Is God poison?

[M.Dancer]

When Church gets out on Sunday do you feel the need to get a good hiding spot with all these poisoned violent people out on the road at once? Is it that bad really? I am sure you have family who goes to Church. Are they commiting violent crimes against you. Really, seriously. Is the general Church going public launching non-stop violent attacks against you.

I hide for sure. Wont see me out on the bike Sunday morning. Have you seen the way the churchgoers drive?

All those old ladies who dont share the road.....I stay out of the way.

You must live in the booneys...most people walk to church (well, except for evangelicals who need to show off the Cads to show how loved by God they are.....)

[guyser]

When Church gets out on Sunday do you feel the need to get a good hiding spot with all these poisoned violent people out on the road at once? Is it that bad really? I am sure you have family who goes to Church. Are they commiting violent crimes against you. Really, seriously. Is the general Church going public launching non-stop violent attacks against you.

I hide for sure. Wont see me out on the bike Sunday morning. Have you seen the way the churchgoers drive?

All those old ladies who dont share the road.....I stay out of the way.

You must live in the booneys...most people walk to church (well, except for evangelicals who need to show off the Cads to show how loved by God they are.....)

Weekends only.....up north where everyone drives.The old ladies are the worst, you see them coming and get off the road. They will not yield an inch for a runner nor a biker. So if I see a small older car I move.

[Catchme]

Again, people who exploit people by using the notion of God are poison. Like the Creationists, and those who like to shove their myth dogma down the throats of others.

[White Doors]

you mean the dominionists don't you?

[Mad_Michael]

Is God Poison?

If God created the world, and the world is poisonous, then yes, obviously, the idea of God is poison.

But I'm under no delusions that the banishment of religious would make this world any less poisonous.

[White Doors]

Is God Poison?

If God created the world, and the world is poisonous, then yes, obviously, the idea of God is poison.

But I'm under no delusions that the banishment of religious would make this world any less poisonous.

Then therefore God isn't poison, humanity is.

[Mad_Michael]

Is God Poison?

If God created the world, and the world is poisonous, then yes, obviously, the idea of God is poison.

But I'm under no delusions that the banishment of religious would make this world any less poisonous.

Then therefore God isn't poison, humanity is.

There is no logic to your statement.

If God created the world and God created humans and the world and/or humans are poison, therefore God is poison.

(I do have an MA in Philosophy, I can keep up this kind of logic chopping all day)

[White Doors]

Is God Poison?

If God created the world, and the world is poisonous, then yes, obviously, the idea of God is poison.

But I'm under no delusions that the banishment of religious would make this world any less poisonous.

Then therefore God isn't poison, humanity is.

There is no logic to your statement.

If God created the world and God created humans and the world and/or humans are poison, therefore God is poison.

(I do have an MA in Philosophy, I can keep up this kind of logic chopping all day)

Logical fallacy. You are making an erroneous assumption. You are assuming that God did not give humanity free will. Interestingly, religions the world over take pains to state that their God gave humanity free will.

If I can poke hole the size of a Mac Truck in your arguments, you should protest your student loans.

[cybercoma]

How does humanity have free will if God is constantly interferring by answering prayers, creating miracles, etc?

[White Doors]

How does humanity have free will if God is constantly interferring by answering prayers, creating miracles, etc?

You do realize that there is more than one strain of religious thought?

Do you enjoy behaving like a simpleton or does it come naturally?

[cybercoma]

How does humanity have free will if God is constantly interferring by answering prayers, creating miracles, etc?

You do realize that there is more than one strain of religious thought?

Do you enjoy behaving like a simpleton or does it come naturally?

But only one can be right. So, I'm focusing on the one most people identify with and the one you espouse by saying, "God gave humanity free will," as though it were a gift.

[Mad_Michael]

Logical fallacy. You are making an erroneous assumption. You are assuming that God did not give humanity free will. Interestingly, religions the world over take pains to state that their God gave humanity free will.

Freewill doesn't save your argument. If God created the universe and humans and all possibilities, then it all belongs to God's will. You may choose what you like, but God is the one who provided the choices.

Ergo, no assumption regarding freewill was made, one way or the other. You are making the erroneous assumption that you accuse.

If I can poke hole the size of a Mac Truck in your arguments...

I should be delighted if you were to do so. I look forward to it.

[M.Dancer]

But only one can be right.

Wow....there's a lot of faith in that statement....blind faith

[M.Dancer]

How does humanity have free will if God is constantly interferring by answering prayers, creating miracles, etc?

What does the free request of God have to do with not having free will?

How does asking for miracles preclude free will?

These beliefs of your, not well thought our are they?

[Figleaf]

Then therefore God isn't poison, humanity is.

If'n we is, so is Gawd wut made us.

or if you prefer a more highbrow tone...

And humanity be poison, such must be the Creator's will.

[Figleaf]

You are making an erroneous assumption. You are assuming that God did not give humanity free will. l

MM has probably gotten to this already, but I'll just note anyway ... no, there is no fallacy there, even IF the assumption is. That is to say, even if humanity has free will, if God created us with free will and we are poison then it's still on God.

Interestingly, religions the world over take pains to state that their God gave humanity free will.

Without some concept of free agency the earthly motivations for religion are generally moot.

If I can poke hole the size of a Mac Truck in your arguments, you should protest your student loans.

Good thing you included the "If" there, I think.

[White Doors]

Freewill doesn't save your argument. If God created the universe and humans and all possibilities, then it all belongs to God's will. You may choose what you like, but God is the one who provided the choices.

Ergo, no assumption regarding freewill was made, one way or the other. You are making the erroneous assumption that you accuse.

Not logical. God giving humanity a choice, including bad one's does not make him poison.

For example, if you kidnapped a woman and kept her for years and she came to love you as she had no other psychological choice... OR you met a woman became married and lived your lives together, who's love would you rather receive?

There is more risk in the traditional way as your love could be rejected, but the rewards are better.

If there is a God, that is why I believe there is free will.

[White Doors]

MM has probably gotten to this already, but I'll just note anyway ... no, there is no fallacy there, even IF the assumption is. That is to say, even if humanity has free will, if God created us with free will and we are poison then it's still on God.

You do know the definition of free will do you not?

So, if your mother let's you out to play when she feels you are old enough and you come back with a bloody nose, it's your mothers fault?

You do realize how silly that is?

[Mad_Michael]

Freewill doesn't save your argument. If God created the universe and humans and all possibilities, then it all belongs to God's will. You may choose what you like, but God is the one who provided the choices.

Ergo, no assumption regarding freewill was made, one way or the other. You are making the erroneous assumption that you accuse.

Not logical. God giving humanity a choice, including bad one's does not make him poison.

No.

The point is, if the human world is poison (a point you agreed) then that means that if God exists, and God created the universe and all that it is in it, then God is responsible for making that poison.

As noted above, dancing on the head of the 'free will pin' will not allow God to dodge this. God is responsible for all that God creates.

For example, if you kidnapped a woman and kept her for years and she came to love you as she had no other psychological choice... OR you met a woman became married and lived your lives together, who's love would you rather receive?

Don't know, and don't care. I certainly would never kindnap anyone so your analogy strikes me as patently absurd.

There is more risk in the traditional way as your love could be rejected, but the rewards are better.

Apparently, that and a buck might buy you a cup of coffee. But it doesn't address the topic of this discussion.

Why are you trying to change the topic?

If there is a God, that is why I believe there is free will.

You are free to believe anything you like. But not one word you've stated here has any relevance to the topic under discussion.

P.S. If you are going to cite my words, I insist they be properly attributed. Given the nature of the software, you have to purposefully delete my name from the quote attribution to achieve it. Your behaviour is insulting and I'm asking you politely to stop. Otherwise, I shall have to ask you to refrain from citing my words and claiming they are anonymous.

[Mad_Michael]

MM has probably gotten to this already, but I'll just note anyway ... no, there is no fallacy there, even IF the assumption is. That is to say, even if humanity has free will, if God created us with free will and we are poison then it's still on God.

You do know the definition of free will do you not?

So, if your mother let's you out to play when she feels you are old enough and you come back with a bloody nose, it's your mothers fault?

You do realize how silly that is?

My mother doesn't claim to have created the universe and all that is in it.

[moderateamericain]

I believe in god. Ive seen the devil's work with my own eyes and if i believe in the devil, then i surely must believe in god. No atheist in foxholes.

[Mad_Michael]

No atheist in foxholes.

That is religious propaganda that has no basis in factual reality.

The largest spike in 'atheism' occured during and after WW1, notably amongst returning soldiers.

According to your propaganda theory, WW1 should have caused one of the largest increases in religious faith ever witnessed by modern humans. It didn't - quite the opposite effect.

[White Doors]

Mad Mike

P.S. If you are going to cite my words, I insist they be properly attributed. Given the nature of the software, you have to purposefully delete my name from the quote attribution to achieve it. Your behaviour is insulting and I'm asking you politely to stop. Otherwise, I shall have to ask you to refrain from citing my words and claiming they are anonymous.

you are too easily offended. In trying to trim posts in accordance to the rules of the forum I have chosen to NOT quote the whole post, thus your name get's cut off. My apologies to your sensibilities.

Why are you trying to change the topic?

I am not, merely trying to provide an analogy to free will.

If we did not have free will we would not be who we are.

I inferred that humanity can be poison, it can also be very good as well.

[moderateamericain]

No atheist in foxholes.

That is religious propaganda that has no basis in factual reality.

The largest spike in 'atheism' occured during and after WW1, notably amongst returning soldiers.

According to your propaganda theory, WW1 should have caused one of the largest increases in religious faith ever witnessed by modern humans. It didn't - quite the opposite effect.

Yeah well i can pretty much tell ya most everyone that i knew in my military days believed in god. At least those who were ever shot at. But hey, whatever you wanna think is fine by me.

[Mad_Michael]

Mad Mike

P.S. If you are going to cite my words, I insist they be properly attributed. Given the nature of the software, you have to purposefully delete my name from the quote attribution to achieve it. Your behaviour is insulting and I'm asking you politely to stop. Otherwise, I shall have to ask you to refrain from citing my words and claiming they are anonymous.

you are too easily offended. In trying to trim posts in accordance to the rules of the forum I have chosen to NOT quote the whole post, thus your name get's cut off. My apologies to your sensibilities.

My sensibilities accept your apology. But I stand by my polite request.

And yes, I am easily offended by ridicule and/or insults. This is meant to be a forum for civil discussions.

Why are you trying to change the topic?

I am not, merely trying to provide an analogy to free will.

If we did not have free will we would not be who we are.

I inferred that humanity can be poison, it can also be very good as well.

And your point about freewill has been already shown to be spurious. Freewill does not exempt God from responsibility for creation.

It doesn't matter if some humans are good and some are bad if it is asserted that God created them both, then God holds responsibility for all - good or ill.