the northeast to Florida for just that reason, although given a choice he would have remained in his home of many years with his family nearby. The state I live in allows a whopping $50,000 worth of equity in a home. If you declare bankruptcy here, the only question is which brand of used mobil home to buy after you've lost your home. I'm sure the Canadian system has its flaws, but compared to the nightmare below the border, it looks like heaven from this American's perspective.

Bankruptcies due to health costs probably do happen in Canada but not at the same percentage that they do in a profit driven health system.

[Guest American Woman]

Thank you for your response.

I'd be curious to know what the 79 year old American would have to pay in comparison to a Canadian with the same affliction. I suppose that's something we'll never have an answer to.

I'd suggest that if the 79 year old lived in Ontario, they'd have all the prescriptions covered. In Manitoba, they'd pay a deductible and have the rest covered by Pharmacare.

I think you're right about that. I'm curious now as to whether or not it would vary from state to state, also.

[Guest American Woman]

Since when don't you lose your home over bankruptcy?? Laws differ from state-to-state with people gravitating toward Florida if they suspect they will be driven into bankruptcy because they have more generous laws which allow people to keep their homes. I personally know an individual who moved from the northeast to Florida for just that reason, although given a choice he would have remained in his home of many years with his family nearby. The state I live in allows a whopping $50,000 worth of equity in a home. If you declare bankruptcy here, the only question is which brand of used mobil home to buy after you've lost your home. I'm sure the Canadian system has its flaws, but compared to the nightmare below the border, it looks like heaven from this American's perspective.

I'm not a lawyer or a banker, so I can't explain how one can still keep their house, but it might have to do with the type of bankruptcy being declared. You mention that a person can keep $50,000 equity in a home, which would suggest that any value above that could have been mortgaged, so as long as the person involved could keep making house payments, even if they are unable to keep making medical payments, the bank would have no reason to foreclose. I would guess that most people declaring bankruptcy don't have hundreds of thousands of equity in a home. If they do have that kind of equity, they are hardly "bankrupt."

[SkyhookJackson]

Since when don't you lose your home over bankruptcy?? Laws differ from state-to-state with people gravitating toward Florida if they suspect they will be driven into bankruptcy because they have more generous laws which allow people to keep their homes. I personally know an individual who moved from the northeast to Florida for just that reason, although given a choice he would have remained in his home of many years with his family nearby. The state I live in allows a whopping $50,000 worth of equity in a home. If you declare bankruptcy here, the only question is which brand of used mobil home to buy after you've lost your home. I'm sure the Canadian system has its flaws, but compared to the nightmare below the border, it looks like heaven from this American's perspective.

I'm not a lawyer or a banker, so I can't explain how one can still keep their house, but it might have to do with the type of bankruptcy being declared. You mention that a person can keep $50,000 equity in a home, which would suggest that any value above that could have been mortgaged, so as long as the person involved could keep making house payments, even if they are unable to keep making medical payments, the bank would have no reason to foreclose. I would guess that most people declaring bankruptcy don't have hundreds of thousands of equity in a home. If they do have that kind of equity, they are hardly "bankrupt."

If the medical bill is $250,000 and you've got $200,000 equity, you're definitely bankrupt. It may very well happen in Canada, but it's fairly common in the U.S. My husband is involved in the banking/real estate field and just last week dealt with a foreclosure because of medical bills and a refinance for medical bills.

[SkyhookJackson]

I just read an interesting article in the Los Angeles Times. Much to my amazement there is something even worse than American health insurance companies. Canadians might want to keep an eye out for predatory practices such as those described in the article. Money, money, money. It trumps all. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-fi-re...l=la-home-local

[bush_cheney2004]

What changes are being made in Canada after Chaoulli v. Quebec? There is tremendous political pressure to reduce wait times, and provinces are purchasing services for procedures in foreign countries, something that has existed for years, but may be accelerating until shortages in facilities and staff can be addressed:

Tens of millions of dollars are being spent by provincial governments each year to quietly send patients to the U.S. for medical treatment because the care is unavailable in Canada or the waits are too long. Documents obtained under Canada's freedom of information law and reported on recently by the Toronto Globe & Mail reveal that Ontario alone spent $67.4 million between 1999 and 2002 on preapproved medical treatment, including hospital and physician costs, in the U.S. (2002)

The American (and other foreign systems) provide the capabilities and capacity that Canada lacks, and have become the unspoken segment of Canada's health care system.

[Guest American Woman]

One thing that's misleading is how Canada's health care is referred to as "free." It's not free. The money is coming from Canadians through their tax dollars. Which is why it must be really annoying (to put it mildly) when people like Adrianne (I think that was her name) went into Windsor from Michigan claiming to be the common law wife of her Canadian friend to get "free" health care. Of course for her it was free.

[SkyhookJackson]

One thing that's misleading is how Canada's health care is referred to as "free." It's not free. The money is coming from Canadians through their tax dollars. Which is why it must be really annoying (to put it mildly) when people like Adrianne (I think that was her name) went into Windsor from Michigan claiming to be the common law wife of her Canadian friend to get "free" health care. Of course for her it was free.

Desperate people do desperate things. Wouldn't it be wonderful if our U.S. tax dollars went for health care instead of bombs?

[bush_cheney2004]

Desperate people do desperate things. Wouldn't it be wonderful if our U.S. tax dollars went for health care instead of bombs?

They already do....see Medicare, Medicaid, and Department of Health and Human Services budgets.

[Guest American Woman]

Desperate people do desperate things. Wouldn't it be wonderful if our U.S. tax dollars went for health care instead of bombs?

Yes, it would be wonderful if our taxes went to healthcare instead of bombs; but no matter how desperate that woman was, she is breaking Canadian law and stealing from Canadians, not to mention burdening any wait time Canadians might have by adding to the numbers, by going to Canada and lying about her residency.

And ironically, your "desperate people do desperate things" explanation describes a lot of fearful Americans who supported war, too.

Acts done out of desperation are no less damaging to the people they hurt.

[Riverwind]

One thing that's misleading is how Canada's health care is referred to as "free." It's not free.

Agreed. But we pay for a non-hassle insurance plan that will cover any medically necessary service with no deductable and no co-payments. What good is an insurance policy that requires 20% co-payment when medical bills can quickly run into the $100,000+?

[bush_cheney2004]

Agreed. But we pay for a non-hassle insurance plan that will cover any medically necessary service with no deductable and no co-payments. What good is an insurance policy that requires 20% co-payment when medical bills can quickly run into the $100,000+?

$80,000+.

[Riverwind]

$80,000+.

Which can only get if you have 20K to spend. Those who don't can go find a place behind the dumpster and die quietly.....

[bush_cheney2004]

$80,000+.

Which can only get if you have 20K to spend. Those who don't can go find a place behind the dumpster and die quietly.....

We spend more than $20K for small cars....if your life saving procedure is not worth $20K, then spend down for Medicaid. It's not rocket science.

[Riverwind]

We spend more than $20K for small cars....if your life saving procedure is not worth $20K, then spend down for Medicaid. It's not rocket science.

Many people do not have the money to spend 20K on a new car but I guess those people don't count. You also ignore the appalling moral delimnas such costs impose on people (i.e. if spend the money junior won't be able to go to college and I might still die or run out of money anyways - maybe i should just commit suicide now and save my family the money)

[bush_cheney2004]

Many people do not have the money to spend 20K on a new car but I guess those people don't count. You also ignore the appalling moral delimnas such costs impose on people (i.e. if spend the money junior won't be able to go to college and I might still die or run out of money anyways - maybe i should just commit suicide now and save my family the money)

Spare me the drama please....junior can join the armed forces and go to Iraq to earn $40K and more in education credits. Tell me about the 46 million who are dying in American streets again.

[Riverwind]

Spare me the drama please....junior can join the armed forces and go to Iraq to earn $40K and more in education credits.

Why because it makes you feel uncomfortable that the US healthcare system puts such a burden on people? Volunteering to be cannon fodder is hardly a choice - just gives papa even more reason to think that he would be better off dead.

Many Americans have to make those choices all of the time thanks to the "wonderful" system you have down there.

[SkyhookJackson]

Many people do not have the money to spend 20K on a new car but I guess those people don't count. You also ignore the appalling moral delimnas such costs impose on people (i.e. if spend the money junior won't be able to go to college and I might still die or run out of money anyways - maybe i should just commit suicide now and save my family the money)

Spare me the drama please....junior can join the armed forces and go to Iraq to earn $40K and more in education credits. Tell me about the 46 million who are dying in American streets again.

Wow. This post, more than any other I've read on this site, illustrates what is wrong with America. I've always said the difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Dems want everyone to do well, Republicans only think of #1. BC2004's solution is to send the young people into Dubya's quagmire? Amazing.

[bush_cheney2004]

Many Americans have to make those choices all of the time thanks to the "wonderful" system you have down there.

True...and choice is a good thing. Canadians will soon demand more choices too. Those with the cash already have more choices than your make believe "victims". They go to private physicians, the States, or abroad.

....please keep sending more patients down here....because we make that "choice" possible.