Militant Islam - A People of Beggars, Extorters and Takers

[kuzadd]

wrt Africa: Ethiopia entered Somalia

You mentioned Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq, and suddenly you're introducing Somalia as if that was part of the original trio of instances. Nice but obviously dishonest.

But as to Somalia, that is another Muslim nation wracked by religious and tribal violence for decades now. Real good example of the face of Islam you're using there Kuzadd!

"You mentioned Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq, and suddenly you're introducing Somalia as if that was part of the original trio of instances. Nice but obviously dishonest."

actually I was discussing Somalia and Ethiopia.

Did you read it? Ethiopia was the instigator of that proxy war.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....opic=9149&st=30

No dishonesty, clearly you did NOT read what I wrote. I'll show you....

"Actually statistically speaking, Israel inflicts more violence on Palestine.

that is a fact, let's move on

OK?

Let's look at ...... the West, in Iraq, or the West in Afghanistan, or the West in Africa.

So how many non--Muslims are directing violence against Muslims, in proportional relation to population??!!!

read what is written it's all there....

[Remiel]

That is a flimsy excuse.

Whatever provocation Saddam may have offered, that was not the true reason that Iraq was attacked. So far, we have heard " Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction " , " Iraq posed an imminent threat to the U.S. " , " We want to bring peace and democracy to the people of Iraq " . Never, not ONCE, was the explanation given that " We were upholding the original terms to the cease fire at the end of the Gulf War. "

Besides, Iraq never would of invaded Kuwait if they did not think they had the implicit approval of the U.S. Administration. So, in essence the violence began with their silence.

[kuzadd]

The violence in Iraq was initiated by Iraq's attack on Kuwait. The leader of Iraq refused to sign any peace treaties, and repeatedly flouted the terms of the "cease fire". He taunted the victors and strung them along, for whatever reason. When he refused to fulfill the obligations he had agreed to in the cease fire the other party attacked and finished the job. That is the bald truth of the matter.

Yeah, and they 'took babies out of incubators" too , right?

oh, yea, and amassed troops at, was it the border of Saudi Arabia?

are these incidents correct?

if you think they are,you have little concept of what the 'bald truth' is.

[buffycat]

wrt Kuwait and Iraq:

Iraq did have a legitmate grievance against Kuwait, as the Kuwaitis were 'slant' drilling and thus stealing Iraqi oil.

And yes - Hussein was given a green light from Washington.

Haven't thought about that whole debacle for a while - along with all the 'demonisation' techniques applied then as well (incubator story).

The more things change the more they remain the same.

[buffycat]

The violence in Iraq was initiated by Iraq's attack on Kuwait. The leader of Iraq refused to sign any peace treaties, and repeatedly flouted the terms of the "cease fire". He taunted the victors and strung them along, for whatever reason. When he refused to fulfill the obligations he had agreed to in the cease fire the other party attacked and finished the job. That is the bald truth of the matter.

Yeah, and they 'took babies out of incubators" too , right?

oh, yea, and amassed troops at, was it the border of Saudi Arabia?

are these incidents correct?

if you think they are,you have little concept of what the 'bald truth' is.

I thought the same thing (see post!) Took me bit to write it as the phone rang...then I saw yours! LOL

Yeah that incubator fairy tale was quite the buzz eh?

[kuzadd]

I thought the same thing (see post!) Took me bit to write it as the phone rang...then I saw yours! LOL

Yeah that incubator fairy tale was quite the buzz eh?

Yeah, the whole crying Kuwaiti princess was quite the scam!

Argus/jbq's premise is that Muslim's cause a disproportianate amount of violence, but, the reality doesn't support the premise.

wrt Ethiopia/Somalia. Re: of Somalia's 'history' the fact is Ethiopia (backed by the US) invaded/instigated the latest warfare.

[White Doors]

I thought the same thing (see post!) Took me bit to write it as the phone rang...then I saw yours! LOL

Yeah that incubator fairy tale was quite the buzz eh?

Yeah, the whole crying Kuwaiti princess was quite the scam!

Argus/jbq's premise is that Muslim's cause a disproportianate amount of violence, but, the reality doesn't support the premise.

wrt Ethiopia/Somalia. Re: of Somalia's 'history' the fact is Ethiopia (backed by the US) invaded/instigated the latest warfare.

So let me get this straight, you thought Iraq was justified in invading kuwait and you think the violence in Somalia started when Ethiopia was invited in by the government to stop it?

is this about right?

[kuzadd]

I thought the same thing (see post!) Took me bit to write it as the phone rang...then I saw yours! LOL

Yeah that incubator fairy tale was quite the buzz eh?

Yeah, the whole crying Kuwaiti princess was quite the scam!

Argus/jbq's premise is that Muslim's cause a disproportianate amount of violence, but, the reality doesn't support the premise.

wrt Ethiopia/Somalia. Re: of Somalia's 'history' the fact is Ethiopia (backed by the US) invaded/instigated the latest warfare.

So let me get this straight, you thought Iraq was justified in invading kuwait and you think the violence in Somalia started when Ethiopia was invited in by the government to stop it?

is this about right?

BTW: Ethiopia never invited Somalia in.

Where would you get such an idea?

Did you even know the invader Ethiopia, was fighting on behalf of the US?

Did you know that the US was backing warlords in Somalia, to fight, as/and after Ethiopia was invading?

"More than a decade after U.S. troops withdrew from Somalia following a disastrous military intervention, officials of Somalia's interim government and some U.S. analysts of Africa policy say the United States has returned to the African country, secretly supporting secular warlords who have been waging fierce battles against Islamic groups for control of the capital, Mogadishu"

""

The U.S. government funded the warlords in the recent battle in Mogadishu, there is no doubt about that," government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari told journalists by telephone from Baidoa. "This cooperation . . . only fuels further civil war."

U.S. officials have refused repeated requests to provide details about the nature and extent of their support for the coalition of warlords, which calls itself the Alliance for the Restoration of Peace and Counter-Terrorism in what some Somalis say is a marketing ploy to get U.S. support."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1601625_pf.html

Isn't it amazing how "AlQuaeda" always shows up, right when the US is looking for a way to justify military intervention?

Afghanistan, Iraq, Ethiopia

wrt: Incubator baby/princess

In fact, do you even know what the 'incubator baby/crying princess" is about??

or the troops amassed on the Saudi border?

do you know what is being discussed?

I highly doubt you do, have any inkling.

[Shakeyhands]

First off, I haven't read a single post on this thread yet, but was taken by what you chose as a thread title, How is 'that' world any different from the Western world? Using your description of course.

[Shakeyhands]

Spot on. My worry is that this fundamental antagonism with Islam will be quite difficult to resolve peacefully. They consider themselves entitled to suport by the world, for their holy objectives.

And many, including myself, are not interested in supporting them.

And yet your choice of words for titles sounds like nothing so much as a variation on the anti-Jewish propaganda from before the Second World War. You're not helping your argument by failing to notice the details like that.

That is hardly an accurate observation unless you can show some parallel to Jews not just threatening other ethnic groups, but undertaking aggressive acts to carry out those threats in the period 1919 to 1939. I think you also have to consider the several wars Arabs have mounted against Israel.

There are no parallels in modern history. Pre-WW II, Jews were accused of things they had not done. That is far different than holding Arabs accountable for what they have done and openly threaten to do.

painting all of Islam with a pretty broad brush aren't we?

[White Doors]

I thought the same thing (see post!) Took me bit to write it as the phone rang...then I saw yours! LOL

Yeah that incubator fairy tale was quite the buzz eh?

Yeah, the whole crying Kuwaiti princess was quite the scam!

Argus/jbq's premise is that Muslim's cause a disproportianate amount of violence, but, the reality doesn't support the premise.

wrt Ethiopia/Somalia. Re: of Somalia's 'history' the fact is Ethiopia (backed by the US) invaded/instigated the latest warfare.

So let me get this straight, you thought Iraq was justified in invading kuwait and you think the violence in Somalia started when Ethiopia was invited in by the government to stop it?

is this about right?

BTW: Ethiopia never invited Somalia in.

Where would you get such an idea?

Did you even know the invader Ethiopia, was fighting on behalf of the US?

Did you know that the US was backing warlords in Somalia, to fight, as/and after Ethiopia was invading?

"More than a decade after U.S. troops withdrew from Somalia following a disastrous military intervention, officials of Somalia's interim government and some U.S. analysts of Africa policy say the United States has returned to the African country, secretly supporting secular warlords who have been waging fierce battles against Islamic groups for control of the capital, Mogadishu"

""

The U.S. government funded the warlords in the recent battle in Mogadishu, there is no doubt about that," government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari told journalists by telephone from Baidoa. "This cooperation . . . only fuels further civil war."

U.S. officials have refused repeated requests to provide details about the nature and extent of their support for the coalition of warlords, which calls itself the Alliance for the Restoration of Peace and Counter-Terrorism in what some Somalis say is a marketing ploy to get U.S. support."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1601625_pf.html

Isn't it amazing how "AlQuaeda" always shows up, right when the US is looking for a way to justify military intervention?

Afghanistan, Iraq, Ethiopia

wrt: Incubator baby/princess

In fact, do you even know what the 'incubator baby/crying princess" is about??

or the troops amassed on the Saudi border?

do you know what is being discussed?

I highly doubt you do, have any inkling.

Why do you avoid my questions? were that that difficult for you to answer? Of course Ethiopia never invited somalia in!! haha, do you even know what you are talking about here?

Yes, I hears all about the incubator incident, what's your point other than to avoid answering my questions?

The US as well as others were backing groups fighting against the Islamic courts union, of course - I would sure hope so. btw, have you noticed how the fighting has died out since Ethiopia restored order on behalf of the legitimate Somali government?

[kuzadd]

"Ethiopia restored order on behalf of the legitimate Somali government?"

so Ethiopia, (out of the goodness of there hearts of course), a predominantly christian nation backed by the US, restored order to an Islamic nation, whom they have fought against previously???

that's quite a stretch, really hard to believe.

did they?

you appear to be questioning your ownself?

You flatter yourself, if you think your questions are to "difficult"

what they are IMO is nonsensical, your like a drive by shooter , come post a few off topic-'challenging' questions ( not difficult, but baiting) then pat yourself on the back cause you think you have 'proven' something?

what I don't know?

but 'something'.

That's why I don't bother, your not interested in discussing, IMO, just proving "something' whatever that is to you.

In my book that's not a discussion.

You don't read what I posted, nor what the other poster said, you don't check out links, you, simply spout off, that's IMO.

if I saw differently I would legitimately discuss with you.

[downtoit]

Why do you avoid my questions? were that that difficult for you to answer? Of course Ethiopia never invited somalia in!! haha, do you even know what you are talking about here?

Yes, I hears all about the incubator incident, what's your point other than to avoid answering my questions?

The US as well as others were backing groups fighting against the Islamic courts union, of course - I would sure hope so. btw, have you noticed how the fighting has died out since Ethiopia restored order on behalf of the legitimate Somali government?

I have been reading here for a while and notice that they do not answer questions but avoid the issue and try to change the subject. This is typical of the heads in the sand mentality no pun intended -

[jbg]

Except that the violence in all three areas originated with the Muslims - something you apparently wish to forget.

I could of sworn that this round of violence in Iraq started with Americans in ships, tanks and planes. But you know, maybe that whole deposing of the Hussein regime was just my imagination. Yeah, now I remember, Saddam was involved in 9/11 and had Weapons of Mass Destruction. So, of course the violence started with him. Not.

The fact is Saddam made a lot of threats. Maybe they were not worthy of belief. However, you know, if you say things people just might believe them.

Words have consequences. Ahmenejad (sp) may learn that the hard way. We don't have to stand around helpless while people threaten to wipe us out.

[White Doors]

"Ethiopia restored order on behalf of the legitimate Somali government?"

so Ethiopia, (out of the goodness of there hearts of course), a predominantly christian nation backed by the US, restored order to an Islamic nation, whom they have fought against previously???

that's quite a stretch, really hard to believe.

did they?

you appear to be questioning your ownself?

You flatter yourself, if you think your questions are to "difficult"

what they are IMO is nonsensical, your like a drive by shooter , come post a few off topic-'challenging' questions ( not difficult, but baiting) then pat yourself on the back cause you think you have 'proven' something?

what I don't know?

but 'something'.

That's why I don't bother, your not interested in discussing, IMO, just proving "something' whatever that is to you.

In my book that's not a discussion.

You don't read what I posted, nor what the other poster said, you don't check out links, you, simply spout off, that's IMO.

if I saw differently I would legitimately discuss with you.

Nice. You won't even honestly state your position here. I wonder why. All you do is squirm away and avoid it.

Interesting for all to see...

[White Doors]

Why do you avoid my questions? were that that difficult for you to answer? Of course Ethiopia never invited somalia in!! haha, do you even know what you are talking about here?

Yes, I hears all about the incubator incident, what's your point other than to avoid answering my questions?

The US as well as others were backing groups fighting against the Islamic courts union, of course - I would sure hope so. btw, have you noticed how the fighting has died out since Ethiopia restored order on behalf of the legitimate Somali government?

I have been reading here for a while and notice that they do not answer questions but avoid the issue and try to change the subject. This is typical of the heads in the sand mentality no pun intended -

Yes, they want to control the flow. They don't like to answer the hard questions.

[kuzadd]

"Ethiopia restored order on behalf of the legitimate Somali government?"

so Ethiopia, (out of the goodness of there hearts of course), a predominantly christian nation backed by the US, restored order to an Islamic nation, whom they have fought against previously???

that's quite a stretch, really hard to believe.

did they?

you appear to be questioning your ownself?

You flatter yourself, if you think your questions are to "difficult"

what they are IMO is nonsensical, your like a drive by shooter , come post a few off topic-'challenging' questions ( not difficult, but baiting) then pat yourself on the back cause you think you have 'proven' something?

what I don't know?

but 'something'.

That's why I don't bother, your not interested in discussing, IMO, just proving "something' whatever that is to you.

In my book that's not a discussion.

You don't read what I posted, nor what the other poster said, you don't check out links, you, simply spout off, that's IMO.

if I saw differently I would legitimately discuss with you.

Nice. You won't even honestly state your position here. I wonder why. All you do is squirm away and avoid it.

Interesting for all to see...

"Interesting for all to see..."

Yes, I imagine so many posters are , oh so concerned?

Likely some will think you are wrong and some will think I am, so what?

You make yourself clear and my assessment accurate

'what they are IMO is nonsensical, your like a drive by shooter , come post a few off topic-'challenging' questions ( not difficult, but baiting) then pat yourself on the back cause you think you have 'proven' something?

what I don't know?

but 'something'.

your self-adoration is obvious. You are so good! You think you have scored points and "proven' something?

That will demonstrate "something"

Interesting for all to see

but what it is, who knows?

will anyone find it interesting?

will some find it annoying, amusing, shocking , appalling.

But, you think nonetheless you have proven "something" for all to see.

[White Doors]

Even more avoidance! I asked you two simple questions and you cannot answer them.

Your anti-semetic agenda is clear as you will not hold the same standards that you expect of Israel to Saddam Hussein for goodness sakes.

[kuzadd]

Even more avoidance! I asked you two simple questions and you cannot answer them.

Your anti-semetic agenda is clear as you will not hold the same standards that you expect of Israel to Saddam Hussein for goodness sakes.

what?

now how did you make that jump into the irrational and illogical?

oh, no never mind!