A blow to sovereignty?

[Shakeyhands]

http://www.thestar.com/article/230287

Who, within our borders are they answerable to? An how will the apologists spin this one?

[Topaz]

Just another step of Canada becoming North American. They have taken away the borders in the sky and they are slowing taking away our country. Someone should ask Harper how he feels about the US and Canada joining and take his answer with a grain of salt. The US is going to need our fresh water what better way to do than to get to the PMO!!

[M.Dancer]

http://www.thestar.com/article/230287

Who, within our borders are they answerable to? An how will the apologists spin this one?

Those are good questions.

Stephen Harper's government, which quietly published these proposed regulatory changes in its Canada Gazette last weekend, suggests the move is designed primarily to accommodate armed air marshals who routinely fly back and forth across the border. But it also says the arrangement would apply to other situations, including "various cross-border enforcement initiatives between Canada and the United States."

The answers to those questions notwithstanding, the policy makes good sense. What is the point of having armed air marshalls if they wouldn't be on US-Canada flights?

[GostHacked]

The answers to those questions notwithstanding, the policy makes good sense. What is the point of having armed air marshalls if they wouldn't be on US-Canada flights?

There will be some incident where an innocent is killed by one of these air marshalls, and much uproar when there is no accountability for the crime. A US Air Marshal, is just that, a US one. No jurisdiction in Canada.

Slippery slope, this can lead to other US operations in Canada, and not have any accountability for them.

But it also says the arrangement would apply to other situations, including "various cross-border enforcement initiatives between Canada and the United States."

What would those initiatives be? Kidnapping, rendition and torture?

[M.Dancer]

There will be some incident where an innocent is killed by one of these air marshalls, and much uproar when there is no accountability for the crime. A US Air Marshal, is just that, a US one. No jurisdiction in Canada.

To date, to my knowledge, no one has ever been killed by an air marshall. They are a deterent. If some innocent does happen to die becasue of an action by an air marshall, it is not a crime, it is a tragic accident. As far as there being no accountability, that is just irrational bias talking. This is a proposal. Not the end product. By the time it becomes operational, there will be accountability, most probably the same accountability that air marshalss all ready have.....

On the flip side, the number of dead innocent passengers killed by terrorists must be approaching the tens of thousands.....

So a US air marshall is just that....so lets change their name to international air marshalls...

But it also says the arrangement would apply to other situations, including "various cross-border enforcement initiatives between Canada and the United States."

What would those initiatives be? Kidnapping, rendition and torture?

[

One could only hope....but more likely drugs or gun smuggling involving hot cross border pursuits......

[Remiel]

...That rule was relaxed in 1995 specifically to let foreign leaders bring in armed bodyguards. However, these bodyguards – and anyone else who wants to bring a gun in or out of Canada – must apply for one-time permits.

For armed air marshals who make regular cross-border runs, this can be a bureaucratic process. But it seems to work. And it surely can't be more onerous than any of the other security provisions imposed on air travellers...

...But so far, none of these foreign agents has been given broad legal authority to arrest, detain or shoot anyone in Canada – which is why they are not allowed to carry weapons here. That privilege is reserved for Canadian peace officers answerable to Canadians. Now, Ottawa plans to erode this important distinction.

So, under the current rules, air marshalls can get permits to carry guns in Canada. What they are going to allow is radically beyond that now.

Remember the big huff over the " armed soldiers in the streets " comment, which was false? This is worse than that, and yet this is real.

[Shakeyhands]

this, to me anyway, seems to go beyond just Air Marshals. It will be interesting to see if this leads to US LEO's running operations here in Canada or not. Can you imagine if they were to arrest a Canadian and secret him off to the US or Gitmo? This seems a step closer to exactly that kind of scenario.

[weaponeer]

Just another step of Canada becoming North American. They have taken away the borders in the sky and they are slowing taking away our country. Someone should ask Harper how he feels about the US and Canada joining and take his answer with a grain of salt. The US is going to need our fresh water what better way to do than to get to the PMO!!

We are already N. American, that's where Canada is and always will be. As for the whole "sovereignty" issue, Canadians really need to grow up. People that are truely soverign don't have to go around telling everyone they are!!!

Canadians only care about sovereignty until it will cost them $$.

So some US or other law enforcment agents carry guns in Canada, it's reciprocal, our Mounties can carry guns in the USA. US cops with guns, here's a scoop, the British Army has a tank training brigade in Suffield Alta, more tanks and troops than our whole army. The Germans for years had a tank training brigade in Shilo Man, again it had more tanks and troops than our whole army. The British, Germans and Dutch Airforces have more fighter planes in Goose Bay NFLD than we have planes in the entire Canadian military. US Air Force jets (armed) routinely patrol Canadian skies on NORAD alert, because we can't and won't.

Our Sovereignty, please, we gave that up years ago.....

[Michael Bluth]

So, under the current rules, air marshalls can get permits to carry guns in Canada. What they are going to allow is radically beyond that now.

Remember the big huff over the " armed soldiers in the streets " comment, which was false? This is worse than that, and yet this is real.

There is no evidence this is radically beyond the current state of affairs.

Secret service can get one time permits as well.

Where is Walkom getting the information that the Buffalo police could be effected by this change?

This is an opinion piece by a self-admittedly strongly pro-Liberal columnist. Not a news story.

[Mulroney]

this, to me anyway, seems to go beyond just Air Marshals. It will be interesting to see if this leads to US LEO's running operations here in Canada or not. Can you imagine if they were to arrest a Canadian and secret him off to the US or Gitmo? This seems a step closer to exactly that kind of scenario.

I think the U.S./Canada relationship is still deep and respectful enough that a potential incident which involved these Marshalls would also involve bilaterial communication between our countries. It's not like Canada and the U.S. are at war and the U.S. would act unliaterally. I know what you are thinking. What about the Maher Arar example. Well, the Arar case was one incident but not an epidemic. And certainly not symptomatic of a future time when America will march across the border, take our oil, water, agriculture, women and children.

Relax and stop fighting the War of 1812. Manifest Destiny lives on only in the minds of Liberals and NDPers.

[Shakeyhands]

I know you have been to plenty of airports, I also know that you know that in most you do not need to clear customs in order to reboard, there is absolutely no need for this to be the case, it simply can't be a matter of convienence.

Its a form, fill it out. No need to cede anything to these security people.

[Mulroney]

I know you have been to plenty of airports, I also know that you know that in most you do not need to clear customs in order to reboard, there is absolutely no need for this to be the case, it simply can't be a matter of convienence.

Its a form, fill it out. No need to cede anything to these security people.

Remember that a gun is not simply a device to shoot. It is also a deterent. There is no reason to be worried that a Canadian will be gunned downed innocently. An Air Marshall has been trained carefully which means he/she is acutely aware of the dangers of firing a gun into a crowd and in an airplane at 38,000 feet. It's a matter of working closely with the US which - like it or not - we depend upon for our livelihood. And sometimes we need to give as well as take. It is also possible this story is designed to scare off would be hijackers. They might think twice if they knew Air Marshalls were likely on most Canada-US flights.

This article in the Star is typical hack journalism which makes great leaps in logic without considering any alternative answers. In reading back over the article, I noticed the writer to be slightly disingenious in some of his inferences. For example,

"Stephen Harper's government...suggests the move is designed primarily to accommodate armed air marshals who routinely fly back and forth across the border... But it also says the arrangement would apply to other situations, including "various cross-border enforcement initiatives between Canada and the United States. This is bureaucratese for open-ended. It means the new law could apply to just about any U.S. agency – from the FBI to Homeland Security to Buffalo police."

I think the writer is being slightly paranoid to suggest that by ceding some ground to Air Marshalls that we have essentially started an envitable process whereby US agents of all stripes will be granted unencumbered access to Canada or even that the Harper government will open the doors to all our national secrets. That in effect, any current or future US Administration gets first dibs on all CSIS files and gets to peer into the PM's sock drawer.

The writer alsp points out the apparent sinister presence of US agents at the Caledonia riots. Could it be they were here on a joint training exercise? Why is it immediately assumed they are here without our knowledge and are spying on us?

I have come to expect such paranoid journalism from the Star and the Sun.