gc1765 Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 If a group of people who happens to believe that wearing fur is wrong (among other beliefs) wishes to get together and have a group and speak their mind about this and other things among their own group, that is their business. If one of their leaders comes to the podium to speak at one of their meetings wearing a mink shawl, it is their business to decide if that violates the code of their society, or whather or not they should forgive. And if a group of people who happens to believe that thinking homosexuality is a sin is wrong, wishes to post on an internet message board about this, that is their business. Since you don't even want to belong to the church why do you care about it. Most people in the church don't want to be homosexuals, so why do certain members of the church care about it? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
betsy Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 Cybercoma, A child comes to a group of children playing their own game of hide and seek. "Can I play?" asks this child. "Yes!" the children answer. Not long after that, this lone child starts changing the rules of the game. The other kids get upset....and why shouldn't they? They had a good game going. They were nice to let this kid join in. And now this kid is calling the shots and starts messing it up. So I say to this little trouble-maker: if you don't like the way they're playing, and they don't like the changes you're making....why don't you go and play by yourself....and make up your own game? What I'd like to know is why would these homosexuals, who obviously do not believe in the teachings of this religion insist to impose themselves? Why is it so important to join a group who practice what goes against your own belief? No one is stopping these homosexuals from forming their own religion, and have their own interpretation of the bible. So why don't they? For imposing their own interpretation, and distorting what most true Christians believe....what do these homosexuals hope to gain? Quote
jefferiah Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 If a group of people who happens to believe that wearing fur is wrong (among other beliefs) wishes to get together and have a group and speak their mind about this and other things among their own group, that is their business. If one of their leaders comes to the podium to speak at one of their meetings wearing a mink shawl, it is their business to decide if that violates the code of their society, or whather or not they should forgive. And if a group of people who happens to believe that thinking homosexuality is a sin is wrong, wishes to post on an internet message board about this, that is their business. Since you don't even want to belong to the church why do you care about it. Most people in the church don't want to be homosexuals, so why do certain members of the church care about it? Once again QC, most members of PETA probably don't want to hunt seals, but don't you think it would be odd of them to pick a seal hunter to chair their organization, when it goes against one of their tenets. Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
cybercoma Posted May 28, 2007 Author Report Posted May 28, 2007 Of course, hunting seals is a choice, while sexual drive is innate. Hunting animals that are going extinct (forget the idiotic seal issue) has terrible consequences to ecosystems, meanwhile being in a monogamous and honest relationship with someone of the same sex affects no one. Not that I have any respect whatsoever for PETA (check out the number of animals they kill each year), but at least they pretend to have a logical purpose for their BS. The Church is simply hate-mongering. You can split hairs all you want by saying, "it's not the person, it's what they do." But, that's like saying you're perfectly alright with the Taliban, you just think what they're doing is wrong. Clearly this Church, after making Bishops of these men, is preaching intolerance towards homosexuality and is making them feel unsafe at their own job. Quote
kuzadd Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=bja2...VcIMmIP7CJ1V63N defenders of marriage: 'defending the institution of marriage against people who wanna get married' Yah, gotta love that line alone! Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
kuzadd Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 sorry for hijacking the thread, but the song, was a much needed entertainment break, but still relevant. Hope you have highspeed to see and listen! BTW: congratulations are in order to Dick Cheney, who is again a grandfather! Yup his homosexual daughter and her longterm partner are now parents!! http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/sto...36-653110596574 Cheney a granddad again News Services Published: Thursday, May 24, 2007 WASHINGTON -- Vice-President Dick Cheney's daughter Mary delivered an eight-pound, six-ounce baby boy yesterday, the first child for her and her female partner of 15 years, Heather Poe. Cheney and his wife, Lynne, paid a visit to their newest grandchild -- Samuel David Cheney -- a few hours after the birth. Mary Cheney's decision to become pregnant and raise a child with Poe was criticized in some conservative circles. For instance, James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, asserted that children need to be reared by heterosexual married couples. (Boo,boo to Dr Dobson, myob!!!)good for them and the Cheney's, I may not give him much credit for a number of things, but, it's good to see they stand by their daughter, and will extend that to their grandchild. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
betsy Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 sorry for hijacking the thread, but the song, was a much needed entertainment break, but still relevant.Hope you have highspeed to see and listen! This is like saying, "honey Im sorry to hurt you." Then he proceeds to whack his wife anyway. Anyway, is Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter an ordained Minister in a church? Does she wants to be ordained? Are this lesbian couple wanting to get married in a Christian church....or have they been married in a Christian church and then the church decided to take their vows back? Are they being kicked out of a church? What's the connection??? Quote
M.Dancer Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 Because it shows how this particular religion is systemically promoting hatred and oppression towards homosexuals. It's just another chapter in the history of religious ignorance and intolerance. Yes of course, by ordaining gay priests and performing same sex blessings and debating same in a civil fashion they are promoting hate...... This horse is dead, take it away...... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 I'm not starting a hate thread. Baloney. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
kuzadd Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 sorry for hijacking the thread, but the song, was a much needed entertainment break, but still relevant. Hope you have highspeed to see and listen! This is like saying, "honey Im sorry to hurt you." Then he proceeds to whack his wife anyway. Anyway, is Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter an ordained Minister in a church? Does she wants to be ordained? Are this lesbian couple wanting to get married in a Christian church....or have they been married in a Christian church and then the church decided to take their vows back? Are they being kicked out of a church? What's the connection??? your analogy is absolutely ridiculous! a comic relief song compares to abuse???? okay?????? Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
betsy Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 your analogy is absolutely ridiculous!a comic relief song compares to abuse???? okay?????? I meant your, "I'm sorry for hijacking this thread." And then you preceeded to hijack it anyway. Just so to remind you about one of the rules: POSTING CONTENT It is also important that you stay on topic and keep the discussion focused. If the thread begins to wonder off into a new topic area, start a new thread and continue the discussion under the new thread. If you feel a thread is being watered down with too many different topic areas and you do not want to start the new thread yourself, feel free to contact the Admin and request a new thread. Hence I'm asking you: what's the connection with Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter to this topic. I'm not too familiar about Cheney's family and their story....so, is there a connection to the discussion at hand? If so, can you explain? Quote
kuzadd Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 (edited) I meant your, "I'm sorry for hijacking this thread." And then you preceeded to hijack it anyway.Just so to remind you about one of the rules: POSTING CONTENT It is also important that you stay on topic and keep the discussion focused. If the thread begins to wonder off into a new topic area, start a new thread and continue the discussion under the new thread. If you feel a thread is being watered down with too many different topic areas and you do not want to start the new thread yourself, feel free to contact the Admin and request a new thread. Hence I'm asking you: what's the connection with Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter to this topic. I'm not too familiar about Cheney's family and their story....so, is there a connection to the discussion at hand? If so, can you explain? hmmmm? so you adhere to that always, do you? Or is this some new found vigilanteism? BTW: comparing ,posting on a forum slightly off topic, to wife beating, still over the top! in light of the fact this thread had already wondered into the 'homosexual love' is a sin. "In the Bible it is said that for one man to lie with another man in the same way he lies with a woman is a sin. So according to many churches it is a sin. And if a certain churches official position on the subject is that homosexual acts are sins then that is their business." though this thread appears to be about a changed policy. If it was a sin to begin with, then why ordain them? which was why I posted the comedic song about how silly this all is, and then thought I would actually give Dick Cheney a high five, while I was at it. okay? Edited May 28, 2007 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
gc1765 Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 Once again QC, most members of PETA probably don't want to hunt seals, but don't you think it would be odd of them to pick a seal hunter to chair their organization, when it goes against one of their tenets. Does that mean we are not allowed to be critical of PETA for being against the seal hunt? Are we not allowed to question why PETA even cares about seal hunting in the first place? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
M.Dancer Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 Once again QC, most members of PETA probably don't want to hunt seals, but don't you think it would be odd of them to pick a seal hunter to chair their organization, when it goes against one of their tenets. Does that mean we are not allowed to be critical of PETA for being against the seal hunt? Are we not allowed to question why PETA even cares about seal hunting in the first place? Surely you aren't suggesting that the Anglican churches don't allow questioning? I bet there are far more open to dissent than PETA. At least you can be gay and wear fur at St Stephen's........ Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
gc1765 Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 Surely you aren't suggesting that the Anglican churches don't allow questioning? I bet there are far more open to dissent than PETA. No, I'm suggesting there are people on this forum who, it appears to me, don't think that the church should be questioned on this issue...unless of course those people wish to correct me and state that it's perfectly acceptable for people on this message board to question why the church might discriminate against gays. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
M.Dancer Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 Surely you aren't suggesting that the Anglican churches don't allow questioning? I bet there are far more open to dissent than PETA. No, I'm suggesting there are people on this forum who, it appears to me, don't think that the church should be questioned on this issue...unless of course those people wish to correct me and state that it's perfectly acceptable for people on this message board to question why the church might discriminate against gays. I think it's up to the church to question the church. As far as the church discriminating against gays....this is the same church that ordains them and blesses them. Their track record scores far better in that field than most. The reasons why some might point fingers at them is disingenuous at best. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
gc1765 Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 I think it's up to the church to question the church. Then shouldn't it be up to homosexuals to question homosexuality? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
M.Dancer Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 I think it's up to the church to question the church. Then shouldn't it be up to homosexuals to question homosexuality? Why not? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
cybercoma Posted May 29, 2007 Author Report Posted May 29, 2007 I think it's up to the church to question the church. Then shouldn't it be up to homosexuals to question homosexuality? It should be up to criminals to question criminals, too. Quote
jefferiah Posted May 30, 2007 Report Posted May 30, 2007 Once again QC, most members of PETA probably don't want to hunt seals, but don't you think it would be odd of them to pick a seal hunter to chair their organization, when it goes against one of their tenets. Does that mean we are not allowed to be critical of PETA for being against the seal hunt? Are we not allowed to question why PETA even cares about seal hunting in the first place? Of course not. I am no PETA fan. I disagree with them all the time. But I am not a member. Criticizing their position on the seal hunt is one thing. Criticizing the fact that they probably would not choose a seal hunter as a chairperson when it is against their tenets would be kind of strange though, don't you think. What else would you expect from a group who opposes the seal hunt? Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
jefferiah Posted May 30, 2007 Report Posted May 30, 2007 No one is saying you have to agree with PETA, but if you don't like their position on things you dont have to join. Simple as that. I am not joining anytime soon. Would you expect an anti abortion group to be made of members who go around performing abortions? That doenst mean you cant criticize an abortion group or anti abortion group, but why would you get up in arms if they have people who support the groups position as leaders. Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
gc1765 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Posted May 30, 2007 Criticizing the fact that they probably would not choose a seal hunter as a chairperson when it is against their tenets would be kind of strange though, don't you think. Yes the church can decide who they want as a chairperson. My point is, this is an internet message board where people share opinions, and my opinion is it's pretty stupid to choose a chairperson based on sexuality. Therefore, for me to post my opinion stating that the church should choose their chairperson based on sexuality would be kind of strange, don't you think? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
jefferiah Posted May 30, 2007 Report Posted May 30, 2007 Criticizing the fact that they probably would not choose a seal hunter as a chairperson when it is against their tenets would be kind of strange though, don't you think. Yes the church can decide who they want as a chairperson. My point is, this is an internet message board where people share opinions, and my opinion is it's pretty stupid to choose a chairperson based on sexuality. Therefore, for me to post my opinion stating that the church should choose their chairperson based on sexuality would be kind of strange, don't you think? No I dont think it is strange at all. If the Church holds to the position that homosexuals acts are sins, then why would that church promote practicing homosexuals as leaders. It would make as much sense as PETA promoting seal hunters. I dont agree with Peta, but I am not going to get up in arms about how they discriminate against seal hunters when it comes time to choose a leader. Do you think seal hunters are making a human rights case about it? Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
betsy Posted June 2, 2007 Report Posted June 2, 2007 Cybercoma,A child comes to a group of children playing their own game of hide and seek. "Can I play?" asks this child. "Yes!" the children answer. Not long after that, this lone child starts changing the rules of the game. The other kids get upset....and why shouldn't they? They had a good game going. They were nice to let this kid join in. And now this kid is calling the shots and starts messing it up. So I say to this little trouble-maker: if you don't like the way they're playing, and they don't like the changes you're making....why don't you go and play by yourself....and make up your own game? What I'd like to know is why would these homosexuals, who obviously do not believe in the teachings of this religion insist to impose themselves? Why is it so important to join a group who practice what goes against your own belief? No one is stopping these homosexuals from forming their own religion, and have their own interpretation of the bible. So why don't they? For imposing their own interpretation, and distorting what most true Christians believe....what do these homosexuals hope to gain? I really would like to know what answers the other side would give to these questions. Cybercoma, QC, Kuzadd etc., Isn't it only being objective to try to understand? Four questions waiting to be answered. Please, do not answer the questions with questions. Just give me your views about these. I hope you guys aren't really deliberately ignoring this questions. Silence on these important questions could only mean that you cannot justfy the impositions of these homosexuals. In other words, you're stumped? Quote
cybercoma Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Posted June 2, 2007 I thought your questions were rhetorical and ignorant, that's why I didn't respond. They make no sense given the situation. These homosexuals are BISHOPS in the church. They're not arguing to get in and try to change the rules. They were accepted by the Church, which is now turning around and chastising them for something that was out in the open when they were made Bishops by the church. Now the church is turning around and shaking their finger at these men, who have done nothing wrong. The church is ostracizing these men because the church holds supernatural beliefs that have no basis on reality. These men were accepted, but now they're not, why is that? It's against the church's teachings and rules. "Niggers" and "kikes" can't get into the KKK either, so it's difficult to see how kicking "fags" out of the church is any different or any more acceptable. Quote
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