I don't read the Toronto Sun, but where is it on the spectrum?

[Cameron]

I've moved away from news papers. My start up page is google news. It's a mix of about 4000 news feeds. You can taylor your start up page to display the feeds you want. I usually have Canadian news first, then Aviation News, World, etc. going down the list.

Aside from that. www.littlegreenfootballs.com, www.drudgereport.com, www.proudtobecanadian.com, are some of the "blogs" that I take a peak at throughout the day.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hmm. I wonder if the other posters on that forum would concur with your perspective on that. In any event, your plot was carried out against the very efforts to prevent abuses that might have eventually been successful.

Yes...I would concur with jbg's perspective, having been a member at the time and continuing through to shutdown of the defunct CBC forum site. The "filtering" bias was obvious. Several factors contributed to the sites demise, including a labor dispute (strike).

[jbg]

Hmm. I wonder if the other posters on that forum would concur with your perspective on that. In any event, your plot was carried out against the very efforts to prevent abuses that might have eventually been successful.

Yes...I would concur with jbg's perspective, having been a member at the time and continuing through to shutdown of the defunct CBC forum site. The "filtering" bias was obvious. Several factors contributed to the sites demise, including a labor dispute (strike).

I think the strike was either before or after. I don't recall a strike around March-April 2004. By the way, I sent "Figleaf" a cross-section of posts deemed not toxic enough for "filtering". I couldn't post them do to the language.

[Higgly]

If you want to know where the Sun stands, just take a look at Brian Mulroney's role at the paper LOL. I always thought that the Sun would make a good cartoon section for the Post.

The Sun tends to publish opinion in the form of what I would call news bites. It is a cynical effort to manipulate public opinion by biasing its coverage for or against anything that in any way may touch on the interests of the Conservative Party.

There is very little news in the Toronto Sun.

That having been said, we in Canada (sadly) do not have a tradition of objectivity in our print media. The latest and most glaring example is what has happened to Macleans since Whyte took over. You would think the thing is being edited by Rush Limbaugh. Canadian papers have, to a large extent, been founded by politicians and politically motivated people looking to publicize their views.

It's too bad we have so few examples of papers being run with the sole purpose of informing the public with balanced coverage. The Globe comes close, but really went off the tracks over Iraq and in fact stumbles a lot on issues related to the Middle East in general, although it does seem to be moving more towards the centre lately.

[Figleaf]

Hmm. I wonder if the other posters on that forum would concur with your perspective on that. In any event, your plot was carried out against the very efforts to prevent abuses that might have eventually been successful.

Yes...I would concur with jbg's perspective, having been a member at the time and continuing through to shutdown of the defunct CBC forum site. The "filtering" bias was obvious. Several factors contributed to the sites demise, including a labor dispute (strike).

I think the strike was either before or after. I don't recall a strike around March-April 2004. By the way, I sent "Figleaf" a cross-section of posts deemed not toxic enough for "filtering". I couldn't post them do to the language.

Actually, the text you sent me didn't have any foul language in it. You made it clear that you had redacted the material. For the record, IMO the level of 'abuse' was less than you had built it up to be.

[M.Dancer]

Canadian papers have, to a large extent, been founded by politicians and politically motivated people looking to publicize their views.

All newspapers are founded by politically motivated poeople. The first political motivation was quite radical. It was the concept of an informed population.

Show my a paper that isn't politcal and I will show you a flyer

[Higgly]

The Economist comes to mind. The International Herald Tribune is not bad.

[M.Dancer]

The Economist comes to mind. The International Herald Tribune is not bad.

The Economist is a magazine and The IHT is a consortium run by some of the most politicized papers in the world.

[jbg]

Actually, the text you sent me didn't have any foul language in it. You made it clear that you had redacted the material. For the record, IMO the level of 'abuse' was less than you had built it up to be.

Actually, it was worse.

And you don't consider suggesting that I personally die in a terror attack offensive?

[Figleaf]

Actually, the text you sent me didn't have any foul language in it. You made it clear that you had redacted the material. For the record, IMO the level of 'abuse' was less than you had built it up to be.

Actually, it was worse.

And you don't consider suggesting that I personally die in a terror attack offensive?

I have already said I don't think what you sent me was as bad as you suggested. You sent me the material privately, so I assume you wanted to keep it private for some reason. I don't think there's much point in discussing it without looking at it, so I'm going to leave it at that.

[geoffrey]

The Economist comes to mind. The International Herald Tribune is not bad.

The Economist is a magazine, so I don't know if it counts, but I actually agree... I find it highly tasteful and balanced (if your a business type anyways, I'm sure it makes Marxists sick).

[jbg]

I have already said I don't think what you sent me was as bad as you suggested. You sent me the material privately, so I assume you wanted to keep it private for some reason. I don't think there's much point in discussing it without looking at it, so I'm going to leave it at that.

I appreciate your keeping it private. In my short search of what I kept, I couldn't find the stuff with the very strong language. I kept that stuff in case whoever that creep was tried to go beyond Board warfare.

On CBC's successor board, one poster referred to another one's daughter as a "wh**e". The language was often quite free-swinging and vile on both www.cbc.ca/forums and www.freecbc.ca.

[Higgly]

The Economist is a magazine and The IHT is a consortium run by some of the most politicized papers in the world.

The Economist routinely refers to itself as a newspaper. Whatever the IHT's managerial credentials, its editorial policy is pretty balanced. Considering its audience, which is the international community of expats and world business types, I doubt it could survive if it had the same slant as, say, the NY Times....

Once upon a time I would have included a Hong Kong based Asian newspaper in this list but things have changed a bit in the last 10 years....

[M.Dancer]

The Economist is a magazine and The IHT is a consortium run by some of the most politicized papers in the world.

Considering its audience, which is the international community of expats and world business types, I doubt it could survive if it had the same slant as, say, the NY Times....

That's funny considering.......it's owned by the NYT and they carry quite a bit of their copy.....

If you don't think the IHT is political, it's just probably becaus you concur with their editorial position.

Consider their history.....

1959

The New York Herald Tribune and its European edition are sold to John Hay Whitney, then the U.S. ambassador to Britain.

[runningdog]

BuffyCat said.."Anyways - the post, the sun, the star the mop and pail are all pretty much the same IMV - none give nearly the background needed to form real opinions and all are big on propoganda. Good to scan them all, keeping in mind the narrow ownership of big media in Canada."

I agree. It would be nice if there was a neutral media outlet that would just put the news out there, bang, here it is, and let people decide for themselves what the story is. But no, both left and right publications (getting to be more and more right sided these days because of corporate mergers, unfortunately) TELL us what to think. As a result, many Canadians are losing their "critical thinking" ability.

[geoffrey]

That's because humans report the news, people with interests in the situations at hand. You can't get a neutral report as long as there is a thinking person on the other side of the article or camera.

[buffycat]

BuffyCat said.."Anyways - the post, the sun, the star the mop and pail are all pretty much the same IMV - none give nearly the background needed to form real opinions and all are big on propoganda. Good to scan them all, keeping in mind the narrow ownership of big media in Canada."

I agree. It would be nice if there was a neutral media outlet that would just put the news out there, bang, here it is, and let people decide for themselves what the story is. But no, both left and right publications (getting to be more and more right sided these days because of corporate mergers, unfortunately) TELL us what to think. As a result, many Canadians are losing their "critical thinking" ability.

Hi runningdog, I agree wholeheartedly with your above sentiments - especially the consolidation of media ownership not just in Canada but worldwide. If you don't have an independent press you have lost freedom of thought - it becomes exactly as you say - the media telling people what to think, as opposed to people learning to think on their own - ie critical thinking, questioning.

I don't watch alot of tv news, but when I am visiting my father he usually has one of the news networks droning on in the background. I am always astounded by the endless repetition of thrity second sound bites that have little to do with context of the greater situation. It's mindboggling how many inaccuracies and outright lies of ommission are committed in a four minute blub by some bubbleheaded chick with more make up that Crusty the Clown - yech.

Anyways, cheers - it's nice to see there are some Canadians who do have their critical thinking hat still firmly attached to their noggins!!

[southerncomfort]

The Star doesn't hide its left wing leanings all you have to do is read the Atkinson principles.

[Figleaf]

Journalism needs to be cleaned up. It's rotten through and through. Even leaving out media whose acknowledged purpose is polemical (e.g. Toronto Sun, FauxNews, Michael Moore), what remains is virtually worthless.

Aside from the issues of ownership concentration, the practice of journalism is a shambles. Consider:

1. There is barely a remnant of the concept of independent fact checking anymore, copy editting has died in favor of the very sketchy substitute of spell-check, and editors don't edit anymore (gods know what they actually do).

2. Journalism students are not taught to be reporters anymore ... they are taught to be 'storytellers'. And editorial departments, staffed with jumped-up senior 'storytellers', now all believe that too. It doesn't take a genius to percieve what this does to the rigor of the product.

[M.Dancer]

Journalism needs to be cleaned up. It's rotten through and through. Even leaving out media whose acknowledged purpose is polemical (e.g. Toronto Sun, FauxNews, Michael Moore), what remains is virtually worthless.

Aside from the issues of ownership concentration, the practice of journalism is a shambles. Consider:

1. There is barely a remnant of the concept of independent fact checking anymore, copy editting has died in favor of the very sketchy substitute of spell-check, and editors don't edit anymore (gods know what they actually do).

2. Journalism students are not taught to be reporters anymore ... they are taught to be 'storytellers'. And editorial departments, staffed with jumped-up senior 'storytellers', now all believe that too. It doesn't take a genius to percieve what this does to the rigor of the product.

You work for a newspaper? How are you familiar with J school of today or J school 30 years ago.....?