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[BC_chick]

I'm not sure I follow. Yes, ethnocentrism can be separated from xenophobia, and xenophobia isn't always based on supremacist ideas (though I think more often than not it does).

But either way, what does have to do with the inexplicable tendency for xenophobes to gravitate toward the CPC and my inability to feel welcome within this group?

[kimmy]

I don't believe it is racist or xenophobic to oppose the doctrine that multiculturalism is an end in itself or disagree that multiculturalism should be a state-sponsored objective.

And if refusing to tolerate or accept aspects of other cultures that utterly contrary to Canadian ideals is racist or xenophobic, then we should all be more racist and xenophobic.

If I am a racist or xenophobe for despising customs like slicing the clitoris off of young girls, or drowning female infants because your family can't afford the dowry, or executing young people suspected of homosexuality, or any of a million other things we've seen in other parts of the world, then I am fucking proud to be a racist and xenophobe and you should be ashamed to not be one.

-k

[BC_chick]

And if refusing to tolerate or accept aspects of other cultures that utterly contrary to Canadian ideals is racist or xenophobic, then we should all be more racist and xenophobic.

Count me in on that one. Never argued otherwise.

[ScottSA]

Nope. But I see it doesn't take much to draw fascist tendencies to the surface...

That's funny. Because I could have sworn you were suspended. And since I had nothing to do with it, I don't know who's tendencies you are referring to.

I'm refering to yours. It's a mark of fascism to retreat...not to a comprehensive argument; not to a statement of principle; but instead to a threat, or in your case an innuendo, an implication of threat. In the absence of a counterargument, you need to cow the opposition instead. The Sturmabteilung were past masters at the technique.

[scribblet]

I'll add another from the last page of this thread....

Scriblett defending xenophobia

There is nothing racist about being against a policy which has resulted in a cult of ethnicity fueled by government sponsored and financed Multiculturalism. The result has not been healthy. We are now composed of, not individuals, but of inviolable ethnic and racial groups, all of whom are pigging out at the taxpayers’ financial trough.

That's xenophobia - disagreeing with official multiculturalis LMAO like I said, beining against multiculturalism is NOT racist or xenophobic sheez I think my husband would find it funny too.

Believing that the taxpayers should fund programs which accentuate differences and drive wedges between people is not racism, multiculturalism is a personal choice and should not be publicly funded.

Your accusations certainly fit these definitions and you've certainly managed to demean and lower the value of real xenophobia and racism.

- the act of disagreeing with a liberal in a discussion in which the topic of race comes up.

- The act of not pretending that there are no problems at all with multicultural immigration.

- The act of disagreeing with official multiculturalism.

- a conservative, and in a pinch a moderate.

- an Albertan.

But either way, what does have to do with the inexplicable tendency for xenophobes to gravitate toward the CPC and my inability to feel welcome within this group?

What inexplicable tendency - I find this absolutely hilarious, the last riding I was in I worked for our chinese candidate, and an east indian for President. I suspect Rahim Jaffer among others, would also find it hilarious. How many meetings or how many conservatives have you actually been involved with, none I bet.

You yourself have just lost all credibility as you have again managed to tar and feather a whole group of people with nothing but empty air.

[jdobbin]

I'm refering to yours. It's a mark of fascism to retreat...not to a comprehensive argument; not to a statement of principle; but instead to a threat, or in your case an innuendo, an implication of threat. In the absence of a counterargument, you need to cow the opposition instead. The Sturmabteilung were past masters at the technique.

Baloney. Your belligerence and bluster seem to lead you to attacks that send you to the penalty box. Stop playing the victim.

[ScottSA]

And if refusing to tolerate or accept aspects of other cultures that utterly contrary to Canadian ideals is racist or xenophobic, then we should all be more racist and xenophobic.

Count me in on that one. Never argued otherwise.

Then what exactly are you arguing? You've retreated in what amounts to a rout from your original position, yet you're still firing broadsides hither and yon in what seems to have become an argument based on "feelings" about the the political bent of "racists," although you're having an increasingly hard time defining just what you mean by even that term. You've contradicted yourself numerous times, tossing words out as if they were breadcrumbs and not units of textual meaning, leaping from "racist" to "xenophobe" to "supremacist" and then scrambling to define them or what at least you mean by them as an afterthought. You accuse Scribblet of xenophobia in one breath and agree with Kimmy that it's a good thing when she says the same thing in the next breath.

I think what you're really doing is attempting to defend a flippant remark you made without thinking, and that you have never really taken the time to examine your prejudices. It's a common failing in our society...the art of thought in an era of mass stimulation is for the most part lost, and the excess stimulation tends to drive most people to the simple heuristic of looking at the world through unexamined bytes and slogans. This tendency explains, I think, why so many in the west are slavishly concerned with "openess" and "acceptance" as a Virtu unto itself. Discrimination, once upon a time when words had more depth of meaning, used to be seen as a good thing; as an ability to parse the good from the bad. Now that ability is seen, foolishly, as a bad thing.

All of these ideations and superstitions seem to lie as a subtext under your vague arguments. Perhaps it's time to take a good look at exactly what you DO believe and THEN write it down, instead of simply thinking by the seat of your pants as you write.

[ScottSA]

I'm refering to yours. It's a mark of fascism to retreat...not to a comprehensive argument; not to a statement of principle; but instead to a threat, or in your case an innuendo, an implication of threat. In the absence of a counterargument, you need to cow the opposition instead. The Sturmabteilung were past masters at the technique.

Baloney. Your belligerence and bluster seem to lead you to attacks that send you to the penalty box. Stop playing the victim.

Seems to me that you're the one blustering and belligerating. And threatening. Not to mention ad homineming. But hey...if you prefer to threaten rather than argue, that's your call!

[jdobbin]

Seems to me that you're the one blustering and belligerating. And threatening. Not to mention ad homineming. But hey...if you prefer to threaten rather than argue, that's your call!

More victimization. I certainly never threatened you. I was just watching and seeing a repeat of the same behaviour that sent you to the sidelines once before. You see to be oblivious to the fact. Oh well.

[ScottSA]

Seems to me that you're the one blustering and belligerating. And threatening. Not to mention ad homineming. But hey...if you prefer to threaten rather than argue, that's your call!

More victimization. I certainly never threatened you. I was just watching and seeing a repeat of the same behaviour that sent you to the sidelines once before. You see to be oblivious to the fact. Oh well.

If I thought for a moment that I was suspended for my "colourful views," I wouldn't be here right now. I don't have any use whatsoever for the lockstep mindmeld unity of right-think you seem enamoured of. If I'm not mistaken, I was suspeded for calling fags fags or something, but as it was explained to me, Greg only has time to look at reported posts and certainly not enough time to read everything. So if I were you, I'd start leaning on the "report this post" button so as to preserve the unity of thought and right-think you seem to treasure. Then you can go back to tremulating over Harper's coif in the secure knowledge that no heretical ideas are circulating...

[Who's Doing What?]

In what way am I an extremist on any subject? You've actually done a study in order to conclude what the contents are of "96% of what I post?

Hurtful? Who is hurt? Whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits?

Well... good.

Do you need a hug??

Runningdog seems more in need of a hug. Anyone who uses the term "hurtful" and "angry" to describe other points of view is either a propagandist or has an extremely tenuous hold on their emotions...

So you missed the obvious anger and abject distain displayed in the above post.

Seems to me like there is some pent up anger issues that should be dealt with.

[ScottSA]

In what way am I an extremist on any subject? You've actually done a study in order to conclude what the contents are of "96% of what I post?

Hurtful? Who is hurt? Whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits?

Well... good.

Do you need a hug??

Runningdog seems more in need of a hug. Anyone who uses the term "hurtful" and "angry" to describe other points of view is either a propagandist or has an extremely tenuous hold on their emotions...

So you missed the obvious anger and abject distain displayed in the above post.

Seems to me like there is some pent up anger issues that should be dealt with.

Well, maybe it seems that way to you, but it seems possible to me that he's just tired of listening to whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits. It's not particularly "pent-up," either, to borrow from your street-corner psychological "analysis," since he actually allows it to escape and apparently run rampant over your sensibilities.

[BC_chick]

Thanks all for the contribution.

For the record, I did not set out to engage in a debate on whether or not xenophobia or cultural supremacy are moral, warranted, or justified.

All I wanted to do was to establish a link between those who believe it to be a perfectly natural phenomenon, with those who are staunch supporters the CPC.

I believe I have established that.

[Who's Doing What?]

Well, maybe it seems that way to you, but it seems possible to me that he's just tired of listening to whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits. It's not particularly "pent-up," either, to borrow from your street-corner psychological "analysis," since he actually allows it to escape and apparently run rampant over your sensibilities.

LMAO

So your street corner psycho-analysis is perfectly capable of disecting someones actions but mine is dismissable?

I love the double standard you guys cling to like a life preserver.

The fact that he felt the need to describe others who don't share his point of view in that manner shows he has issues. Your defense of such stereotyping is laughable and only shows you are of a like mind.

[ScottSA]

Well, maybe it seems that way to you, but it seems possible to me that he's just tired of listening to whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits. It's not particularly "pent-up," either, to borrow from your street-corner psychological "analysis," since he actually allows it to escape and apparently run rampant over your sensibilities.

LMAO

So your street corner psycho-analysis is perfectly capable of disecting someones actions but mine is dismissable?

I love the double standard you guys cling to like a life preserver.

The fact that he felt the need to describe others who don't share his point of view in that manner shows he has issues. Your defense of such stereotyping is laughable and only shows you are of a like mind.

But I didn't offer a psychological analysis. You did. Just like you're offering one of me now. Thank you so much. I'll give it deep thought. Ok, now that I've thought about it, I'll toss it out back with all the other analyses and threats that seem to fall like hail from whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits. Of course I'm not talking about you here, so don't go getting all twitterpated and start lunging at the "report this post" button quite yet; I'm just borrowing Argus' generic description for whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits, or who develop, from hundreds of miles away, great meta-theories of personality involving people one has never met.

[Who's Doing What?]

But I didn't offer a psychological analysis. You did. Just like you're offering one of me now. Thank you so much. I'll give it deep thought. Ok, now that I've thought about it, I'll toss it out back with all the other analyses and threats that seem to fall like hail from whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits. Of course I'm not talking about you here, so don't go getting all twitterpated and start lunging at the "report this post" button quite yet; I'm just borrowing Argus' generic description for whiny, thoughtless, emotionally insecure ideologues who post without thought, and whose idea of research is to check an internet site of like-minded twits, or who develop, from hundreds of miles away, great meta-theories of personality involving people one has never met.

Ah but you did do your own analysis when you said mine was wrong. To come up with a differing oppinion you would have had to analyse the situation.

Again with the name calling and generalizatons of people who don't think just like you do. Sad really.

Also to think that just because you say you aren't directing a comment at me, covers the fact that directing it towards me is exactly what you are doing is a complete farce.

With the way you treat people who don't think like you, perhaps you should go spend some time on "an internet site of like-minded" people.

[ScottSA]

Is this your version of a "nyah nyah?" Is it something that should be looked at by a professional?

[Argus]

I clearly made a distinction between xenophobia and racism earlier in the thread and I said that even though sometimes the former is based on the latter, that is not always the case. I went on to say that even though I personally disagree with both (for reasons beyond the scope of this discussion), I understand xenophobia more so than I do supremacy.

However, all I've been trying to say all along, is that as an visible-minority, pardon me for stating that I am not comfortable joining hands with a group who attracts vast number of people who do not want to see me in this country.

Don't most Asians marry other Asians in Canada? Would your parents be happy if you brought home a Black man? I'm betting NOT. Clearly people feel kinship for those who are more like themselves, and that is the situation for people of all races and ethnic groups. It only seems to be "racist" when it's White people.

Do you call your parents racists?

[Argus]

Self-admitted xenophobes who are conservatives.... scriblett for one. ScottSA, Argus, and mikedavid.

Your turn to name some non-conservative xenophobes.

BC_Chick, for one, appears to be extremely hostile, xenophobic and bigoted.

[Argus]

and a link to one of their Conservative/racist posts?

I'll start things off with one example: Link

No doubt this was the part of that post you hated the most:

I guess my problem is that I'm against racism and prejudice.

[Michael Bluth]

BC_Chick, for one, appears to be extremely hostile, xenophobic and bigoted.

Touché

[Argus]

Self-admitted xenophobes who are conservatives.... scriblett for one. ScottSA, Argus, and mikedavid.

Your turn to name some non-conservative xenophobes.

and a link to one of their Conservative/racist posts?

I'll add another from the last page of this thread....

Scriblett defending xenophobia

There is nothing racist about being against a policy which has resulted in a cult of ethnicity fueled by government sponsored and financed Multiculturalism. The result has not been healthy. We are now composed of, not individuals, but of inviolable ethnic and racial groups, all of whom are pigging out at the taxpayers’ financial trough.

So Scriblett stating he is against multiculturalism is prove he is a racist? I see more evidence of bigotry and prejudice coming from you than from him.

[Argus]

The operant word here is "unduly." One could be, and many were, fearful and contempuous of Nazis from 1933 to 1945 and Germans in general from 1939 to 1945, but few would today argue that they were "unduly" fearful and contempuous. Islam is a similar case. I grew up in India, long before Islam began to be taken over by murderous 6th century goatherders, and it was bad enough even then. You probably don't realize that in India today, as in the India of the 1970s, there are hundreds of people killed a months in riots across the subcontinent, and in 9 out of 10 of those cases, Islam is at the root of it. It's so common that the only time we in the west hear about it is when the numbers get really high in a particularly egregious episode. Now Islam is fast changing from a merely bad religion into an atrocious religion; far worse than it was when I was in India. And the only thing about it that's moving forward are its armaments and it's propaganda arm...everything else is moving backwards at speed. It is not a religion of peace. It is a global scourge, and there is nothing at all "undue" about either my fear or my contempt of it.

Because I grew up in India, I know exactly how "multiculture" works, and it doesn't work well. It never has. I am dreadfully fearful of the results when critical masses of distinct self-identified cultural, religious, or racial groups begin to coalesce. It's beginning to happen in Canada...it's why Sikhs, Chinese, Blacks, and other like groups tend to congregate in certain areas. It is destined to destroy democracy, which is premised upon the Idea, but is rapidly giving way to group power politics. Multiculturalism is a naively nice idea, but it bodes ill for the future of any country which has adopted it.

The contempt that many feel is not so much for the "foreigner" as for the culture they attempt to foist on us. We in the west have created the best culture in the world. It is not a mere accident of geography that the west shot ahead of the rest of the world; it is a cultural feat. Our system of government, our economic systems, our philosophies, our creations, are all light years ahead of any other culture...that's why people want to live in the first world and not the other way around. It is with a great deal of very warranted contempt that I see 3rd world cultures arriving from the squalor they came from and attempting to change us into them. And neither my fear nor my contempt is undue.

Very well put.

[Argus]

Ah, well, since my name came up, perhaps you'd like to point at one of my "xenophobic" posts. Hint: the best definition I can come up with for xenophobe is:

"A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples."

Weren't you suspended for your colourful views?

jdobbin sees his job these days to sit on the sidelines while debate gets heated, and watch closely for any hint that the side he doesn't like might be in some small way insulting the side he does. He then pops up to demand that person obey the rules and stop insulting people. Then he sinks back into the obscurity he so richly deserves.

[Michael Bluth]

jdobbin sees his job these days to sit on the sidelines while debate gets heated, and watch closely for any hint that the side he doesn't like might be in some small way insulting the side he does. He then pops up to demand that person obey the rules and stop insulting people. Then he sinks back into the obscurity he so richly deserves.

But shouldn't the moderator be the one responsible for reminding people of the rules?