Why I dislike Canadian born visible minorities sometimes.

[marcinmoka]

It's more complex than that. It's about anyone who identifies with their parental culture

Granted. It's all about to what extent one takes it too.

And also after re-reading his post, I realized that mine touches more so upon actual migratory children, whereas his only on the second generation.

But it's tricky as well. In certain cases, kids feel obliged to conform to a certain idea held by the parents, which may often be clashing with that expected by their peers in Canada. And sometimes these kids feel lost. They know they are not authentic (Chinese, Indian, Italian, etc) but they do not want to disappoint their families, who might often wish they settle with a ethnically similar person, and engage in practices they deem crucial (piety, or a certain career/study field, or even trivial things such as food).

It's the conflicting expectations which are at odds, and cannot be blamed solely on the offspring.

[Keepitsimple]

Mikedavid00: You've had a rough ride on this post...better cut your losses and move on. Somebody once said "If you find that you've dug yourself into a hole - the first thing you should do is to stop digging".

[Argus]

All of this really boils down to the growing sense among many Canadians that the vast horde of immigrants we've allowed into Canada over the last decade or two is less interested in becoming Canadian, and less commited to this country than those who came before.

Give you an example. Had lunch today with a lovely young lady from Europe. Been here since she was seven. Among the comment she made was that Canada has no culture, her "home" country was much more beautiful, the people more relaxed, easygoing, sophisticated and fun, and that she'd far rather live there. Now I'm not saying that Irish lads weren't saying the same thing a century ago, but the difference is that as the number of immigrants rises in some urban centres Canadians are feeling more crowded by foreigners who express an arrogance about their own cultural background and a disdain for ours, and comenserate with that is a rise in resentment from Canadians who are justifiably proud of this country.

So when we see more and more of these foreigners, and their children being raised as foreigners (and unlike in the last century their children can make multiple trips "home" to re-acclimate themselves to their "home" culture, and can go "home" for a mate, and raise their kids in the "proud traditions" of their "homeland", for generations to come. And the rest of us are wondering - well why don't you just get out then, go back to your lovely homeland.

August doesn't care, of course, for he has no feeling for Canada beyond Quebec. But if Quebec was told it would be getting three times as many immigrants from now on, to match what Ontario and BC are getting, there'd be riots in the street.

[guyser]

So I am reading the Nat Post just now, and on page A7 is a little burb on the top of the page about immigrants.

I will pull the stats right off the page.

StatsCan says...on their first four years in Canada immigrants

- 32% said quality of life was reason for settling in CDA.

- 9% said the peaceful nature of CDA

- 84% of immigrants toi Quebec said that learning or improving English is a great idea

- 75% of immigrants to Quebec said it is important or very important to improve or learn French

-

...and for the good parts.....

75% of immigrants aged 25 - 44 employed four years after arriving.

81.8 % of national rate of employed CDN's in the same age group.

Lastly....% is refugees employed after four years?

WOW....78 %

So much for an arguement I suppose.

[marcinmoka]

And just to build on top of Guysers post, like it or not, we need immigrants to survive. We always have, and we always will.

*And we should be thankful to have the worlds most effective immigration policy in place here.*

[mikedavid00]

As for your friend, I don't think it's racism so much as it is finding someone who can relate to her.

That's laughable. Think about it.

He attends a wedding with his co-worker. No skin colour is invovled.

The tables turn a year later and he secretly invites someone else of another religion who has been working there for 2 months. The only thing in common is that they have brown skin.

That is racism in it's purest, most innocent form.

When you grow up in an immigrant family who has different expectations of you than your friends' parents have of them, then that's usually the way it goes.

Why don't you admit that these parents are xenephobic and racist?

I never had problems with parents from Lebanon (Christian), Jamaica, Jewish, Greek, Italian, Portruguese, and definiately not Irish, Scottish, English etc. Bring up our top immigrat countries (China, Inda, and Pakistan), and you will see a night and day difference in the attitudes of the families.

You rarely find visible-minorities holding on to their culture after three generations.

Have you ever been to the UK?

[mikedavid00]

And the point of this was, I was singled out for acting like a Canadian. Say Whaaa???? And some of these fools genuinely treated it like some sort of pejorative term, yet this was beyond me.

See the one person that agree's with me is himself a second gen or came here when he was younger.

[mikedavid00]

who might often wish they settle with a ethnically similar person,

Yes which is racism.

And I'm against racism. I'm for equality.

[mikedavid00]

Mikedavid00: You've had a rough ride on this post...better cut your losses and move on. Somebody once said "If you find that you've dug yourself into a hole - the first thing you should do is to stop digging".

What are you talking about.

The proof in the puding backed me up.

[mikedavid00]

So I am reading the Nat Post just now, and on page A7 is a little burb on the top of the page about immigrants.

I will pull the stats right off the page.

StatsCan says...on their first four years in Canada immigrants

- 32% said quality of life was reason for settling in CDA.

- 9% said the peaceful nature of CDA

- 84% of immigrants toi Quebec said that learning or improving English is a great idea

- 75% of immigrants to Quebec said it is important or very important to improve or learn French

-

...and for the good parts.....

75% of immigrants aged 25 - 44 employed four years after arriving.

81.8 % of national rate of employed CDN's in the same age group.

Lastly....% is refugees employed after four years?

WOW....78 %

So much for an arguement I suppose.

Don't go into numbers. I will shoot them back down and prove them cherry picked and false.

[ScottSA]

The sad fact is that when an visible immigrant culture reaches a certain critical mass, it stops integrating and becomes insular. Sure, some on the fringes move around a bit and integrate, but the great mass of such a culture contracts, organizes, and starts flexing its collective political muscle. If that doesn't work it starts looking for other ways to gain ascendency. Several immigrant populations are reaching that critical mass in Canada, among them Sikhs and Chinese. Europe's problem at the moment is that the immigrant group reaching or having already reached that critical mass is Islam. These problems can and will only get worse. I shudder at the problems we're leaving for our kids, and it's much worse because it's only going to sneak up on the naive liberals who dreamed up this mess, and they'll never figure out what went wrong...prefering as usual to make "root causes" up.

[mikedavid00]

And just to build on top of Guysers post, like it or not, we need immigrants to survive. We always have, and we always will.

Lol.

I guess you believe everything you read.

I beleive in immigration via a functioning policy. Canada does not even have a real immigration policy.

I think it was Australia that called our immigration policy 'Illogical' when they studied our system.

We'll always need skilled and unskilled labor. But our current program does not intend to fill this demand.

It strives to get 70 year olds in the country and into our hospitals as soon as possible.

Just as long as eveyrone votes Liberal in our broken and corrupt society.

*And we should be thankful to have the worlds most effective immigration policy in place here.*

Please see:

[JerrySeinfeld]

You make a good point - I often hear visible minorities (and women for that matter) openly disdaining white males with impunity - sometimes it's almost trendy and certainly accepted.

Then the very same people have a cow if you trun it around and make generalizations about other groups.

Talk about hypocrisy.

If you're against racism, it should be just as unacceptable to hear comments like "oh the place was lame - just a bunch of white people there" - which I have heard at least a few times and more than shoould ever ben accepted by a "tolerant society".

Your post will undoubtedly be knee-jerked as racist by the lemmings ni the PC crowd, bvut you raise a very interesting and valid concern about the fact that racism and sexism is accepted in our society - as long as it's not against minorities or women.

[mikedavid00]

If you're against racism, it should be just as unacceptable to hear comments like "oh the place was lame - just a bunch of white people there" - which I have heard at least a few times and more than shoould ever ben accepted by a "tolerant society".

LOL!!

YES!! That ones also a classic I can't believe I forgot it!! HEHE

[guyser]

Don't go into numbers. I will shoot them back down and prove them cherry picked and false.

I would say be my guest but I have seen your numbers in the past and how they are spinned , so dont bother.

The numbers I posted are there in black and white, short little story on the top of page A7.

What I do understand is that they do not conform to your obvious immigrantion bias, and therefore not worthy of consideration.

[guyser]

The sad fact is that when an visible immigrant culture reaches a certain critical mass, it stops integrating and becomes insular. Sure, some on the fringes move around a bit and integrate, but the great mass of such a culture contracts, organizes, and starts flexing its collective political muscle.

I think calling that a sad mistake is the mistake here.

If true, then how does one explain the Italians in Toronto. They live everywhere, involved in too many businesses to list,and virtually built this city? They are integrated ,certainly not insular. Sure there was a huge pocket of them that used to live down St Clair, but now they have moved out of there. The new place is Woodbridge but not in the same numbers. But they do not dominate any political or social agenda. They are more than giving to their neighbours , their neighbourhoods and life in general.

The same goes for Brits and Scots. They too have critical mass and have integrated quite nicely. Japanese are very much the same. There is , AFAIK, no Japanese area of Toronto. Same goes for the Chinese with the exception of the Hong Kong arrivals who were not employed here all that much and thus needed some semblance of normalcy by congregating in Markham. Only the well heeled Chinese arrivals move to Markham.The rest were scattered but some pockets do and did exist such as Kensington.

I could go on about the Portuguese , Trinidadians, and the Newfoundlanders. No wait the Nfld'ers do have a pocket they call their own. But critical mass has not been achieved.

What I think is the case is that most newly arrived immigrants want some semblance to normalcy in their daily lives. Language, food, music, all things that relax us and make the world seem ok. Tomorrow is another day and they will all have to leave and go to their jobs, surrounded by English, canuck food, coffee wagons and the ilk they are just not used to. As they age, and so go the kids, the english the child learns opens new vistas for the parents. The children can and do bridge the gap and things start to improve for the whole lot of them.

Several immigrant populations are reaching that critical mass in Canada, among them Sikhs and Chinese. Europe's problem at the moment is that the immigrant group reaching or having already reached that critical mass is Islam. These problems can and will only get worse. I shudder at the problems we're leaving for our kids, and it's much worse because it's only going to sneak up on the naive liberals who dreamed up this mess, and they'll never figure out what went wrong...prefering as usual to make "root causes" up.

I do not shudder , nor worry about the people who want to live in this country, save a few. A couple of years living free , learning that freedom comes with social and political responsibilities, and we have people who care and respect thier, and our ,country.

No worries about Islam. Thats the right being scared.

The only thing I shudder at is the right wingers who would rather run them off and deny the growth of this country. Then when their CPP runs out the govt can tell them that they should not have reduced immigration when they were in power.

[mikedavid00]

What I do understand is that they do not conform to your obvious immigrantion bias, and therefore not worthy of consideration.

No.

They are cherry picked.

Let's do the REAL numbers. Forget age 22-44 and cherry picking. Let's count the gross people coming here and see how many are working.

Ah yes, I already did that and even suprised some people on the forum who didn't care for me much.

[BornAlbertan]

It's posts like this that begin to show why multi-culturalism is a failed P.E.T. project.

I mean, ok. Fine. People get along...they live for the most part in harmony. But put aside slurs and stereotypes aside for a moment and you will still get things like:

Sihks wanted to wear daggers to school...or else crying racism (uhm...sharp or not it is a weapon...DUH!)

Jews wanting public displays of Christmas trees being taken down.

Francophones having "language police" in one province discriminating openly against anglophones and crying fould over the most minute (and even unproven) thing (why is Shane Doan being called to Parliament anyway?!)

Oh here is another one...Hudderites and drivers licenses. Not wanting their pictures on their drivers licenses because they are religiously not allowed to have their pictures taken.

I mean it is absolutely ridiculous the concessions that are expected to be made.

Those are just a few examples. Multi-culturalism works great...in theory. In theory everyone would live and let live and not be offended by the native culture of the society in which they were allowed to become part of. But alas, we live in reality in humanity.

Imagine...someone saying they were offended by a Christmas tree and being forced to take it down. Some would say, that it is their right to not have anything religious or ethnic being publicy displayed. But what if someone said the same thing about a turban? I mean, a turban is a religious symbol trotted around 24-7-365. What is the difference?

[guyser]

Time for a line item rebuttal

It's posts like this that begin to show why multi-culturalism is a failed P.E.T. project.

I mean, ok. Fine. People get along...they live for the most part in harmony. But put aside slurs and stereotypes aside for a moment and you will still get things like:

Sihks wanted to wear daggers to school...or else crying racism (uhm...sharp or not it is a weapon...DUH!)

The word is Kirpans, and they must be kept a way out of sight and sheathed. I will let M dancer explain as he did in another thread.

Jews wanting public displays of Christmas trees being taken down.

No they did not. Nobody did, not Jews not Islamics, not anyone. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Perhaps you meant religious displays in govt buildings, courthouses and the like. And they should come down, to save ourselves from your future rantings about "why is that display of Mohammed/Buddha/Candalabra in MY courthouse , when their religious days roll around.

You get the day off, whats to worry about?

Francophones having "language police" in one province discriminating openly against anglophones and crying fould over the most minute (and even unproven) thing (why is Shane Doan being called to Parliament anyway?!)

Language law say that French should be in the bigger part of the message, larger than english, not no english at all. Got to Chinatown, bet you the language of the signs is in Madarin/Cantonese ahead of English.

Imagine...someone saying they were offended by a Christmas tree and being forced to take it down. Some would say, that it is their right to not have anything religious or ethnic being publicy displayed. But what if someone said the same thing about a turban? I mean, a turban is a religious symbol trotted around 24-7-365. What is the difference?

Imagine something that will not happen. Why?

As for the Turban, as soon as our govt decide to honour Turbans by showcasing them as a religious holiday symbol placing them in buildings, I will join the fight.

A turban is worn by Sikhs as personal wear. Not funded by any govt, not funded by anyone else but the turban wearer.

[mikedavid00]

A turban is worn by Sikhs as personal wear. Not funded by any govt, not funded by anyone else but the turban wearer.

Oh Guyser.

Why are you going to make me spend the next 8 min searching for article quotes to prove you wrong.

How about this time you just take my word for it.

We fund more than the turbans, we even fund their gudwara's and schools partially. We certainly fund their turbans also.

[guyser]

Oh Guyser.

Why are you going to make me spend the next 8 min searching for article quotes to prove you wrong.

How about this time you just take my word for it.

We fund more than the turbans, we even fund their gudwara's and schools partially. We certainly fund their turbans also.

We fund catholic schools too, and shouldnt. But we dont fund Jewish schools, we dont fund madrasses, we dont lots of things.

mikedavid, I could not honestly in good conscience accept anything on word alone, unless you are a professional discussing your profession. I will have to assume you are not a professional on this subject, so if you want, take the 8 mins and do it, or dont. Thats your call .

Show me where we fund articles of clothing/religious wear ie the turban . If we do, then I want a subsidy for my broom celebrating my wiccan heritage.(j/k)

[BornAlbertan]

Why not? The people who send their kids there do so WILLINGLY by choice. Nobody forces it. If they shouldn't be funded directly....then people should be able to redirect their tax dollars from the public system to the school of their choice.

And an elephant is a pachyderm...I could give a damn what it is called. A knife is a knife. You have a cowboy's kid wearing cowboy boots, cowboy hat and a 6 inch hunting knife out of sight and sheathed...the kid will still catch hell. But it is part of his culture.

Double standard? I think so.

---------------------------------

"Jews wanting public displays of Christmas trees being taken down."

No they did not. Nobody did, not Jews not Islamics, not anyone. Sorry to burst your bubble.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...airport11m.html

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble. Sure it didn't happen in the almight Canada....but it DID happen. While he never openly insisted that they take it down, he insisted that a Jewish symbol be put up. With that I have no problem. But he did it knowing full well it would be taken down rather than open that can of worms. It was nothing more than a ploy to get what he truly wanted without making himself to look like a villain.

----------------------------------

Perhaps you meant religious displays in govt buildings, courthouses and the like. And they should come down, to save ourselves from your future rantings about "why is that display of Mohammed/Buddha/Candalabra in MY courthouse , when their religious days roll around.

My rantings? I never ranted about anything. And I have never gone to any other country and tried to change them to accomodate me.

-----------------------------------

Language law say that French should be in the bigger part of the message, larger than english, not no english at all. Got to Chinatown, bet you the language of the signs is in Madarin/Cantonese ahead of English.

Yeah....and nobody hands out fines for it either in Edmonton....how about Montreal or Quebec City?

-------------------------------------

Imagine something that will not happen. Why?

Exactly. It won't happen. Because it is open season on Christianity and everyone else is protectected under the umbrella of our b.s. so loosely worded "charter" and fear of being labelled a bigot for pointing out any double standard. A religious symbol is a religious symbol and the only ones ever attacked under the guise of "charter" law is Chritianity.

Is it too much to ask that people actually acknowledge that there is a culture clash?

[BubberMiley]

Many of the time I dislike speaking to visible minorities...

I guess my problem is that I'm against racism and prejudice.

That is just hilarious.

[mikedavid00]

We fund catholic schools too, and shouldnt. But we dont fund Jewish schools, we dont fund madrasses, we dont lots of things.

Everyone is welcome to attend a public school.

You are not welcome to attend a madresses or sikh school.

That's the fundemental difference.

mikedavid, I could not honestly in good conscience accept anything on word alone, unless you are a professional discussing your profession. I will have to assume you are not a professional on this subject, so if you want, take the 8 mins and do it, or dont. Thats your call .

Ok fine. Here are the turbans that we pay for:

http://www.sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?id=122&cat=8

http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Poli...4_76/564_76.htm

"keep the hair and beard uncut provided that it is kept neat with the hair tied in a bun and concealed under the issued turban."

And of course countless other articles but I've wasted 15 min on something to prove what anyone who lives in a Canadian big city already knows.

See couldn't you just take my word for it in the first place?

[August1991]

A quick glance through this thread leaves me with two thoughts:

First, a friend from Paris. He told me about filling out a form about his daughter. His father is Ibo and his mother Bamileke. His daughter's mother is Scottish and the father Polish. So, my friend asked, what do I check off? "What" is my daughter? Such is the modern world we live in and since it is so cheap to travel, this world is inevitable. There will be more in the future. It's unavoidable; for better or worse, Canada is part of the modern world.

Second, the posters to this forum should understand that Leftists view their anger as a simple reaction to their loss of privilege. In the past, white men ran a closed shop - a cartel. They had it good. Argus and MikeDavid, when you complain about immigrants, it just sounds like you're Canada Post (or CUPW) complaining about e-mail.