wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 And just because you subscribe to sewage bullshit where no one is responsible for their actions because they were only 16 is complete idiotic bullshit. At 16 I did enough stupid things, most often because I thought I could get away with it, but I knew the difference between right and wrong And the drinking age is 19 in Ontario, do you not see a problem with that? When is a person an adult when they can join the military, vote or drink? None of those prove you are an adult, only difference is that in the military those "children" are held to the same standard as the rest of us and they excel in it which to me proves that they are capable of determining right from wrong. So you think that someone is a child and mentally incompetent of though when they are 17 years and 360 days old but they become so the second that bell strikes midnight? Is there a magical wand involved? . Does not mean that they are stupid or unable to tell right from wrong. 54 days shy of 16, but yeah sure call it 15, more dramatic that way right? Well if you can form a proper thought maybe I could understand your question... Again if you could clean up your question then I can answer, right now you are making no sense... did you finish high school?...these aren't difficult concepts to understand... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 do you recall the alberta girl that took part in her families slaughter, her co-accused claiming she cut her 8yr old brothers throat, a crime far more horrific than Khadr was accused of....well that was 6 yrs ago she out attending university now trying become a normal responsible adult... Canadian courts recognize kids are not adults, they have a different thought process than adults, their brains are not fully developed even when their bodies are... That's not the courts; the court only operates within the parameter of the law. It's the law that sets the maximum sentence for a young offender at 10 years. It's the law that allows for time served and early parole. I'm not sure the example you raise is much of a defence of Omar. Many will view Omar being set free upon arrival in Canada as at least as much of an injustice as this woman being free six years after being an accomplice to the murder of her parents and allegedly slaugtering her brother. Quote
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 sure but he was clearly indoctrinated as a child soldier there is no dispute of that, he was not given choice nor did he the mental faculties to give informed consent.. The parts of international conventions relating to children and military activity indicate that a person 15 years of age and over has the faculties and enough information to decide to join a militant organisation and take part in hostilites. Quote
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 I'm pretty sure Khadr's lawyers were probono. He knew he was guilty and if he fought it further he would face 40 years in jail so he chose the easy way out. If he were innocent he should have fought to prove that rather than plead guilty and claim to be innocent. He wasn't exactly getting his full basic rights to due process, however. Quote
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 That's not the courts; the court only operates within the parameter of the law. It's the law that sets the maximum sentence for a young offender at 10 years. It's the law that allows for time served and early parole. I'm not sure the example you raise is much of a defence of Omar. Many will view Omar being set free upon arrival in Canada as at least as much of an injustice as this woman being free six years after being an accomplice to the murder of her parents and allegedly slaugtering her brother. the "many" who voice an opinion have in reality very little understanding of the law and how it's applied and why it's applied in the way it is...the "many" in general express ill informed kneejerk opinions with no fact to back them... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) The parts of international conventions relating to children and military activity indicate that a person 15 years of age and over has the faculties and enough information to decide to join a militant organisation and take part in hostilites. khadr did not join at 15 he was recruited/indoctrinated well before he was capable of forming an independent informed decision..."Stockholm Syndrome" has become an accepted phenomena that is recognized in legal judgements with adults and now because of personal political biases you want to deny that a similar phenomena is at work with a child?...if an adult with "adult" faculties can be brainwashed what hope does a child have to resist the same pressures... Edited July 20, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 He wasn't exactly getting his full basic rights to due process, however. which is why he was brought to Guantanamo so he wouldn't be subject to US law...he was tried outside of conventional law and much lower standards and rights... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) khadr did not join at 15 he was recruited/indoctrinated well before he was capable of forming an independent informed decision... From the information I can gather, he was living with his mother in Waziristan and he asked to join the big boys in Afghanistan in early 2002. That would make him well into his 15th year. [ed.: +] Edited July 20, 2012 by g_bambino Quote
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 which is why he was brought to Guantanamo so he wouldn't be subject to US law...he was tried outside of conventional law and much lower standards and rights... Yes, I know. Quote
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) From the information I can gather, he was living with his mother in Waziristan and he asked to join the big boys in Afghanistan in early 2002. That would make him well into his 15th year. [ed.: +] read this link... omar indoctrination takes places over many years you can't pick an arbitrary date/age for convenience... Edited July 20, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 read this link... omar indoctrination takes places over many years you can't pick an arbitrary date/age for convenience... I didn't pick the age. Those who drafted the Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and the 1990 Convention on the Rights of the Child did. Quote
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 I didn't pick the age. Those who drafted the Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and the 1990 Convention on the Rights of the Child did. you are, you selected his activity as starting at age 15 for convenience, he was already in weapons training camps at age 10..by 14 he had been trained to use AK47s, PKs and rocket propelled grenades...he was by every definition a child soldier by age 10, he was molded to his fathers ideals and the environment he was in to become a soldier, free will was never involved... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
g_bambino Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 [Y]ou selected his activity as starting at age 15 for convenience I already explained how I am not. The information I have says he was 15 when he asked to go to Afghanistan and become actively engaged with Al Qaeda. Nothing in the link you provided says otherwise. Certainly, he grew up in a family that immersed him in militant Islamist, Al-Qaeda propaganda. However, as the second interviewee in your link says, "[Omar's] older brother completely rejected living religiously and militantly, yet was never rejected by the family." Further, neither the international conventions nor, as far as I know, Canadian law make mention of the conditions of an accused's upbringing; they merely mention ages. And 15 is the age the international conventions deem that a person can be recruited to join a militant organisation and engage in hostilities. Quote
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) I already explained how I am not. The information I have says he was 15 when he asked to go to Afghanistan and become actively engaged with Al Qaeda. Nothing in the link you provided says otherwise. Certainly, he grew up in a family that immersed him in militant Islamist, Al-Qaeda propaganda. However, as the second interviewee in your link says, "[Omar's] older brother completely rejected living religiously and militantly, yet was never rejected by the family." Further, neither the international conventions nor, as far as I know, Canadian law make mention of the conditions of an accused's upbringing; they merely mention ages. And 15 is the age the international conventions deem that a person can be recruited to join a militant organisation and engage in hostilities. khadr timeline training in osama's camp at age ten...he never had a choice, his fate was decided for him... Edited July 20, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 you have no concept of law, You have no concept of reality, a guilty plea means just that, when someone like you claims that I am guilty does not mean guilt...well sorry If I don't take you seriously. no comprehension of biology in regards to behaviour, No, I am not one of those idiots who are ruining the next generation by not placing any responsibility on their actions, I have worked with the new generation of entitled, spoiled little brats who take no responsibility for their actions, someone else is always to blame, the behaviour is learned rather than biology. What they learn from their parents and teachers, and every other adult in their lives is that they are not responsible for anything, if they make a mistake someone else is responsible for it, and for the clean up. you express knee jerk opinions with no basis in fact.. As opposed to your knee jerk reaction to feel sorry for him, and treat him like a innocent little child? .in short you have no clue what you're talking about... Once you wipe the tears you cried for this piece of crap, and start thinking rationally you might see the light that he was responsible for his actions, no one forced him to do anything, and he is still a danger to Canada. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 did you finish high school?...these aren't difficult concepts to understand... When you can ask a clear question, maybe then we can talk about the answer. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 He wasn't exactly getting his full basic rights to due process, however. He was getting better legal representation than most of us can ever dream about let alone afford. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 the "many" who voice an opinion have in reality very little understanding of the law and how it's applied and why it's applied in the way it is...the "many" in general express ill informed kneejerk opinions with no fact to back them... You fall in the category of the "many", actually you DEFINE the category whit your knee jerk reaction and lack of any knowledge or understanding of the subject. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 khadr did not join at 15 he was recruited/indoctrinated well before he was capable of forming an independent informed decision..."Stockholm Syndrome" has become an accepted phenomena that is recognized in legal judgements with adults and now because of personal political biases you want to deny that a similar phenomena is at work with a child?...if an adult with "adult" faculties can be brainwashed what hope does a child have to resist the same pressures... Evidence? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 read this link... omar indoctrination takes places over many years you can't pick an arbitrary date/age for convenience... I think you ignored the conclusion of the one doctor. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 When you can ask a clear question, maybe then we can talk about the answer. you don't display the critical thinking ability to contribute anything meaningful on this thread... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 you are, you selected his activity as starting at age 15 for convenience, he was already in weapons training camps at age 10..by 14 he had been trained to use AK47s, PKs and rocket propelled grenades...he was by every definition a child soldier by age 10, he was molded to his fathers ideals and the environment he was in to become a soldier, free will was never involved... Do you have any sort of proof for this BS? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
wyly Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 He was getting better legal representation than most of us can ever dream about let alone afford. you have zero comprehension of law civil, criminal or international just your uninformed opinion...you have nothing, your opinion is worthless in this regard... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 you don't display the critical thinking ability to contribute anything meaningful on this thread... Really? Because it seems to me you think too highly of yourself, you state that my opinion is invalid without backing up your claim. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 you have zero comprehension of law civil, criminal or international just your uninformed opinion...you have nothing, your opinion is worthless in this regard... And yet you haven't provided any evidence to support your claim my opinion is worthless...Are you going to stomp your feet and cry now? Do you need a hug? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
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