Bush Passport Requirements - Won't Pass

[August1991]

This is the best description that I have seen recently about the nature of North America:

"People in northern border communities don't see Canadian towns and cities as being in another country. Instead we see it as one nation with a river running through it,'' Slaughter told the House.

Toronto Star

Slaughter is a Congresswoman from upper New York State and she understands well the relationships between people in North America.

The Bush Administration's proposal to require passports at land crossings will not work. The volume is too great. It makes far more sense to use driver's licenses.

Most important however is to secure entry to North America in general. The border between Canada and the US is an arbitrary line, several thousand kilometres long, drawn across a continent. A politician can draw such a line on a map but the line is meaningless in the real world.

[bush_cheney2004]

Perhaps Slaughter has not faced the political music for America to secure its borders, and that includes Canada. Local cross border interests will not prevail over this pressing domestic issue. We only got lucky with Canada's Millennium Bomber.

The hue and cry to do something post 9/11 criticism and illegal immigrants push any such logic aside. There are elections to be won.

[Remiel]

August, property lines are also just artificial boundaries drawn on a map. What is your borderless solution to them?

And how about the laws of war? With no borders, how do you want to determine who " legitimate " combatants are?

All this talk of borderlessness is a bunch of nonsense. The organization of human society depends on borders, artificial lines drawn in the sand though they may be.

And I am sure Albertans will just love it when you start telling them that either A. they no longer derive any benefit from their own oil, or B. everybody else in entitled to a piece of their pie (way, way beyond what equalization does now). Good luck trying to win an election with that one.

Except, how do you determine who gets elected to govern what, with no boundaries?

[Riverwind]

The Bush Administration's proposal to require passports at land crossings will not work. The volume is too great. It makes far more sense to use driver's licenses.

I find the distinction between a drivers license and passport to be arbitrary. If it is ok to require a driver's license then why is it more onerous to require a passport? The border line up will be the same no matter what form of id is used.

Passports are only an issue because most people don't carry them regularily because of their size and the cost of getting one in the first place. The size problem could be addressed with new technology. The cost issue won't go away but so what?

[jbg]

Passports are only an issue because most people don't carry them regularily because of their size and the cost of getting one in the first place. The size problem could be addressed with new technology. The cost issue won't go away but so what?

Perhaps there should be a lower-cost ID issued for just the Canadian-US border. Also, perhaps, expediting and making less cumbersome the NEXUS system might help, for frequent border-crossers.

[Guest American Woman]

I Don't think Mexico and/or travellers to Mexico would appreciate a cheaper passport just for Canada. The Southern border states have the same concerns regarding Mexico as the Northern border states have regarding Canada, and vice versa. I think it's crazy that in the EU citizens can pass from one country to the next without even stopping for a border check, yet we're being required to have passports for our neighboring countries. It's a major cost for a family with kids, especially when they only cross for the day now and then. My guess is a lot of people will just stay within their own country, hurting businesses all three countries.

[jbg]

I Don't think Mexico and/or travellers to Mexico would appreciate a cheaper passport just for Canada.

There are huge differences. For one thing, Canada is not a major source of illegal immigration. For another thing, because of the common language across most of the border, the legitimate daily traffic is much larger. Buffalo-Niagara Falls, Windsor-Detroit, and even to an extent NYC/Toronto function as common international metropolitan areas.

I don't think there are any equivalent situations with Mexico.

[bush_cheney2004]

...For another thing, because of the common language across most of the border, the legitimate daily traffic is much larger. Buffalo-Niagara Falls, Windsor-Detroit, and even to an extent NYC/Toronto function as common international metropolitan areas.

I don't think there are any equivalent situations with Mexico.

This is not true...historically, and post 9/11, legal cross border traffic between Mexico and the USA is much larger than with Canada, particularly for same day travel:

Data show that the vast majority of same-day travelers cross the border in personal vehicles, especially along the Mexican border, which accounts for almost three-quarters of the passenger movement across the U.S. border by land. Border-crossing data also show that 290 million people entered the United States from Mexico in 2000 (table 11), approximately 800,000 a day, up from about 750,000 a day in 1998.16 About 16 percent of the people entered the United States from Mexico on foot, while most of the rest came in personal vehicles. Approximately 250,000 personal vehicles cross into the United States everyday from Mexico, with the largest share by far entering El Paso, Texas, and San Ysidro, California (table 12 and see also box 3). San Ysidro also handles about 300 buses each day.

Similar border-crossing data show that the number of people coming into the United States from Canada by land is about one-third of the number entering from Mexico, about 96 million in 2000, or 260,000 a day on average.17 Most of these enter in personal vehicles—about 100,000 a day on the Canadian border. Detroit and Buffalo-Niagara handle the heaviest traffic, half the amount of the most active crossing points on the Mexican border (table 13). The crossing points in the Buffalo-Niagara area also handle about 180 buses each day on average.

http://www.bts.gov/publications/north_amer...us_can_mex.html

Mexico has a much larger population than Canada, and the legal and illegal labor base contributes far more to the US economy. There are nearly twice as many points of entry on the Mexican border:

http://apps.cbp.gov/bwt/

[Remiel]

...and even to an extent NYC/Toronto function as common international metropolitan areas.

Could you please explain what you mean by this, jbg? I do not understand under what context you make this assertion.

[jbg]

...and even to an extent NYC/Toronto function as common international metropolitan areas.

Could you please explain what you mean by this, jbg? I do not understand under what context you make this assertion.

The daily travel (albeit air) between NYC and Toronto is massive. One my my lawyers is in Toronto all the time for depositions and lectures.

[marcinmoka]

Mexico has a much larger population than Canada, and the legal and illegal labor base contributes far more to the US economy.

Labour, yes. But goods? And that impediment can have adverse effects on the American economy.

The big irony as I see it? Closing off the nation and restricting economic growth is pretty much letting the subversive forces win.

[ft.niagara]

One my my lawyers is in Toronto all the time for depositions and lectures.

One of your lawyers? How many do you have? Or do you need? You must get into alot of trouble.

[ft.niagara]

The big irony as I see it? Closing off the nation and restricting economic growth is pretty much letting the subversive forces win.

I think that the US has a problem that Canada does not have, and that is illegal immigration. There is no way the US can have a passport policy for Mexico only, and it is in the direction of a national ID, which I applaud. Further, Canada has a looser border than the US would like for itself. Given that the US is the bigger target, I see no irony in a country trying to protect itself, and yes, in that respect, the subversive forces have won.