Can manufacturers compete if based in Canada?

[August1991]

We do have a problem in this country with manufacturing and I hear your complaints,but I don't hear your solutions.

150,000 lost jobs since 2002,what's your answer to bringing them back....bitchin' isn't going to convince anyone to come here or stay here. Solutions will,what's yours?

What's the point in having a job that does not create value?

It is a good thing if Canada loses jobs. In a sense, we should all want our jobs eliminated and either done more cheaply by a foreigner or more cheaply by a machine. Canada's future growth depends on the elimination of jobs.

We want value-adding jobs - jobs that create the greatest value added.

We do have a problem in this country with manufacturing and I hear your complaints,but I don't hear your solutions.

150,000 lost jobs since 2002,what's your answer to bringing them back....bitchin' isn't going to convince anyone to come here or stay here. Solutions will,what's yours?

As cybercoma states, one way is...

allowing companies to pay employees pennies a day.

Another way would be to abolish unions.

The 'market' is basically set up so that the greatest consumers are not also the greatest producers (of any specific commodity, generally speaking).

Thelonious, do you care whether the Sun's employees are unionized or not? Does it matter that teh Sun provides us with light and heat for free?

We benefit from such low cost energy and we benefit too if China charges us little for what it sends us.

Now then, if your concern is about humanity, I suggest you direct your concern at Sudan rather than China.

-----

Reading through this thread, I find so much nonsense. China is like the Sun or a new technology. Computers have changed the way we work. Banks are not going to get rid of their ATMs and go back to tellers.

[Leafless]

I don't know that you can ask people to buy made in Canada manufacturing when you yourself have an inconsistent approach to it.

I am basically referring to imported smaller items, including clothing, which is pretty much the norm considering the stock most stores carry.

But when it comes to major appliances, air-conditioners, furnaces, automobiles and the like, I purchase Canadian or U.S.

I looked at North American models for my last new car purchase in 2005. They were all found wanting in every area.

I think the same way about imports.

Everything in an import, appears to be well made but if you check individual components like the frame for your seats or the quality of fabric, quality of sheet metal etc., everything on the import is a couple of gauges lighter and the vehicles are generally small and pricey with aftermarket parts also very expensive.

In this world you get what you pay for. I like a larger vehicle myself for safety concerns and the plain extra room. I find North American vehicles well priced.

If you consider what you paid for a vehicle in the 80's, compared to what a dollar is worth to-day, a North American vehicle is a real bargain, but few people see it that way when straddled with high mortgages and taxes, energy cost etc.

[jdobbin]

I think the same way about imports.

Everything in an import, appears to be well made but if you check individual components like the frame for your seats or the quality of fabric, quality of sheet metal etc., everything on the import is a couple of gauges lighter and the vehicles are generally small and pricey with aftermarket parts also very expensive.

In this world you get what you pay for. I like a larger vehicle myself for safety concerns and the plain extra room. I find North American vehicles well priced.

If you consider what you paid for a vehicle in the 80's, compared to what a dollar is worth to-day, a North American vehicle is a real bargain, but few people see it that way when straddled with high mortgages and taxes, energy cost etc.

Consumer Reports which rates cars on all aspects that you mention finds most North American cars fall below quality and price.

[Leafless]

Consumer Reports which rates cars on all aspects that you mention finds most North American cars to fall below quality and price.

I know how people drive and I know how many people maintain their vehicles.

Many people, it is 'pedal to the metal', leaving every stop light or sign, fly over rough roads, negotiate tight turns like their vehicle is a play thing and many drive their vehicle as if it is a play toy. Many have rarely lifted the hood on their vehicle to do the scheduled maintenance.

These are the people that cry the blues to places like Consumer Reports with their never ending list of component failures caused primarily by abuse and neglect.

North American vehicles seem to be below par because their are more of them on the road.

I have driven many North American built vehicles and have never had internal engine or internal transmission problems with any of them.

[White Doors]

Saturn Aura (sp?) is car of the year.

That is a domestic manufacturer.

The myth of Japanese built cars being superior in quality to NA one's had some merit before but is largely just a marketing tool used now to justify their higher prices for what you get.

[M.Dancer]

Saturn Aura (sp?) is car of the year.

That is a domestic manufacturer.

The myth of Japanese built cars being superior in quality to NA one's had some merit before but is largely just a marketing tool used now to justify their higher prices for what you get.

Myth?

2006

AP) For the first time, all the top picks in Consumer Reports' annual vehicle guide are made by Japanese automakers.

The Honda Civic is the magazine's top small sedan, while the Toyota Highlander Hybrid is the top mid-sized sport utility vehicle, according to results released Wednesday. Vehicles from Nissan Motor Co. and Subaru, a division of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., round out the top picks in 10 categories.

http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_060234850.html

2007

For the second time in 10 years, all the magazine's top-10 picks are Japanese nameplates. This year's list includes five new models: the Toyota RAV4, Infiniti G35, Toyota Sienna, Mazda MX-5 Miata and the Honda Fit.

http://www.driversdrive.com/cgi-bin/ddblog.pl?ddblog=302071

Ironic that you should mention marketing....since one of the reasons Japanese autos sell and score so well is that they pay attention to marketing, namely delivering autos that are in demand by the public, instead of Detroit telling the market what they should want.

[White Doors]

Saturn Aura (sp?) is car of the year.

That is a domestic manufacturer.

The myth of Japanese built cars being superior in quality to NA one's had some merit before but is largely just a marketing tool used now to justify their higher prices for what you get.

Myth?

2006

AP) For the first time, all the top picks in Consumer Reports' annual vehicle guide are made by Japanese automakers.

The Honda Civic is the magazine's top small sedan, while the Toyota Highlander Hybrid is the top mid-sized sport utility vehicle, according to results released Wednesday. Vehicles from Nissan Motor Co. and Subaru, a division of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., round out the top picks in 10 categories.

http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_060234850.html

2007

For the second time in 10 years, all the magazine's top-10 picks are Japanese nameplates. This year's list includes five new models: the Toyota RAV4, Infiniti G35, Toyota Sienna, Mazda MX-5 Miata and the Honda Fit.

http://www.driversdrive.com/cgi-bin/ddblog.pl?ddblog=302071

Ironic that you should mention marketing....since one of the reasons Japanese autos sell and score so well is that they pay attention to marketing, namely delivering autos that are in demand by the public, instead of Detroit telling the market what they should want.

I think the Japanese manufacturers drove improvements in the Big 3.

Certainly this link proves this point. The notion that japanese cars are by and large more reliable the NA buitl cars is largely a myth now.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/01/23/am...cars/index.html

If you believe J.D. Power's surveys, the story for American luxury brands -- Lincoln, Cadillac and Buick -- is particularly striking.

Of those three brands Lincoln performed best in the 2005 survey, ranking third of all brands -- behind Lexus, as always, and Porsche -- with a score of 151. Buick was fourth overall with a score of 163, matching a score that earned Lexus a top ranking just two years earlier. Cadillac was fifth with 175 problems per 100 vehicles.

In fact, Lincoln, Cadillac and Buick all out-scored Toyota's Toyota-branded and Honda's Honda-branded vehicles in the same 2005 J.D. Powers survey.

See the table for the details but, as it turns out, a lot of Japanese brands -- everything from Mazda right down to Isuzu -- came off worse in the survey than the worst GM brand, Pontiac.

[M.Dancer]

I think the Japanese manufacturers drove improvements in the Big 3.

Certainly this link proves this point. The notion that japanese cars are by and large more reliable the NA buitl cars is largely a myth now.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/01/23/am...cars/index.html

If you believe J.D. Power's surveys, the story for American luxury brands -- Lincoln, Cadillac and Buick -- is particularly striking.

Of those three brands Lincoln performed best in the 2005 survey, ranking third of all brands -- behind Lexus, as always, and Porsche -- with a score of 151. Buick was fourth overall with a score of 163, matching a score that earned Lexus a top ranking just two years earlier. Cadillac was fifth with 175 problems per 100 vehicles.

In fact, Lincoln, Cadillac and Buick all out-scored Toyota's Toyota-branded and Honda's Honda-branded vehicles in the same 2005 J.D. Powers survey.

See the table for the details but, as it turns out, a lot of Japanese brands -- everything from Mazda right down to Isuzu -- came off worse in the survey than the worst GM brand, Pontiac.

Ahem...luxury cars......which represents about 14% of the US market.....even less for Canada.....

[White Doors]

Ahem...luxury cars......which represents about 14% of the US market.....even less for Canada.....

But even Ford and Chevrolet brands were better than Mazda which I think alot of people would find surprising.

[M.Dancer]

Ahem...luxury cars......which represents about 14% of the US market.....even less for Canada.....

But even Ford and Chevrolet brands were better than Mazda which I think alot of people would find surprising.

I think a lot of people would be surprised that Mazda had a luxury car.....

[guyser]

I think a lot of people would be surprised that Mazda had a luxury car.....

Mazda did have the Best New Luxury Car. It was the Millenia.

In 1998.

[White Doors]

Ahem...luxury cars......which represents about 14% of the US market.....even less for Canada.....

But even Ford and Chevrolet brands were better than Mazda which I think alot of people would find surprising.

I think a lot of people would be surprised that Mazda had a luxury car.....

Did you look at the chart?

Ford is the brand, rated higher than mazda. the luxury brand of ford manufactured cars would be Lincoln.

have a look at the link I posted.

Also, Consumer reports says 'perceived quality' as opposed to my posting by JD powers which reports ACTUAL reliability.

Perception vs. actual which was kinda my point in the first place.

[jdobbin]

These are the people that cry the blues to places like Consumer Reports with their never ending list of component failures caused primarily by abuse and neglect.

North American vehicles seem to be below par because their are more of them on the road.

I have driven many North American built vehicles and have never had internal engine or internal transmission problems with any of them.

Um, Consumer Reports tests these cars themselves. Insurance companies test these cars. They fall below standards for safety, for mileage, for style, for comfort and for price as well as value. Subscribers list problems as they come up.

North American vehicles are not below par because there are more of them on the road. They are below par because they are poorly designed and built.

[jdobbin]

Saturn Aura (sp?) is car of the year.

That is a domestic manufacturer.

The myth of Japanese built cars being superior in quality to NA one's had some merit before but is largely just a marketing tool used now to justify their higher prices for what you get.

It isn't just a marketing tool. It is what Consumer Reports say.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2007...top_picks_.html

Consumer Reports Top Picks for 2007

* Fun To Drive: Mazda MX-5 Miata

* Small SUV: Toyota RAV4

* Small Sedan: Honda Civic

* Family Sedan: Honda Accord

* Minivan: Toyota Sienna

* Luxury Sedan: Infiniti M45

* Midsized SUV: Toyota Highlander Hybrid

* Green Car: Toyota Prius

* Upscale sedan: Infiniti G35

[jdobbin]

Also, Consumer reports says 'perceived quality' as opposed to my posting by JD powers which reports ACTUAL reliability.

Perception vs. actual which was kinda my point in the first place.

Both rely on subscribers telling then what has happened with their cars.

[Leafless]

[

Um, Consumer Reports tests these cars themselves. Insurance companies test these cars. They fall below standards for safety, for mileage, for style, for comfort and for price as well as value. Subscribers list problems as they come up.

North American vehicles are not below par because there are more of them on the road. They are below par because they are poorly designed and built.

Oh, really!

Then check out CR's 2007 report.

I have never bought a copy of Consumer Reports in my or any other similar magazine in my life and I am the judge of the cars I buy.

Although I have purchased new vehicles, my rule of thumb, always buy a car at least four years old with a maximum of 80k or under. You automatically know which ones are chronic lemons by simple hearsay and local media reports or ask a local mechanic which are the troublesome vehicles. He will probably tell you, 'they all are', but some are a little more honest than others.

If you are mechanically/electronically inclined check out the vehicles that are easiest and less costly to repair concerning accessibility to various components, parts cost, and are not over crowded with devices that make repairs difficult.

Buy a car or truck you see the most of on roads and highways and you can rest assured that these are the vehicles that deliver the most for your dollar.

A lot of times a vehicle rated as an underdog is a super buy and delivers reliability and performance but could be a little hard on energy cost along with a few minor minor defects or whatever.

[jdobbin]

Oh, really!

Then check out CR's 2007 report.

I have never bought a copy of Consumer Reports in my or any other similar magazine in my life and I am the judge of the cars I buy.

Although I have purchased new vehicles, my rule of thumb, always buy a car at least four years old with a maximum of 80k or under. You automatically know which ones are chronic lemons by simple hearsay and local media reports or ask a local mechanic which are the troublesome vehicles. He will probably tell you, 'they all are', but some are a little more honest than others.

If you are mechanically/electronically inclined check out the vehicles that are easiest and less costly to repair concerning accessibility to various components, parts cost, and are not over crowded with devices that make repairs difficult.

Buy a car or truck you see the most of on roads and highways and you can rest assured that these are the vehicles that deliver the most for your dollar.

A lot of times a vehicle rated as an underdog is a super buy and delivers reliability and performance but could be a little hard on energy cost along with a few minor minor defects or whatever.

I think I have listed Consumer Reports top picks. None are North American.

I'm glad you are happy with your North American car. I tried. I really did. I didn't like what I read, what I saw, what I drove and what people were telling me about their cars North American cars. I eventually bought Japanese.

[Leafless]

I'm glad you are happy with your North American car. I tried. I really did. I didn't like what I read, what I saw, what I drove and what people were telling me about their cars North American cars. I eventually bought Japanese.

I have always been happy with my North American built vehicles.

And despite what you think, (relating to your dependency on Consumer Reports) all new North American built vehicles must meet federal safety and emission standards and come with a warranty.

So, in fact all North American vehicles have been thoroughly professionally tested and you don't have to worry about second opinions from the likes of car jocks from Consumer Reports and others, whose opinion might not be the opinion of others.

[jdobbin]

I have always been happy with my North American built vehicles.

And despite what you think, (relating to your dependency on Consumer Reports) all new North American built vehicles must meet federal safety and emission standards and come with a warranty.

So, in fact all North American vehicles have been thoroughly professionally tested and you don't have to worry about second opinions from the likes of car jocks from Consumer Reports and others, whose opinion might not be the opinion of others.

If Consumer Reports were all car jocks, I don't think it would be as important as it has become. They rate many consumer products with a keen eye for detail.

When the find a good North American model such as in the luxury car market, they report it. Sadly, for small cars, sedans and in mini-vans, North American vehicles have a variety of problems that even Detroit has admitted they need to overcome.

[Vancouver King]

Oh, really!

Then check out CR's 2007 report.

I have never bought a copy of Consumer Reports in my or any other similar magazine in my life and I am the judge of the cars I buy.

Although I have purchased new vehicles, my rule of thumb, always buy a car at least four years old with a maximum of 80k or under. You automatically know which ones are chronic lemons by simple hearsay and local media reports or ask a local mechanic which are the troublesome vehicles. He will probably tell you, 'they all are', but some are a little more honest than others.

If you are mechanically/electronically inclined check out the vehicles that are easiest and less costly to repair concerning accessibility to various components, parts cost, and are not over crowded with devices that make repairs difficult.

Buy a car or truck you see the most of on roads and highways and you can rest assured that these are the vehicles that deliver the most for your dollar.

A lot of times a vehicle rated as an underdog is a super buy and delivers reliability and performance but could be a little hard on energy cost along with a few minor minor defects or whatever.

I think I have listed Consumer Reports top picks. None are North American.

I'm glad you are happy with your North American car. I tried. I really did. I didn't like what I read, what I saw, what I drove and what people were telling me about their cars North American cars. I eventually bought Japanese.

If Japanese vehicles are better engineered and designed why is that they can't make a dent in N. American truck sales? In stark contrast to the success of their car sales, their attempts over 35 years to design, build and market light trucks that drivers actually want, could accurately be described as a disaster.

Why is it Toyota trucks are few and far between on consturction sites - if they are so well built and designed construction companies would be forgoing significant profits in not buying fleets of them.

[geoffrey]

If Japanese vehicles are better engineered and designed why is that they can't make a dent in N. American truck sales? In stark contrast to the success of their car sales, their attempts over 35 years to design, build and market light trucks that drivers actually want, could accurately be described as a disaster.

Hicks drive trucks, the same types that only buy domestic beers.

[jdobbin]

If Japanese vehicles are better engineered and designed why is that they can't make a dent in N. American truck sales? In stark contrast to the success of their car sales, their attempts over 35 years to design, build and market light trucks that drivers actually want, could accurately be described as a disaster.

Why is it Toyota trucks are few and far between on consturction sites - if they are so well built and designed construction companies would be forgoing significant profits in not buying fleets of them.

I believe that Japanese automakers have targeted specific areas and made their way to the top in each over time. Minivans used to the domain of American builders. No more. I fully expect trucks will be the next to fall unless there is some sort of miracle in Detroit. Honda and Toyota have already entered the top 5.

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/automoti...ucks/index.html

[Canuck E Stan]

If Consumer Reports were all car jocks, I don't think it would be as important as it has become. They rate many consumer products with a keen eye for detail.

When the find a good North American model such as in the luxury car market, they report it. Sadly, for small cars, sedans and in mini-vans, North American vehicles have a variety of problems that even Detroit has admitted they need to overcome.

The best source for information about autos is Phil Edmonston's Lemon Aid

The best way to pick a car is based on it's past history.

Generally the first three years of a car's life is repair free, after that, the real breakdowns occur. Lemon Aid tells it like it is, including the "hidden" warranty info. Worth the purchase.

Consumer's Report tends to evaluate newer autos and sets their stats from reports from those who send them info,but they do give info on used cars(best and worse) and this is type of information a buyer should look when considering a vehicle,new or used.Consumer Reports rates reliability of 1998-2005 models

A auto division may make the best list and the worst list with two different models(e.g. Lincoln) and the best way to find out about a vehicle's future repair costs is to ask the dealer a simple question like how much to change the spark plugs in a car? Or how often do you have to change the timing belt and how much? These questions in some cases will be real eye opener to a buyer, and the cost can be quite different.

Some cars need three hours to change the plugs(at $100.an hour and $30 a plug) and a bill of $900 for a timing belt change that is required by the manufacturer to be changed every 100 k for warranty is the norm for many cars.Not something the back yard mechanic would want to do.

I believe the north american cars tend to be engineered for easier repair than the foreign models.

[jdobbin]

I believe the north american cars tend to be engineered for easier repair than the foreign models.

Once again Consumer Reports are filled with cars from Detroit that are on the bad bets list. There are not many of those cars that I would be in the market for. And this according to the link you gave.

Perhaps if I was a cop I'd be delighted that the Crown Victoria was a good bet but I don't think I'd want to drive one.

[Canuck E Stan]

Once again Consumer Reports are filled with cars from Detroit that are on the bad bets list. There are not many of those cars that I would be in the market for. And this according to the link you gave.

From the other link Lemon Aid

10 Biggest Auto Myths

1. You get what you pay for. No, cheaper cars are often better than luxury lemons.

2. Mercedes makes the best cars. No longer; even German drivers say they prefer Toyota and Lexus.

3. Hybrids are the future. Don’t bet on it; fuel economy is over-stated by half and they can fry you in an accident.

4. Saturn is a different car company. Yeah, it is a pain in Uranus.

5.Toyota and Honda have impressive reliability. No longer; Trannies, engines and sliding doors are their nemesis.

6. New cars are better than used. Only if you are a new car dealer..

7. US car companies are on the rebound. Call it a ‘dead cat bounce’ before rigor-mortis sets in.

8. You get a better deal paying cash. Only if you are from Bogota.

9. Dealers are more honest today. No, they just cheat you differently.

10. Cars are better made today. Partly, yes. Bodies are safer and more durable; engines and transmissions are less reliable and costlier to fix.

Honda and Toyota are no longer what they were, and Toyota's quality is now questionable as Lemon Aid states.

Is Toyota's Quality Slipping?

During the period of the Strategic Vision value survey, Toyota car and truck buyers complained to ConsumerAffairs.Com of oil leaks, poor workmanship,design, strange odors and gasoline mileage as the automaker dealt with a surge in recalls attributed to cost-cutting efforts that use the same parts on more models.