RCMP Arrest Environment Canada employee

[normanchateau]

"Canadians remember the good old dark days when the Conservative government simply fired whistleblowers and public servants who did not agree with government policy," said NDP environment critic Nathan Cullen in the Commons. "Now, the government simply calls in the police and puts them in handcuffs."

but then he will never have to rely on the integrity of the civil service because his party will never for a government.

Are you suggesting that Stephane Dion supports Stephen Harper on this because Dion does expect his party to form the next government?

[Wilber]

do we want a civil service where everyone is free to act according to their own personal beliefs , which would be anarchy..... or one in which we are not free which would be, let's see ... conservatism.

The concept may be foreign to you, but.

When you take a job you do so on the understanding that there are conditions and standards of performance and behavior that must be met. Complying with them is called professionalism. If you also want to call that conservatism, I would think most conservatives would consider it a compliment.

[Wilber]

Are you suggesting that Stephane Dion supports Stephen Harper on this because Dion does expect his party to form the next government?

No, are you? My politics aren't as polarized as yours. Maybe I'm just willing to think he understands the concept better than Cullen.

[normanchateau]

Are you suggesting that Stephane Dion supports Stephen Harper on this because Dion does expect his party to form the next government?

No, are you?

No, my suggestion is that he supports the government on this because he's not a hypocrite.

[Fortunata]

The document should not have been leaked; Steve shouldn't have involved the police. It should have been handled internally as are other internal matters. Smacking a flea with a sledgehammer is so much wrong but that's this government. You gotta wonder though of the collusion of the police; nothing here has been proven not even charges laid, yet .. handcuffs? Had there even been an investigation first? Had the police interviewed people in that office and came to their own conclusion that Monaghan was guilty? Or did the police take Steve's word for it and acted upon outside influence? So many questions, so few answers.

[Wilber]

Are you suggesting that Stephane Dion supports Stephen Harper on this because Dion does expect his party to form the next government?

No, are you?

No, my suggestion is that he supports the government on this because he's not a hypocrite.

On this issue at least, I agree.

[speaker]

do we want a civil service where everyone is free to act according to their own personal beliefs , which would be anarchy..... or one in which we are not free which would be, let's see ... conservatism.

The concept may be foreign to you, but.

When you take a job you do so on the understanding that there are conditions and standards of performance and behavior that must be met. Complying with them is called professionalism. If you also want to call that conservatism, I would think most conservatives would consider it a compliment.

conditioned behaviour like that of the three monkeys, you don't see what's happening in front of you, you don't hear what's going on around you and you certainly don't talk about it. GAAAD what's wrong with people don't they know that steven wants to be elected with a majority so that he can do this to all of us.

[speaker]

When you take a job you do so on the understanding that there are conditions and standards of performance and behavior that must be met. Complying with them is called professionalism. If you also want to call that conservatism, I would think most conservatives would consider it a compliment.

conditioned behaviour like that of the three monkeys, you don't see what's happening in front of you, you don't hear what's going on around you and you certainly don't talk about it. GAAAD what's wrong with people don't they know that steven wants to be elected with a majority so that he can do this to all of us.

this is libcon at its best. what is it at its worst? Ya, I'd be proud of that.

[normanchateau]

GAAAD what's wrong with people don't they know that steven wants to be elected with a majority so that he can do this to all of us.

Even Harper can't fool all of the people all of the time. It matters not that he wants a majority. He'd have to fool far too many people into believing he's someone that he's not.

[Wilber]

conditioned behaviour like that of the three monkeys, you don't see what's happening in front of you, you don't hear what's going on around you and you certainly don't talk about it. GAAAD what's wrong with people don't they know that steven wants to be elected with a majority so that he can do this to all of us.

this is libcon at its best. what is it at its worst? Ya, I'd be proud of that.

I pity the person who may have to rely on your keeping a confidence.

[normanchateau]

this is libcon at its best.

What's libcon?

[Wilber]

The document should not have been leaked; Steve shouldn't have involved the police. It should have been handled internally as are other internal matters. Smacking a flea with a sledgehammer is so much wrong but that's this government. You gotta wonder though of the collusion of the police; nothing here has been proven not even charges laid, yet .. handcuffs? Had there even been an investigation first? Had the police interviewed people in that office and came to their own conclusion that Monaghan was guilty? Or did the police take Steve's word for it and acted upon outside influence? So many questions, so few answers.

I doubt the police took his word on it. They are the ones who have to provide the evidence to a prosecutor if charges are to be laid, not Steve. They don't like to look stupid in front of prosecutors and prosecutors definitely don't like to look stupid in front of judges.

If a law had been broken, giving it to the police was the right thing to do. That's their job. This guy is obviously glorying in the publicity and there is no way he would have kept it confidential if he had been called on it internally. Better to at least have the law on your side if it comes to a public pissing match.

And yes, perhaps a message does need to be sent to any others who may be thinking of abusing the confidence that has been entrusted in them.

[speaker]

What's libcon?

libcon is my phrase for the doublespeak of the governing party, the liberalsandconservatives,

[normanchateau]

What's libcon?

libcon is my phrase for the doublespeak of the governing party, the liberalsandconservatives,

Interesting concept. Do you view the governing party as libcons because they've abandoned fiscal conservatism

or are there other government actions or policies which deserve them being labelled in this way?

[speaker]

The liberalsandconservatives abandon fiscal conservatism whenever it suits their need. They also follow or abandon whatever ideas or predjudices that come along so long as it fits their need. Not coincidentally they have managed to hold on to power for at least the last fourty years, perhaps that is their need.

I think it's fair to say that Tommy Douglas was on the money with his black cats, white cats analogy. In reference to this discussion though, the current leader of the libcons really doesn't want things in the public until after it's law, eh? handcuffs...., just about as bad as the video of the old cop pepperspraying anti-globalization protesters in Vancouver. and so it goes, as Vonnegut would say.

[Topaz]

The guy was a contract worker and what he did right or wrong, all the government had to do was fire the guy! This look at what he leaked.... this government has plans to reduced greenhouse gases OR ARE THEY???? If Canada doesn't reduce and reach our targets, Canada get a huge fine. They are probably waiting until most of the oil sands have been removed or make it the next government problem like Bush!

[Wilber]

In reference to this discussion though, the current leader of the libcons really doesn't want things in the public until after it's law, eh? handcuffs....

You will have to explain how something that has to go before Parliament before it can become law can escape becoming public.

[Wilber]

The guy was a contract worker and what he did right or wrong, all the government had to do was fire the guy!

Easier said than done, particularly when it is someone who is looking for a fight in public. You have to show cause and what better way than to show he has abused his position and broken the law. Let the cops handle it, then you don't take a chance of getting hit with a wrongful dismissal rap.

[noahbody]

this government has plans to reduced greenhouse gases OR ARE THEY???? If Canada doesn't reduce and reach our targets, Canada get a huge fine. They are probably waiting until most of the oil sands have been removed or make it the next government problem like Bush!

Not to be a grammer hound, but you should have screamed "OR DO THEY????" Second, the oil sands do have targets. Third, oil sands aren't going to be removed for some time. Fourth, why not say "make it the next government problem like Clinton!" Fifth, better yet, why not say Chretien, since Eddie Greenberg has stated that the Chretien government had no intention of meeting Kyoto targets? Please defend the last point.

[Fortunata]

I doubt the police took his word on it. They are the ones who have to provide the evidence to a prosecutor if charges are to be laid, not Steve. They don't like to look stupid in front of prosecutors and prosecutors definitely don't like to look stupid in front of judges.

If a law had been broken, giving it to the police was the right thing to do. That's their job. This guy is obviously glorying in the publicity and there is no way he would have kept it confidential if he had been called on it internally. Better to at least have the law on your side if it comes to a public pissing match.

And yes, perhaps a message does need to be sent to any others who may be thinking of abusing the confidence that has been entrusted in them.

That's strange because we have not heard of any police presence, questioning or investigation before they all of a sudden showed up with handcuffs. Or has everyone been muzzled?

Sure, a message should be sent not to leak anything but what the government wants leaked but this is extreme as only the Steve government shows itself to be. Steve, Baird and other (self) important Ministers could have flown out to Vancouver, say, and announced that measures would be announced on what measures to take in the case of leakers.

[Michael Bluth]

Easier said than done, particularly when it is someone who is looking for a fight in public. You have to show cause and what better way than to show he has abused his position and broken the law. Let the cops handle it, then you don't take a chance of getting hit with a wrongful dismissal rap.

Exactly. This guy was definitely looking to start a fight.

Now that he is under criminal investigatioin, the burden for firing with just cause has been met.

[guyser]

Easier said than done, particularly when it is someone who is looking for a fight in public. You have to show cause and what better way than to show he has abused his position and broken the law. Let the cops handle it, then you don't take a chance of getting hit with a wrongful dismissal rap.

I have hunch that the Govt will not come out of this one ok.

Why?...it may not be theft since he had access to the papers , authorized to boot , and since it did not deprive the owner of the papers (there were copies) then the threshold may not be met. Maybe, just maybe that is why he was not charged.

And, IIRC, he was not sworn in since he was low level (news last night) it would muddy any case against him.

That all said, it means that the govt "may" have to pay this guy a princely sum to go away quietly.Thus the wrongful dissmissal suit might be his ticket to freedom 55 .

As for his agenda, no doubt about it. He may have got a bit more than he expected in the bad news dept, but he may have got some good news too.

[Michael Bluth]

And, IIRC, he was not sworn in since he was low level (news last night) it would muddy any case against him.

That all said, it means that the govt "may" have to pay this guy a princely sum to go away quietly.Thus the wrongful dissmissal suit might be his ticket to freedom 55 .

As for his agenda, no doubt about it. He may have got a bit more than he expected in the bad news dept, but he may have got some good news too.

A wrongful dismissal suit for a low level contract worker is they key to early retirement?

Talk about the lifestyles of the Rich and Anarchistic!

[guyser]

Pain and suffering. He will play that one up pretty good. Plus all the papers and TV stations had it blasted.

With jury awards, I dont think we can doubt it too much.

[capricorn]

I think Monaghan's employee status will be key in any kind of financial remedy he seeks. He was not an indeterminate (permanent) employee. He was a contract employee hired through an employment agency. Employment laws and regulations applicable to these two employee categories are much different. Is the employment agency not his agent? When you work through an agency, they retain a portion of your salary. What role, if any will that agency play in this case?

To access secret files, Monaghan would have to possess a "secret" security clearance. If he did not have a secret clearance, how did he have access to this sensitive information. This is where the bureaucracy could get into big trouble for failing to adequately protect classified information. I bet the brass in Environment Canada is conducting an internal investigation right now to determine just that.