U.S. healthcare expensive, inefficient

[Catchme]

Well, here is a heads up for those dominionists and others who have been brainwashed into thinking the USA health care system is better than universal health care. Yes, Canadian health care is in a mess and that is because of Paul Martin and now Stephen Harper's efforts to destroy it to better assist the deep integration between the USA and Canada.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Americans get the poorest health care and yet pay the most compared to five other rich countries, according to a report released on Tuesday.

Germany, Britain, Australia and Canada all provide better care for less money, the Commonwealth Fund report found.

...Per capita health spending in the United States in 2004 was $6,102, twice that of Germany, which spent $3,005. Canada spent $3,165, New Zealand $2,083 and Australia $2,876, while Britain spent $2,546 per person.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?alias=us-...&modsrc=reuters

[White Doors]

Dominionists?

You mean like John A. McDonald?

[scribblet]

Please enlighten us on how Harper is intent on destroying our health care system, please quote policy and legislation.

[White Doors]

Yes, Canadian health care is in a mess and that is because of Paul Martin and now Stephen Harper's efforts to destroy it to better assist the deep integration between the USA and Canada.

What about the charter? Isn't the Charter of rights and freedom's the real culprit?

LOL

I'd like to have a chocie in healthcare. I don't want the USA's system, but I would like (and am constitutionally entitled to) a choice in healthcare. Kind of like Switzerland's healthcare system.

There are other models that are better than ours. I want universal coverage for all and choice for me to go to a private provider should I want.

And it's coming wether you like it or not.

[Catchme]

scribblet, don't have to cite a thing, need only to indicate that Harper broke one of his 5 promises. Healthcare fixing. He has done nothing, thereby is insurring Martin's gutting of it remains.

white doors, lol, trying to tie the charter of rights into this topic is unbelievable and hilarious.

dominionists as in the religious theo-cons, nice try at deflecting, but no cigar.

Only thing we Canadians need remember is those who say the USA's healthcare is superior are lying for their own ends.

[scribblet]

Dominionists is a new term (well a new meaning to the term) which is meant as derogatory stereotyping of a particular group of people - (Christians) for polemic reasons, and bear little resemblance to reality.

Harper is not dismantling health care in any way shape or forum, that is simply not true. Again please provide proof that he is dismantling the system.

He has given more money, its up to the provinces to handle health care, not the Feds, some provinces are trying to act on the wait times issue.

Throwing more money in the hat to try to reduce wait times means more doctors, not enough doctors is part of the bottle neck. If they had an incentive to make more money in private clinics we might get some of them back from the U.S. Our current socialistic adherence to providing everything to everybody beggars us all, as it is the major dis-incentive to productivity, and therefore prosperity.

This constant Liberal fear mongering shows one thing, that Liberals or NDP have nothing new to offer, same old same old. Better hope that Harper doesn't tax tin-foil too heavily.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Only thing we Canadians need remember is those who say the USA's healthcare is superior are lying for their own ends.

US healthcare is superior, just a lot more expensive. Hell, many US pets get better/faster health care than some Canadians, patiently waiting for their fair turn in a long line (pun intended).

[Riverwind]

US healthcare is superior, just a lot more expensive. Hell, many US pets get better/faster health care than some Canadians, patiently waiting for their fair turn in a long line (pun intended).

Many US pets get better healthcare than the average poor American. The US health system serves the rich and the upper middle class very well. It does a so-so job for the middle class but is inferior to the Canadian system (even with the waiting lists) as far as the lower middle class/poor Americans are concerned.

[bush_cheney2004]

Many US pets get better healthcare than the average poor American. The US health system serves the rich and the upper middle class very well. It does a so-so job for the middle class but is inferior to the Canadian system (even with the waiting lists) as far as the lower middle class/poor Americans are concerned.

Agreed...the American healthcare system was never designed to please Canadian objectives. The CHA still fails on a regular basis. When their ass is on the line, we know where to find them.

Actually, the poorest of Americans do quite nicely with Medicaid and state programs.

[jdobbin]

Well, here is a heads up for those dominionists and others who have been brainwashed into thinking the USA health care system is better than universal health care. Yes, Canadian health care is in a mess and that is because of Paul Martin and now Stephen Harper's efforts to destroy it to better assist the deep integration between the USA and Canada.

I wish they have a breakdown in the article of what healthcare expenses were spent on. It would be interesting to see where the money was being spent. I'd also like to see how care is judged. It is hard to see what measures they base their assessment on.

Healthcare in Canada does need improvement. I don't know if we have really seen what world options are available and how easy they are to adapt to Canadian needs.

[Catchme]

Actually, the poorest of Americans do quite nicely with Medicaid and state programs.

Actually, that is a mistruth especially when the linked to report said 45 million Americans had NO access to health care, perhaps actually reading the article would save you the embarassment of saying such a thing...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

jdobbin

Health care in Canada needs its funding back. This would be for things like; seniors and disabled continuing care and independant living programs. Plus affording smaller hospitals in rural areas the ability to have surgeries and deliver babies again. that would take a huge burden off of surgical wait lists and afford Drs the ability to live in smaller communities who are also surgeons.

They do not locate nowadays, when they used to, because they cannot keep up their surgical skills.

The discrepency in health care budget figures between Canada England, New Zealand and Austrailia for monies spent, IMV is because the area coverage is smaller. The large distances between places in Canada, means a huge additional expense to health care services.

There should have been an area coverage done in the study.

But none the less, health care costs in the USA are double Canada's and some would say we would be better off.

No, we would be better off telling those who advocate a USA health care system where to go with there stuff and nonsense.

[geoffrey]

Canadian health care is an epic failure. Why we'd adopt another poor model (the American way), I don't know.

People like Catchme are why many Canadians suffer with inadequate or substandard care today. They see either Tommy Douglas or the States. It doesn't have to be that way.

The Europeans do it better than us by leaps and bounds, let's work towards their system and away from 1960's mentality.

It doesn't work!!!!! Wake up and get over it!

[Catchme]

Apparently, universal health care works just fine in New Zealand, Austrailia and Britian and cheaper too.

Just as it did in Canada before Martin gutted transfer payments.

Perhaps you should read the link article geoffery?

An please do give us links and models in Europe that you think are superior?

[Riverwind]

Apparently, universal health care works just fine in New Zealand, Austrailia and Britian and cheaper too.

None of those countries prohibit private medical services. If people have moeny they should be able to purchase medical services in this country. Forbidding private medical services is the source of many of the problems with the current system.

[noahbody]

Apparently, universal health care works just fine in New Zealand, Austrailia and Britian and cheaper too.

Just as it did in Canada before Martin gutted transfer payments.

Perhaps you should read the link article geoffery?

An please do give us links and models in Europe that you think are superior?

In 2002, Canada was ranked 30th by the WHO; the US was ranked 38th. There is plenty of room for improvement. Why we're not better is the issue has been politicized. Martin was guilty of this being "the defender of health care." Layton is just as bad with when framing a universal/private system as Americanization. No one's ever said we should adopt the American system. It's all political b.s., expecially since every doctors office is an example of private care. Guess we've been Americanized all along.

As far as Canada/US goes, the 80% with insurance get better care, though it is more expensive due to their approach. From my experience the differences in approach are that in the US, doctors are paid to solve a problem immediately. By this I mean, they run every test possible to determine what ails you. In Canada, it's one test at a time. I think the American system is superior in that aspect. Where it fails miserably is with people without insurance who don't receive the benefits of early detection, because going to the doctor without good reason is costly. My two cents.

In my opinion this is the one issue Canada should be talking about. We've known the boomers are going to put incredible demands on our current system that can't handle it's current volume. Don't get sick.

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually, that is a mistruth especially when the linked to report said 45 million Americans had NO access to health care, perhaps actually reading the article would save you the embarassment of saying such a thing...

That's just plain ignorant....45 million Americans are not denied access to health care. My brother has never had health insurance, but received excellent care in New York after suffereing a compound leg fracture. US federal and state governments spends hundreds of BILLIONS on health care each year.

"Reading the article" is a poor substitute for reality, especially when trying to justify the shortcomings of the CHA while suffering for that long waiting list.

[bush_cheney2004]

In 2002, Canada was ranked 30th by the WHO; the US was ranked 38th. There is plenty of room for improvement. Why we're not better is the issue has been politicized. Martin was guilty of this being "the defender of health care." Layton is just as bad with when framing a universal/private system as Americanization. No one's ever said we should adopt the American system. It's all political b.s., expecially since every doctors office is an example of private care. Guess we've been Americanized all along.

Agreed...why some Canadians would choose to ignore this politicizing is beyond me. If being "better" means that all suffer on waiting lists equally then the CHA is still a failure, as those with the means to do so seek care in the US and other nations with "private" care. So called "two tiered" health care is already a reality in Canada.

[Liam]

As far as Canada/US goes, the 80% with insurance get better care, though it is more expensive due to their approach. From my experience the differences in approach are that in the US, doctors are paid to solve a problem immediately. By this I mean, they run every test possible to determine what ails you. In Canada, it's one test at a time. I think the American system is superior in that aspect. Where it fails miserably is with people without insurance who don't receive the benefits of early detection, because going to the doctor without good reason is costly. My two cents.

I think you nailed it. The 260+ million Americans enrolled in a healthcare plan get better and quicker medical service than Canadians get, though it is more expensive. (You also have to look at the costs of prescription drugs which are usually considered when determining healthcare costs. Rx's are cheaper in Canada -- pharmaceutical companies often use the US as a market where they can recoup their R&D costs, so drugs are more expensive to the US consumer.)

Sadly, for the 40+ million who are not enrolled in a healthcare system, they do not have access to routine medical exams, preventive care, etc. There are federal and state programs for them and they are never turned away from hospitals, but they get far inferior service than covered persons get.

[margrace]

...Only thing we Canadians need remember is those who say the USA's healthcare is superior are lying for their own ends.

US healthcare is superior, just a lot more expensive. Hell, many US pets get better/faster health care than some Canadians, patiently waiting for their fair turn in a long line (pun intended).

Hey what about the millions of Americans who get little or no health care at all? Everyone in Canada gets care even if they have to wait several hours for it. One of the evident things on here is that some Canadians, ones with the money, want to be like the Americans, make money by cutting health care for the rest of us.

[margrace]

Many US pets get better healthcare than the average poor American. The US health system serves the rich and the upper middle class very well. It does a so-so job for the middle class but is inferior to the Canadian system (even with the waiting lists) as far as the lower middle class/poor Americans are concerned.

Agreed...the American healthcare system was never designed to please Canadian objectives. The CHA still fails on a regular basis. When their ass is on the line, we know where to find them.

Actually, the poorest of Americans do quite nicely with Medicaid and state programs.

What about the people who have to declare bankrupcy because of health costs, what about the fact that not too long ago there was a survey that showed life expectancy of the poor and their babies was much lower than the rich Americans.

[margrace]

Well, here is a heads up for those dominionists and others who have been brainwashed into thinking the USA health care system is better than universal health care. Yes, Canadian health care is in a mess and that is because of Paul Martin and now Stephen Harper's efforts to destroy it to better assist the deep integration between the USA and Canada.

I wish they have a breakdown in the article of what healthcare expenses were spent on. It would be interesting to see where the money was being spent. I'd also like to see how care is judged. It is hard to see what measures they base their assessment on.

Healthcare in Canada does need improvement. I don't know if we have really seen what world options are available and how easy they are to adapt to Canadian needs.

I wish that an independant agency, perhaps from out of the country, would do an assesment of Hospital Boards and their spending. That to me, after having had experience of 6 hospitals from Hamilton to North Bay in the last few years needs looking into.

[Argus]

Well, here is a heads up for those dominionists and others who have been brainwashed into thinking the USA health care system is better than universal health care. Yes, Canadian health care is in a mess and that is because of Paul Martin and now Stephen Harper's efforts to destroy it to better assist the deep integration between the USA and Canada.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Americans get the poorest health care and yet pay the most compared to five other rich countries, according to a report released on Tuesday.

Germany, Britain, Australia and Canada all provide better care for less money, the Commonwealth Fund report found.

...Per capita health spending in the United States in 2004 was $6,102, twice that of Germany, which spent $3,005. Canada spent $3,165, New Zealand $2,083 and Australia $2,876, while Britain spent $2,546 per person.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?alias=us-...&modsrc=reuters

One of the grat obstacles to reforming and improving health care in Canada is people like you who insist on framing the debate as "our way" or "the evil, heartless American way". There are plenty of alternatives between total near free enterprise and near total communist style government control

[scribblet]

That's just plain ignorant....45 million Americans are not denied access to health care. My brother has never had health insurance, but received excellent care in New York after suffereing a compound leg fracture. US federal and state governments spends hundreds of BILLIONS on health care each year.

"Reading the article" is a poor substitute for reality, especially when trying to justify the shortcomings of the CHA while suffering for that long waiting list.

Is it not true, that by law, hospitals cannot turn away patients in need of emergency care, regardless of their ability to pay.

[margrace]

That's just plain ignorant....45 million Americans are not denied access to health care. My brother has never had health insurance, but received excellent care in New York after suffereing a compound leg fracture. US federal and state governments spends hundreds of BILLIONS on health care each year.

"Reading the article" is a poor substitute for reality, especially when trying to justify the shortcomings of the CHA while suffering for that long waiting list.

Is it not true, that by law, hospitals cannot turn away patients in need of emergency care, regardless of their ability to pay.

I read an article not too long ago about a very sick American, he went to the closest hospital but it was not the state hospital, it was 30 miles away and he died on his way there.

[southerncomfort]

That happens here too, also happens while waiting in emergency rooms.