Ontarians favor one public school board

[myata]

From CBC radio this morning, in a recent poll 58% of Ontarians favoured merging public and Catholic school boards creating a single public education system in the province (couldn't find a link on short search, will try later).

Is it time to end publicly funded religious education in this province?

[Mad_Michael]

Is it time to end publicly funded religious education in this province?

It was never a good time to start.

Premier Bill Davis deserves to be reviled as one of the all-time worst Premiers in Ontario history for this monstrosity of public policy.

Though, I think Mike Harris' poll position is safe - the sheer magnitude and quantity of his monsterous policy decisions dwarf's Bill Davis' single example of idiocy.

[myata]

I was listening to a discussion about the issue not so long ago, where the main argument "for" was that its a tradition that's deeply "entrenched". Those "against" were of both practical (saving on parallel administration) and principal (should public pay for a "specific" education? why only catholic and not other religions? etc) kind. My understanding is that catholic schools were already funded but only to a certain level, and the choice was to drop it alltogether or extend to the full level of the public system. Not unlike this government's decision on religious arbitration, that went the other way.

Anyways, maybe it was a right choice then. But the times change, situations change and traditions change. There's little doubt that savings on parallel systems can be redirected to the schools, which are underfunded. There's little doubt that majority supports it. The only issue is that it's a hot potato as far as politicians are concerned so there's pretty little chance of seeing any change before the election.

[M.Dancer]

Well if they do decide to end the separate school system, I will be thankful if they do it after my children have graduated.

Will it require a constitutional amendment?

[FascistLibertarian]

If the Catholics want there own school system let them pay for it.

It is horrible that they get their own schools funded by the government while other groups do not.

I can not express how offensive it is for me that my tax dollars go to supporting the Catholic school board.

I am pretty sure the UN has stated that this is wrong.

Getting rid of the Catholic school board now is the only logical and fair thing to do.

But it will not happen.

[myata]

What would it take to pass such amendment in this province? Apparently, Ontario is one of a very few provinces that still support the separate system, so it must be doable. Even in Quebec, for that matter.

[M.Dancer]

If the Catholics want there own school system let them pay for it.

They do. As anyone who pays property taxes in Ontario knows, you designate to which school system you taxes go to.

So your mock horror is misplaced.

[guyser]

Premier Bill Davis deserves to be reviled as one of the all-time worst Premiers in Ontario history for this monstrosity of public policy.

Touche !

What I think they are seeing is the huge demographics shift in that areas that were once Catholic/highly populated are now not sending kids in the same numbers . And now other areas where the schools are small are bursting at the seams.

One system, one Board is ideal.

Sorry Catholics, thats what a church is for.

Now , when and if they do this, watch for a huge sucking sound as all the Cath/Prot trutees and management start trying to save their jobs.

The school boards are the worst leeches on the public teat imaginable.

[Pat Coghlan]

From CBC radio this morning, in a recent poll 58% of Ontarians favoured merging public and Catholic school boards creating a single public education system in the province (couldn't find a link on short search, will try later).

Is it time to end publicly funded religious education in this province?

Why, so 100% of school boards will have their hands tied re: dealing with students who cheat on exams/assignments, as announced today by the public board?

[Leafless]

From CBC radio this morning, in a recent poll 58% of Ontarians favoured merging public and Catholic school boards creating a single public education system in the province (couldn't find a link on short search, will try later).

Is it time to end publicly funded religious education in this province?

There have been discussions on AM radio talk shows relating to this question.

Here is some more info on the subject.

http://www.oneschoolsystem.org/home.html

[Mad_Michael]

Why, so 100% of school boards will have their hands tied re: dealing with students who cheat on exams/assignments, as announced today by the public board?

Universities have been here for a long time.

Apparently, if we penalise plagarism, over half of our students will fail or be expelled. We can't have that, so...

[Pat Coghlan]

Why, so 100% of school boards will have their hands tied re: dealing with students who cheat on exams/assignments, as announced today by the public board?

Universities have been here for a long time.

Apparently, if we penalise plagarism, over half of our students will fail or be expelled. We can't have that, so...

The ones who depend entirely on cheating should be expelled.

I used to be a visiting lecturer for 1st year engineering students at a local university. Some students "cooperate" on some assignments, while some outright copy answers word-for-word on tests. Even when you're making 100 exams, you remember patterns. When I found a true copy, I kept the two parties after class and gave them the choice to tell me who did the copying, else they would each receive 1/2 the result. The one who copied usually fessed up and dropped the course.

If the public board was to start tolerating the latter type of copying, this would be quite tragic.

Another reason to register your kids in the Catholic board.

[guyser]

Another reason to register your kids in the Catholic board.

Catholics dont cheat at school ?

I doubt anyone group is better than the other.

[M.Dancer]

I'm happy we have a choice of systems and a choice of opportunities.

[Mad_Michael]

The ones who depend entirely on cheating should be expelled.

I used to be a visiting lecturer for 1st year engineering students at a local university. Some students "cooperate" on some assignments, while some outright copy answers word-for-word on tests. Even when you're making 100 exams, you remember patterns. When I found a true copy, I kept the two parties after class and gave them the choice to tell me who did the copying, else they would each receive 1/2 the result. The one who copied usually fessed up and dropped the course.

If the public board was to start tolerating the latter type of copying, this would be quite tragic.

Another reason to register your kids in the Catholic board.

I've caught multiple examples of plagarism amongst 1st year philosophy students (and none were punished). It is quite remarkable that in 90% of the cases, they actually pretend that they didn't know it was wrong.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that serial plagarism/cheaters are coming on close to 50% of all university students these days (the numbers apparently are rising very fast in the last few years - becoming epidemic now).

[Mad_Michael]

I'm happy we have a choice of systems and a choice of opportunities.

Will you be happy when this policy is taken as justification for the requirement that we taxpayers fund Jewish, Muslim and Hindu schools too?

[M.Dancer]

I'm happy we have a choice of systems and a choice of opportunities.

Will you be happy when this policy is taken as justification for the requirement that we taxpayers fund Jewish, Muslim and Hindu schools too?

As long as they can show need and follow the same guidelines as the existing systems. And considering the hugely obscene property taxes that are paid by jewish home owners in Forest Hill /avenue lawrence area...why shouldn't they have an option of diverting the school portions to Leo Baeck or Bialik.....

[M.Dancer]

I understand that Anecdotal evidence suggests that serial plagarism/cheaters are coming on close to 50% of all university students these days (the numbers apparently are rising very fast in the last few years - becoming epidemic now).

[Mad_Michael]

As long as they can show need and follow the same guidelines as the existing systems. And considering the hugely obscene property taxes that are paid by jewish home owners in Forest Hill /avenue lawrence area...why shouldn't they have an option of diverting the school portions to Leo Baeck or Bialik.....

You are referring to the old system are you not? Now the Catholic school board is fully funded regardless of who choses to check what box on their property tax forms.

And according to Mike Harris' wonderful new funding formulas, property taxes are not directly correlated to education any more.

[M.Dancer]

As long as they can show need and follow the same guidelines as the existing systems. And considering the hugely obscene property taxes that are paid by jewish home owners in Forest Hill /avenue lawrence area...why shouldn't they have an option of diverting the school portions to Leo Baeck or Bialik.....

You are referring to the old system are you not? Now the Catholic school board is fully funded regardless of who choses to check what box on their property tax forms.

And according to Mike Harris' wonderful new funding formulas, property taxes are not directly correlated to education any more.

I learn something new every decade.....

[guyser]

As long as they can show need and follow the same guidelines as the existing systems. And considering the hugely obscene property taxes that are paid by jewish home owners in Forest Hill /avenue lawrence area...why shouldn't they have an option of diverting the school portions to Leo Baeck or Bialik.....

You mean versus the Italians or ...in the same neighbourhood ?

They pay no more than I do , or you do for that matter. Value based, and until 2005 they had a huge break.2001 prop tax was the start up for the Forest Hill gang.

Since 2005 the taxes have jumped significantly but again , all value based. (some near 80%)

The system could not operate with any efficiency if all schools were funded the same way, and I suspect you know that. Hey if you want your kids to be at a Cath school fine, but that should not be arguement for the cause.

[Mad_Michael]

You are referring to the old system are you not? Now the Catholic school board is fully funded regardless of who choses to check what box on their property tax forms.

And according to Mike Harris' wonderful new funding formulas, property taxes are not directly correlated to education any more.

I learn something new every decade.....

Which decade?

The general funding of the Catholic school board is early 1980's (Bill Davis' retirement 'gift' to the people of Ontario) and Mike Harris' reorganization of the Provincial/Municipal funding transfer formulas is 1990's.

[Posit]

The Separate School Board IS a public school board with a different stream. It is in essence no different than the protestant public schools, the French immersion school system, or the disable school programmes. One does not need to be Catholic to attend a Separate School, so it is not aligned based on religious affiliation.

There is nothing wrong with having options in the public education system.

[August1991]

Premier Bill Davis deserves to be reviled as one of the all-time worst Premiers in Ontario history for this monstrosity of public policy.

Touche !

On the contrary, I think Bill Davis' decision was remarkable. It is akin to Stephen Harper's election of 10 Quebec MPs.

Once upon a time, Canada was divided by religion - not language. Irish Catholics married French Catholics, but no English Catholic would ever marry an English Protestant. Heck, Church of England looked down on Wesleyans and the Presbyterians, cheap as they were, had all the money.

Bill Davis simply made the playing field equal. He came as close as he could to Trudeau's request that Ontario be officially bilingual. Bill Davis was a good English Canadian. He compromised and got along.

----

In broader terms, maybe provinces should have school boards based on language. In Montreal now (after a constitutional amendment approved by a PQ government), there are only two school boards - English and French.

I'm intrigued by the OP's implicit idea that centralization is a good idea. Is it? Is it better to concentrate everything into one place? Would you agree to let Walmart (unionized and nationalized of course - call it Canmart) provide all retail services?

IOW, maybe provinces should have a multitude of school boards. IOW, why are there even school boards at all? I believe that in 2057 - fifty years from now - people will look at our current school boards (and teacher's unions) as an aberration of the past. They will see them the same way we think of home milk delivery, gas jockeys, driving a Pontiac or flipping through an Eaton's catalogue.

[geoffrey]

Charter schools and education vouchers. It's the way of the future. Let people have choice.