Shame on the Left and its Vicious Hatred of Israel

[White Doors]

... they mistakenly think that the Palestinians are the underdogs when it's really the Israeli's.

...they apply that at an international level they see the Israeli's as...

It''s why those of the FAR left are fanatically against Jews and Israel.

You'd be a lot easier to take seriously if you'd learn to use the apostrophe correctly.

thanks for your valuable input - once again.

[White Doors]

... they mistakenly think that the Palestinians are the underdogs when it's really the Israeli's.

...they apply that at an international level they see the Israeli's as...

It''s why those of the FAR left are fanatically against Jews and Israel.

You'd be a lot easier to take seriously if you'd learn to use the apostrophe correctly.

The use of apostrophe is hardly the worst thing contained in that post.

The blatent misrepresentation and skewing of truth really ranks as number. The Iraelis are not the underdogs, and there is absolutely no way anyone should be able to presume they were. Unfortunately, we are seeing an example of the truly self deluded.

Care to add to the conversation at all?

No? ok.

Deluded? yeah, how are those dominionists doing? I hear they are down 3-1 in the evil finals.

oh.. wait. crap. that's the senators.

oh well, I'm sure they are evil bastards in your eyes too.

haha

Me, deluded.

hahaha

[scribblet]

"While they scream about the Jewish state, they remain silent about human rights abuses carried out by brutal regimes across the world."

.............................

Utterly amazing at the hypocricy of some who never think about boycotting other nations whose Human Rights records make Israel look like Ghandi. Its okay for them to go ahead and single out Israel alone and forget China's human rights records, forget that homosexuals are routinely discriminated against in most other M.E. countries and especially in lite of recent postings here, lets forget that women are scorned and debased in many countries in the M.E. other than Israel... so lets just focus on Israel shall we and keep on denying that there isn't some anti semitism to it all.

The only people who use the term Zionists anymore are those who use it as a perjorative,

[Figleaf]

If he was being so slanderous and lying then it would be easy for you to call him on it.

I'd love to. How do you propose I go about that?

[Figleaf]

People of the left go for the 'underdog'. In this instance they mistakenly think that the Palestinians are the underdogs when it's really the Israeli's.

What idiosyncratic definition of 'underdog' leads you to make that rather silly-sounding claim?

Their hatred for the rich man turns into a hatred fro the Israeli.

Hey Mr. Anti-Semite -- give it a rest with the 'all Jews are rich' stereotype. I suppose you believe 'Jews control the banks' too?

[White Doors]

Only you would make that leap.

Would you not say the average Israeli is better off financially than the average palestinian?

yeah, I thought so. back to YOUR stereo-type now.

exactly where was your rebuttal again?

If you look inside yourself, that is EXACTLY why you side with the palestinians ALL of the time.

Only emotion can trump logic and the emotion in this case is jealousy.

[Figleaf]

Only you would make that leap.

Not at all. The blatent anti-semitism of your comment is there for all to see!

[White Doors]

Let them see then!

you are merely deflecting from the truth as you do not want to explore what I have said as you know it to be true of yourself.

Don't worry, no charge.

[Higgly]

The only people who use the term Zionists anymore are those who use it as a perjorative,

I use the term when I am discussing te British Mandate. Jews coming into Palestine at that time referred to themselves as Zionists and were referred to, quite properly, as Zionists.

[Higgly]

You'd be a lot easier to take seriously if you'd learn to use the apostrophe correctly.

thanks for your valuable input - once again.

You're welcome. No charge.

[Rue]

"If you'll notice, the common denominator between Darfur and Israel is not an oppressive ruling party like Iran or China (something which goes on unfortunately in far too many places in the world for us to stick our noses in every one of the situations), but rather an oppression by a ruling party against an ethnic community. Dictators thrive on greed whereas ethnic clashes are based racism and the manifestation is a powerful ruling party against another ethnic community (whether it's Darfur or Israel)."

I had to take a day off and breath before I responded. For you to equate the Sudanese regime and its genocide of Black Christian Sudanese with the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians shows where your head is at.

First of all let us once again deal with your preconceived views of Israel which are based on assumptions it is racist and it is involved in genocide.

For you to suggest Israel is engaging in genocide of Palestine is an absolute falsehood but who cares right? Why let facts get in the way of rhetoric.

Here is what utterly disgusts me about your comments. Do you know anything about Israel? Have you even the slighest clue that goes on there for you to make such statements or are you yet again another arm-chair genius who is in the know because you have read articles on the e-mail and everyone knows Zionism is racism and Israel for no reason simply goes out and engages in genocide.

How about you make an effort at least to understand how many Palestinians have been killed by Israeli troops and why, when and where. And while you are at it, and you call Israel racist and engaged in genocide, how about you explain to us how it is in your equation you ignore the Hamas and Al Fatah charters that call for the extermination of Jews world wide as well as the Jews in Israel.

How about you explain to us how the anti-semitism that is rampant across the Middle East and fuels the hatred against Israel is not as you would call it "racist". What magic formula do you use to only see one side of a conflict and completely ignore the other.

More importantly how is it someone like you who claims to know these things has not explained how if Israel is committing genocide it spent billions funding the Palestinian government, mosques, schools, community centres and agencies including employing 14,000 Palestinians in their government with its funds while the Arab League did NOTHING. Please explain to us how that is genocide.

Please explain to us how responding to terrorists who say they want you and Jews worldwide wiped out when they attack your civilians is genocide? Please tell us all.

More to the point explain why it is if Israel is so racist unlike any Muslim government in the entire world, it provides its Muslim and Christian citizens with the exact same legal rights as it does its own Jewish citizens.

How is it that Arab Israelis are voted to the Knesset, appointed Judges, and have equal access to hospitals, schools, and community centres? How is it the government of Israel guarantees Arabic as a legal language?

Why is it they vote and are allowed to openly criticize the Israeli government and are not as Jewish citizens are required to serve in its armed forces? Oh do tell us will you. And while you are at it do explain how in the Muslim world Jews are given these same rights.

Do tell us how the Israeli Defence Force and its government has a covenant that it proudly declares calling for it to search down Muslims and Palestinians world-wide and kill them all.

Why I even bother to respond is beyond me.

Is Israel a perfect nation? No. Does it have problems? Yes. But for you to suggest it is engaged in genocide and is doing to Palestinians what the Sudanese are doing to their citizens is absolutely wrong and you know it.

If you even took the time to look at your analogy you would have realized if for no other reason it is defective because the Sudanese genocide of Black Christians is against its own citizens. You are trying to equate what you see is Israeli treatment of NON citizens, i.e. Palestinian Muslims, as genocide. I guess it did not dawn on you that the people Israel targets are terrorists outside their country dedicated to wiping them out and Black Christians have not engaged in terror nor do Black Christians have a covenant to wipe out Sudan?

Ooh why let facts get in the way right? Why mention that when Palestinian civilians are killed it is because they are either engaged in terrorist activities or caught in the line of fire because terrorists choose to use them as shields or they find themselves in the line of fire between terrrorists and the IDF. Why mention that right. I mean you know, you are an expert its genocide right?

Until you make a serious effort to exercise your brain and venture out of the simplistic black and white name calling world of rights and wrongs and take the time to analyze the genocide going on in Sudan don't come on these posts and make blanket statements its being covered by the media as much as the Palestinian conflict. If you even made an attempt to research before you shot off at the mouth with such comments you would know the people of Darfur do not have the public relations and media apperatus the Palestinian Authority and Hamas do. You would no its people are penniless and forgotten and in fact there has been media watch analysis to show it is not being covered and there is media analysis to show how

the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, Al Fatah, Hezbollah, all are funded with millions of dollars to get their

stories into the media daily.

For you to suggest the Israeli government is engaged in genocide like the Sudanese government also is interesting considering other then people like you, arm-chair experts, the only people who would suggest Israel's actions to defend itself against terrorists is genocide have been the terrorists themselves.

Maybe you would like to find out just how much money Israel spent on social services in the West Bank and the Gaza before you refer to them as committing genocide. Or would that not fit in your convenient world of Israel evil bad bad bad.

[Guest chilipeppers]

Why I even bother to respond is beyond me.

Because you can't let the untruths anddistortion of history go, lot of people read this.

Any assessment of Israel’s record on discrimination needs to recognize the following points:

Israel’s citizens enjoy full equality before the law. This includes not only Jews from a vast array of ethnic and racial backgrounds – including many who would have been the victims of apartheid had they lived in South Africa – but the Muslim and Christian Arabs who make up one-fifth of the population.

Unlike Blacks in apartheid South Africa, Arab citizens of Israel have full political rights. They vote and participate in the political process, with Arab Knesset representatives across the spectrum, from the Communist and Arab nationalist parties through to the Likud. Salim Jubran, an Israeli Arab, is a judge on Israel’s Supreme Court.

In Jerusalem, the 120,000 Arab residents of the city are entitled to Israeli citizenship, but the vast majority have retained their pre-1967 Jordanian passports and therefore remain in Israel on the basis of permanent resident ID cards. In both 1996 and 2005, Arab Jerusalemites were permitted to vote in elections to the Palestinian Authority. The extraordinarily low turnout on both occasions was duly noted by observers. In the case of the post-Arafat elections in 2005, disillusionment with PA corruption, as well as the decision of the Palestinian Election Commission that all but 6,000 of the voters had to cast their ballots outside of Jerusalem, were the main reasons cited for the turnout.

Israel is one of the few countries in the Middle East and wider Islamic region where Christians, as well as Muslims and Jews, can freely worship. This stands in contrast with Saudi Arabia, where Islam is the only religion permitted, and with Iraq and Pakistan, where Christians have faced attack from Islamist terror groups.

Arab students and professors study, research, teach and – above all – argue and debate on all of Israel’s university campuses. At Haifa University, selected for a boycott by Britain’s Association of University Teachers (AUT), some 20 percent of the student body is Arab.

cont. here http://www.adl.org/Israel/apartheid/behind_the_line.asp

[Rue]

I had too look hard for it but I found an article by someone neutral on how genocide is used indiscriminately in regards to the Middle East conflict here it is;

The genocide myth - ours and theirs

By Bradley Burston

It is the nature of myth both to contain a kernel of truth, and to obscure the extent of the truth it contains.

So it is, that it is difficult for Israelis to free themselves from the sense that the Arabs want to see them all dead. Certainly there is some truth to the extermination myth, but no one knows how much.

Moreover, given the possibility that it may be true, and the inherent danger involved in really putting it to the test, no one really wants to find out.

In either event, the myth feeds into what may be called the First Law of Intractability, or the Law of Conservation of Anguish, which may be summarized as follows: The reaction of one side to its own specific pain, tends to directly accentuate the specific pain of the other.

Stated differently, our Holocaust pain and their Naqba (1948 war) pain potentiate one another.

Our chosen means of self-defense - incursions, body searches, discriminatory laws and regulations, refusal to recognize, refusal to negotiate, raids and bombings, house demolitions, imprisonments without trial, building walls through villages and over farmers' fields, kidnappings and assassinations of leaders - directly act upon the Palestinians' every humiliation nerve.

Their chosen means of redeeming their lost honor - suicide bombings, rocket attacks, masked paramilitary posturing, anti-Semitic incitement, refusal to recognize, refusal to negotiate, kidnappings of soldiers - directly act upon our every annihilation nerve.

So completely has this system taken us over, that it has manages to slough over the cultural borders between us, such that we have begun to react militarily out of humiliation - witness government actions at the end of the recent war in the north - and the Palestinians have taken it as a matter of course that the object of Israeli policy is genocide against the peoples of the West Bank and Gaza.

Both sides can marshal persuasive arguments in favor of the idea that genocide is the object of the other. For Israelis who lived through the 1948 war and the run-up to the 1967 war, there are no end of quotations from Arabs testifying to the idea that the motto Slaughter the Jews was meant to taken literally.

Hamas' resistance to recognizing the existence of Israel, currently backed by a large majority of Palestinians in a recent poll, only adds to the sense that all Israelis are potentially in their gunsights.

Palestinians - and Israeli Arabs as well - need only to look to the Teddy soccer stadium in Jerusalem to find Israelis willing to chant in delirious unison, "Death to the Arabs."

So it is that the myth of genocide has become an article of faith among both Jews and Arabs.

But what if it's not true? What if the original myth doesn't hold anymore? What if the Arabs don't want us all dead?

Forget, for the moment, the extremists.

There will be a pause, at this point, for the extremists in our own midst, who have convinced themselves that they are the only sane Jews, to state chapter and verse that the Arabs - all of them, or enough of them so that the others don't count - want nothing more than they want our extinction.

There will be a further pause for moderates to suggest that even if the vast majority of the Palestinians would be willing to live in peace with the Jews, the extremists are now in power, and might carry out genocide, if they saw a chance.

What is clear is that after years and years and years of bloodletting, Jews need to hear from Palestinians that they are willing to work for a solution that includes the Jews.

It is no less clear that the Palestinians, and their supporters abroad, need to hear a similar message.

Otherwise, the myth will remain a token of faith, a perverse badge of patriotic honor, deepening a rift that already defies healing.

Consider the following response, from a reader in Ireland:

"We simply can't see a genocide in Palestine and pretend it doesn't exist. Today, the Jews are starving, persecuting and killing the helpless Palestinians without any mercy, taking advantage of their domination over American policies and politics.

"But we in Ireland can't behave like political whores as many countries are behaving. We must stand up against the mad dogs of zionism. Will the Jews be angry? Well, who cares?"

There are good reasons to care. One of them is that the resort to the use of terms like genocide to describe the Israeli-Palestinian conflict acts to cheapen the term, to divert attention from real cases of genocide, and to further confound a solution here.

There is something about the use of the term genocide that makes us feel better - Jew and Arab both. It gives us the ultimate moral edge. It gives us the justification for our every excess.

But it is time we saw it for what it is. A myth.

Would the Arabs like to see the Jews disappear from the Holy Land? Of course. Would the Jews like to see the Arabs gone? In a heartbeat.

Is it going to happen? Not on your life. Because that's not what the vast majority of the Israelis and Palestinians want. They want to find an accommodation. They want to find some way to separate and live, independently and in peace.

We cannot let anger speak for us, for either of our peoples, any longer. Too many have died on both sides.

[Remiel]

That is an interesting article you have there, Rue.

From time to time, you see arguments like those, that seem to go to the heart of an issue. Unfortunately, most people seem to be too invested in the myths to be able to begin to take the solution off of the drawing board and put it into the real world. Furthermore, it is very difficult for those in between to muster up enough righteous indignation to actually take control of events from the people with more extreme points of views.

You pointed out that Israel has spent a lot of money in the Palestinian territories, but somewhere in there I think that perhaps too many think that if they are willing to throw some money at the problem, that they can hold onto their own cherished myth about how things really are. There must be some missing element in the Israeli approach to trying to help rebuild " Palestine " .

On the other side of things, I have never seen a plan for how a Palestinian government that isnt armed to the teeth could possibly survive the predations of Fatah and Hamas. Those two groups seem to be choking the life out of Palestinian politics. For peace to survive, they need a workable plan and the resources to get rid of the warriors.

[Figleaf]

Let them see then!

Yes, they will see how shocking your attitudes about Jewish people really are.

{And so how do you like the taste of your own medicine?}

[Figleaf]

Why I even bother to respond is beyond me.

Because you can't let the untruths anddistortion of history go

That's exactly the motive that usually prompts me to write posts on this conflict.

[Figleaf]

I had too look hard for it but I found an article by someone neutral on how genocide is used indiscriminately in regards to the Middle East conflict here it is;

Thank you for going to the trouble. It's a very wise and eloquent article.

I particularly thought this was good:

The genocide myth - ours and theirs

By Bradley Burston

... the First Law of Intractability, or the Law of Conservation of Anguish, which may be summarized as follows: The reaction of one side to its own specific pain, tends to directly accentuate the specific pain of the other.

Stated differently, our Holocaust pain and their Naqba (1948 war) pain potentiate one another.

Our chosen means of self-defense - ... - directly act upon the Palestinians' every humiliation nerve.

Their chosen means of redeeming their lost honor - ... - directly act upon our every annihilation nerve.

Reading that, I think I'd add that what seems to flow from those feelings is a tendency for the interests of moderates on either side to be swept up by the reactions of their own extremists.

[White Doors]

Let them see then!

Yes, they will see how shocking your attitudes about Jewish people really are.

{And so how do you like the taste of your own medicine?}

haha

I'm not offended because I know it's not tue.

the truth hurts figgie!

lol

[Figleaf]

Lies hurt. You can't tell the difference, you dirty anti-semite.

Denied the Holocaust lately?

[White Doors]

Lies hurt. You can't tell the difference, you dirty anti-semite.

Denied the Holocaust lately?

You're lies about me don't hurt. I like how you are getting desperate.

keep going!

[Catchme]

The thread title set up the tone of this thread , and of course participants in the thread continued with the negative tone set up by the title between one another.

But now this thread is under way, let's look at the reality of the postulations in the title.

1. It states a premise that the "left" has a vicious hatred of Israel. Now the reality is the "left" is absolutely chalk a block full of Jewish persons. It could hardly be said that the "left" has a vicious hatred of Israel, now could it?!

2. Moreover, the left can hardly be said to hate anyone, after all, the complaints against the "left" from the right, always contain the fact that they feel the "left" is too tolerant of EVERYONE. So, from that perspective it is highly unlikely that the "left" hates anyone, let alone viciously hate a country. Now that is a serious inconsistency in thought processes, that those on the right fail to perceive or at least acknowledge.

3. Theere are mistruths postulated here about Israel and the formation of it, based upon the Palestine Mandate and events leading to and after.

historians do not accuse Britain of favoring either side or of collusion with the enemy. They also reject the claim of Jewish extremists that their terrorist campaign forced Britain to withdraw. An economic crisis in Britain and the overall decline of the British Empire forced Britain to be content with holding only those areas of its empire that were of high strategic value in the Cold War era. Palestine was not one of them. Early on, leaders of the Jewish community recognized the imminent end of British rule in Palestine, while the political leadership of the Palestinians seemed convinced that the British Mandate would remain longer, especially after the failure of the Palestinian revolt against it from 1936-39.

From the moment London decided to refer the Palestine Mandate to the United Nations—from February 1947 onwards—the Jewish leadership in Palestine effectively mobilized its community and prepared it for the takeover of the Mandatory government and its functions. The Palestinian leadership, with its prominent members exiled abroad by the British, did very little in this direction, and failed to organize its community financially or militarily.

The result was that the Jewish community was superior both militarily and financially when a civil war broke out between the two communities in November 1947. Jewish superiority also was evident in the number of fighting men. In the local war, which lasted between November 1947 and May 1948, Jewish forces took control of all of the mixed Jewish-Arab towns in Palestine and seized crucial transport routes as well. The end of Palestinian presence in Palestine began not because few Jews fought against many Arabs, as the official Zionist version would have it, nor was it a miracle, as the mainstream Israeli historians tend to describe it. It was simply the outcome of a military advantage.

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=35&aid=427&pg=4

Please do read the link it is to the University in Haifa and it details the conflict and the creation of Israel, in factual reality, as opposed to the myths spread by both Israel and Palestine.

[White Doors]

1. It states a premise that the "left" has a vicious hatred of Israel. Now the reality is the "left" is absolutely chalk a block full of Jewish persons. It could hardly be said that the "left" has a vicious hatred of Israel, now could it?!

2. Moreover, the left can hardly be said to hate anyone, after all, the complaints against the "left" from the right, always contain the fact that they feel the "left" is too tolerant of EVERYONE. So, from that perspective it is highly unlikely that the "left" hates anyone, let alone viciously hate a country. Now that is a serious inconsistency in thought processes, that those on the right fail to perceive or at least acknowledge.

perhaps you should ask Svend what he thinks about Israel.. or perhaps the former leader of the BC young liberals association?

lol

you need to do more research!

[downtoit]

Oh yes, good ole Svend wonder if he'll be taking any more trips to support terrorism.

I gear that there is a national day of action against Israel and picketing of Chapters. In this case it is my imperative duty to purchase something from Chapters that day.

In early June, Palestinians will mark 40 years of Apartheid Israel's illegal military occupation of the Palestinian West Bank, Gaza Strip and the Syrian Golan Heights. The Active Steering Committee of the Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign has called for global days of action to mark this anniversary throughout the world.

The Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid (CAIA) is organizing pickets outside Chapters/Indigo Book stores in Toronto and other cities across Canada. Please check caiaweb.org for details.

[Rue]

1. It states a premise that the "left" has a vicious hatred of Israel. Now the reality is the "left" is absolutely chalk a block full of Jewish persons. It could hardly be said that the "left" has a vicious hatred of Israel, now could it?!

2. Moreover, the left can hardly be said to hate anyone, after all, the complaints against the "left" from the right, always contain the fact that they feel the "left" is too tolerant of EVERYONE. So, from that perspective it is highly unlikely that the "left" hates anyone, let alone viciously hate a country. Now that is a serious inconsistency in thought processes, that those on the right fail to perceive or at least acknowledge.

3. Theere are mistruths postulated here about Israel and the formation of it, based upon the Palestine Mandate and events leading to and after.

In regards to 1 ,since when can a Jewish person not hate Israel let alone have a vicious hatred of Israel? Do you think because someone is Jewish, that automatically means when they make anti-semitic or anti-Israel comments, they can't be? This the same typical kind of left wing bull that says a black person can't be racist or a woman can't be sexist. Of course Jewish people can viciously hate Israel or other Jews. Any minority can hate their own minority status. Uh hello do you not think there are Muslims who hate parts of their own religion or hate their own governments or do you think simply because they are Muslim they don't? You think blacks can be racist or its an impossibility? Well? Its a stupid comment that generalizes all Jews and engages in a stereotype about Jews that many leftists engage in. They think if they quite someone like Benny Morris who is a Jew by heritage, then when he makes anti-semitic or anti-Israel comments, automatically these comments have automatic credibility since he is Jewish. That is b.s. and its an exercise engaged in time and time again by anti-Israelis on these posts. . The fact that some is Jewish is irelevant to the opinions they state when they criticize Israel and to fuse being Jewish and anti-Israeli opinions as being inextricable and interchangeable is by its very nature necessarily an anti-semitic stereotype of Jews since it suggests anyone who is Jewish when they engage in vicious attacks against Israel, aren't simply because they are Jews. That is a false generalization and it serves as a cover to legitimize anti-semitism and its precisely why anti-semites love to quote Jewish anti-semites. The point is anyone can think and have prejudices about anyone and the fact they are Jewish or anything else does not preclude them from being prejudice. Some of the biggest homophobes in the world are gay, some of the worst sexists are women and some of the most intolerant people against Christianity or Islam are Christian and Muslim. I think your assumption needs to be challenged. I am not saying you make the assumption because you hate Jews either. I do not think that all.

In regards to 2, you are enagged in generalizations again. Manyleftists have demonstrated anti-semitic, racist, sexist, homo-phobic and other intolerant views. Where have you been? Do you really believe you can generalize and depict ALL leftists as tolerant? What have you been reading? Do you mean to tell me you would have us believe Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, the Communist regime in Camobodia that killed hundreds of thousands are tolerant?

[Remiel]

This the same typical kind of left wing bull that says a black person can't be racist or a woman can't be sexist.

Many of us find leftists anti-semitic, racist, sexist, and quite intolerant.

While I agree with some of your rebuttal of the more obviously faulty logic in those three points, I fail to see why you make your own seemingly outrageous generalizations in return.

People who actually believe what you mention in that first point would be better defined as primarily ignorant, not primary left.

As for the second, what was stopping you from adding " that are " between " leftists " and " anti-semitic " , as that was the only difference between a dumb generalization and a factual statement?