Why I dislike Canadian born visible minorities sometimes.

[sharkman]

I was not there, but when the phrase white bitch is used among other things, there is no mystery to whether it's racially motivated commentary or not. My sister is university educated and would not mistake this.

Maybe I'm seeing the glass half full, but it seems to me that humanity somehow is just not equal to the task where immigration is concerned.

I spoke of France, but much of Europe has a problem with Muslim minorities. For whatever the reasons, Jews are well hated in the ME, the Orient is VERY racist to whites, and I could go on and on. It's sad really, but true.

[mikedavid00]

Unfortunately both you and mikedavid couch these threads in some way to disquise your true feelings. We get it, we see it. Both of you do not like immigrants and want them gone . This is due, as you both put it, because the immigrant is a leech on society.

Oh Guyser. You're not going to make me spend 20 min going through old threads with me proving that immigrants use more healthcare and services and are unemployed more than the Canadian average are you?

You're not going to make me show posts of you saying that maybe we should re-work the system for our security and healthcare system after I proved myself correct.

But nah. You forget all those numbers. You just want to turn this into a wack job Lib fest.

Immigartion is needed in Canada. We need plumbers, carpenters, truck drivers, Tim Horton workers, and other low paying labor. I agree that we need non-skilled work permits that expire.

Immigration is needed.

What is NOT needed, is Jajinder Singh coming from India with his life savings, at 54 years old, wandering out of the airport not able to speak English and 're-uniting' with his family where he will use our healthcare system and not retire.

We don't need a super duper Engineer coming here we don't have the engineering jobs to give him.

We don't need religious intillectuals from Islamabad selling their propert back home, coming here with their life savings, putting a down payment on a $500k home, renting out 2 basement apartments, having 4 children, collecting social welfare for all the kids, just so we can pay his mortgage. ALl while the dude is simply not working and spending all his time at the local Mosque and writing letters to our politicians.

That is nonsense.

We need workers for jobs that that employers are willing to sponsor people once they prove that they could not hire a Canadian.

But yes. i'm soooooooo off track.

[mikedavid00]

mikedavid- aliens entering into a city with the majority on welfare and upping the crime rate. (and yes I've posted numbers and articles to back this in the past).

Yes.

I was referring to Samoli's entering Ottawa as refugees in the 80's and stand by those comments becuase they are the truth.

You have attempted to twist it around into ALL immigrants which I never once said the majority are on welfare.

So, I had a quick look and that is what I found , since you asked me to. And to be a man about it, in my search I did not find you saying outright that all immigrants are on welfare ,uneducated and leeches.

So, here you go.....Sorry about that.

THANK YOU!!

[guyser]

If some of these people are in the "sponsored " category , what are they entitled to?

Do you know?

md I have never been schooled on numbers by you. Not that I ever recall. So yes my good man, if you must , then do so.

And I must congratulate you on your " immigration is needed" admission. THat is refreshing.

[mikedavid00]

This kind of hatred can't be educated out of a kid. It's probably our schools that put it into him.

I would say it's his parents and peers that gave him his racism.

I have so many similar stories I could type a book.

[rrabbit]

Interesting debate. Its also a healthy one for this era.

Being aboriginal you're all immigrants to me! Most everyone who's migrated here in the past 500 years was a big loser in the old country who showed up on our shores with dollar signs shining in their eyes. Anybody who had a good life, was doing well in the old country, stayed there. There's nothing remarkably different in the motivations and expectations of modern immigrants.

There's still a loser immigrant's fantasy of a triumphant return home as a succesful wealthy person inherent in many, even after generations here. You can find a recent example of this generations old dream of returning home wealthy in a CIBC commercial. You've likely all seen it. It ends with the line "Tuscany or Provence?" I'm fairly certain this "dream" of plush retirement outside the country in some fabled old European capital is still a common aspiration among white Canadians. CIBC wouldn't play into it if it weren't populist.

Whats up with everyone suddenly being Celtic when River Dance is in town or suddenly Greek when "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" was playing?

Or how about during the World Cup of Soccer when all these Canadians are cheering for and identifying with "their" team, Irish, Italian, Jammaican, whatever. Real Canadians would cheer for and identify with the Canadian team!

There's more than a little tongue in cheek in the above, so don't get your panties in a bunch. Those white Canadians who cheer for Canadian teams and plan to stay here for the rest of the lives and deal with the problems along with the rest of us can totally ignore the above. Its not aimed at them.

Just an additional thought here. What is the Canadian cultural identity? It seems every time we want to showcase uniqely Canadian culture to visiting dignitaries a troup of pow wow dancers is hauled off the nearest reserve and made to dance for their supper! After the guests go home, its back to the reserve, exclusion and poverty for the dancers. In many ways Canada is messed up place with no real cultural identity of its own. Little wonder the immigrants find nothing substantial to latch onto in identifying themsevles as Canadians!

[M.Dancer]

Or how about during the World Cup of Soccer when all these Canadians are cheering for and identifying with "their" team, Irish, Italian, Jammaican, whatever. Real Canadians would cheer for and identify with the Canadian team!

Someone call me when Ireland or Canada qualify for the world cup.

[Argus]

Your contribution to this thread is nothing but a personal attack, and an attempt to shut down the discussion and brand anyone who opposes your views.

Not if it is an informed opinion.

I'd suggest you give that one a try but I think the shock would be too much for all of us.

Oh I understand where you are coming from , and thats why I am trying to show you the folly of your ways. Go ahead and rebutt my positions.

You mean the straw men you're drawing up to try and move the debate towards an area you feel more comfortable with? Start another thread, or contribute to actual topic on this one, or shut up.

Me- Both of you do not like immigrants and want them gone . This is due, as you both put it, because the immigrant is a leech on society.

When have I ever described immigrants in that way? Once again, flustered and incapable of discussing the issue, you're trying to shift the discussion in another direction - by lying.

But for you, here ya go......

This is you in an immigratin thread...

Argus - Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarmings, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!

You sure you lived in Canada when this went down? Immigrants...all bad.

Are you an immigrant? I know you've claimed you're a Canadian. Maybe you simply have a very poor education and never learned to read or write English properly. Maybe it's the basics of logic which fly past you, all unawares. But that I said something about the affects on immigration where I used to live does NOT mean I have ever said all immigrants are ANYTHING.

This is another of yours, and you are spinning that if everyone in Canada left, then this country would still wrong to import people.

Argus-The term "net immigrants" is a pet term August uses to try and pretend immigration is smaller than it is. He subtracts all the Canadians who leave Canada to get this, and blithely disregards the fact this only makes the problems of social and cultural disruption worse.

Again, I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say unless you actually can't read well enough to comprehend the difference between discussing the demographics of population growth and immigration - and saying "immigrants are all leeches and all bad".

So, I had a quick look and that is what I found , since you asked me to. And to be a man about it, in my search I did not find you saying outright that all immigrants are on welfare ,uneducated and leeches.

So, here you go.....Sorry about that.

You should be a politician. That's certainly a dishonest enough apology. You have never found that I ever said anything remotely similar to the above. But as far as being a man - you evidently aren't man enough to admit it.

[Argus]

I've commented on immigration on other threads, and basically said with the floodgates open method our Government has been favouring, Canada will be a completely different nation than it was, and there is no going back.

To many of us, that is not such a bad thing.

Yeah, to those who hated Canada, and to immigrants themselves. Which group are you in?

[Argus]

If some of these people are in the "sponsored " category , what are they entitled to?

Do you know?

md I have never been schooled on numbers by you. Not that I ever recall. So yes my good man, if you must , then do so.

And I must congratulate you on your " immigration is needed" admission. THat is refreshing.

And once again, Guyser tries to steer the conversation away from the topic and onto economic grounds.

[rrabbit]

heh heh! snicker snicker! I like it when I have to play with you all here.

I can see why some of you have racked up high scores here. Its stupid easy to just cut and paste from another post and add one liner at the end.

Don't think I don't have considerable experience at these forums and don't know how people use the formats and mechanisms of these places to unfairly influence content!

Some of you should count yourselves lucky I don't have more time to play. If I did you'd have to work considerably harder, spend a good deal more time, at your efforts to dominate this forum.

[guyser]

You mean the straw men you're drawing up to try and move the debate towards an area you feel more comfortable with? Start another thread, or contribute to actual topic on this one, or shut up.

Not a straw man, but you can think that way. The point is that should one believe certain things, and those certain things are shown to be false, then whatever follows is false , or at least has a false premise to it. We saw it on the gay threads, and we see it here. Perhaps not you, but certainly mikedavid .

When have I ever described immigrants in that way? Once again, flustered and incapable of discussing the issue, you're trying to shift the discussion in another direction - by lying.

This is you in an immigration thread...

--Argus - Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarmings, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of immirgants is it? Nothing in there about the good people, the good deeds , the people who are working all day ...no no ! Just the impression you are making with the fighting,shooting, kidnapping (Huh?? LOL) vandalism..... Of course that impression is that they are all bad. It is inferred. But if that is not what you want , fine, I took it that way.

Are you an immigrant? I know you've claimed you're a Canadian. Maybe you simply have a very poor education and never learned to read or write English properly.

Hmm...ad hominen attacks, which you accuse me of, and I dont, yet you write....ah never mind lets move on.

To answer your question I am as much or more so than you are. Hows that ?

Hmm...I dont know, private school education, university, professional designation.....again, attack the message not the messenger. But that does seem hard for you. I am sorry that is so.

Maybe it's the basics of logic which fly past you, all unawares. But that I said something about the affects on immigration where I used to live does NOT mean I have ever said all immigrants are ANYTHING.

Thats the problem with posting about where you lived with respect to immigrants. One normally and reasonably assumes , in the abscence of words such as " where I lived THOSE immigrants had some bad attitudes" , or some such other qualifying words to denote that this was a one off. No, instead you said "ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!" Now a prudent person would make the case that you were making a blanket statement .

Again, I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say unless you actually can't read well enough to comprehend the difference between discussing the demographics of population growth and immigration - and saying "immigrants are all leeches and all bad".

What I was saying is that if half of Canada emptied, you would still be complaining about the numbers let in.

It matters to the core if we lose many people in Canada to emigration as much as it does to gains made by immigration.

One cannot ignore that if we bring in 240,000 people and 40,000 leave , then it impacts any discussion on , as you put it, "discussing the demographics of pop growth " .

But I can see it now. Town A needs 500 people to operate, as in road maintenance, public safety etc , yet 499 of the townspeople move away , and 499 immigrants move in. Let me guess, you walk down the street complaining about "all the immigrants"

But as far as being a man - you evidently aren't man enough to admit it.

So....I am a man, but not enough to admit it. Now should I answer your queries as to my education here ?

[guyser]

heh heh! snicker snicker! I like it when I have to play with you all here.

I can see why some of you have racked up high scores here. Its stupid easy to just cut and paste from another post and add one liner at the end.

Don't think I don't have considerable experience at these forums and don't know how people use the formats and mechanisms of these places to unfairly influence content!

Some of you should count yourselves lucky I don't have more time to play. If I did you'd have to work considerably harder, spend a good deal more time, at your efforts to dominate this forum.

Huh?

[guyser]

I've commented on immigration on other threads, and basically said with the floodgates open method our Government has been favouring, Canada will be a completely different nation than it was, and there is no going back.

To many of us, that is not such a bad thing.

Yeah, to those who hated Canada, and to immigrants themselves. Which group are you in?

I dont know that I hated Canada ever before, and I certainly know that I dont now. Whatever are you talking about ?

Stay focused.

[mikedavid00]

But I can see it now. Town A needs 500 people to operate, as in road maintenance, public safety etc , yet 499 of the townspeople move away , and 499 immigrants move in. Let me guess, you walk down the street complaining about "all the immigrants"

Idealism.

Again, you don't back your claims with facts or numbers. That's your main problem. You only care about your personal feelings on a subject rather then focusing on a solution or what's good for the country.

You think immigration is a 'bowl of pho' and 'jerk chicken' so lets let even more people in.

Wow. Great logic.

So....I am a man, but not enough to admit it. Now should I answer your queries as to my education here ?

That's the problem with many that are in univeristy; they think becuase they have a degree their feelings on a certain matter hold more merit than anothers. They don't have to prove anything becuase the degree should be proof that they're 'right'.

Look, as I'm sober and writing this, I can say that no one is against immigrants or immigration. We welcome people to work jobs that we cannot fill. We welcome employers to sponsor in people on work permits once they can prove that they could not hire a Canadian. People can then come and pay taxes and join our society.

Yes, there would only be mayb 20,000 people a year, but it would be beneficial to Canada and everyone here. We'd have a functioning healthcare system and welfare state for people who need it. People who are entitled to it.

We certainly do not want to cause a threat to our security or strain our welfare/healthcare state.

What you forgot is that these programs are there for us, not foriegn nationals who do not even reside in Canada and are not even citizens (50,000 in Lebanon as an example).

Canada's immigration system is simply broken and out of control.

Why don't you further your manhood and watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lY_AP3uELI

The above is the issue that we are talking about. We don't have the jobs that we are letting in people for. We cannot continue to give free healthcare to the world any longer.

[Argus]

When have I ever described immigrants in that way? Once again, flustered and incapable of discussing the issue, you're trying to shift the discussion in another direction - by lying.

This is you in an immigration thread...

--Argus - Yup. I did that for twenty years. Got to be on a first-name basis with lots of cops, got to hear sirens on a multiple times a day basis too. Stabbings to the left of me, shootings to the right, gang fights in the field outside the schools behind, kidnapping in the park in front of me, all salted with a healthy dose of swarmings, screaming family fights, vandalism, public urination, theft, bad smells, food thrown into hallways, fires set inside apartments... ah yes, the wonderful multiltural experience of living among immigrants!

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of immirgants is it? Nothing in there about the good people, the good deeds , the people who are working all day ...no no ! Just the impression you are making with the fighting,shooting, kidnapping (Huh?? LOL) vandalism..... Of course that impression is that they are all bad. It is inferred. But if that is not what you want , fine, I took it that way.

The problem with people like you is your arguments tend to consist of "Ah, but I like having so many different choices in restaurants" and "How dare you comment on immigrants! There's a lovely woman at work who is an immigrant!"

I'm pointing out what you people keep trying so desperately to ignore, what the limosine liberals who support immigration pay no attention to. Sure there are successful, hard-working, law-abiding immigrants. But at the same time every urban slum in this country is filled with immigrants and their kids. Every welfare office is burdened with hordes of people who can't communicate in either official language. The violent crime in our major urban centres is mostly being commited by visible minorities - ie, immigrants and their families. But you people insist on glossing over that because you don't want to know.

[guyser]

The problem with people like you is your arguments tend to consist of "Ah, but I like having so many different choices in restaurants" and "How dare you comment on immigrants! There's a lovely woman at work who is an immigrant!"

Uh...umm...I said that ? Right.....go ahead , believe it.

I'm pointing out what you people keep trying so desperately to ignore, what the limosine liberals who support immigration pay no attention to.

Naw....come on. We only try to impart the truth. Read on...

Sure there are successful, hard-working, law-abiding immigrants. But at the same time every urban slum in this country is filled with immigrants and their kids.

Just to clarify so there is no arguement ok Argus? Lets look at your words...."Every urban slum ..is filled with immigrants and their kids" Oh how quaint.

Wait a sec....you almost had me there. You a funny guy. Didnt you say you lived with them for many years? Then how can they be filled with them AND you lived there.I suppose you could have been the only born and bred canuck in there.......I suppose.

The violent crime in our major urban centres is mostly being commited by visible minorities - ie, immigrants and their families. But you people insist on glossing over that because you don't want to know.

Funny, I dont think it is because we dont want to know. I really dont.

But let me ask this then.....umm...how come you know that to be true?

Considering..............IMMIGRATION AND CRIME – THE DATA CONTROVERSY

"In the Canadian context, relatively little is known about the true relationship between criminal behaviour and such demographic characteristics as immigration status, race or ethnicity. One of the reasons for this "gap" in our knowledge is that our enforcement and statistics agencies do not currently collect and/or release crime data related to race and/or ethnicity. This has created a major controversy in the justice domain that must be acknowledged by Metropolis."

I know I know....you have an inside contact OR they dont collect it.

[guyser]

mikedavid, what has got into you. Good read ! Lets talk .

But I can see it now. Town A needs 500 people to operate, as in road maintenance, public safety etc , yet 499 of the townspeople move away , and 499 immigrants move in. Let me guess, you walk down the street complaining about "all the immigrants"

Idealism.

Again, you don't back your claims with facts or numbers.

That was an anology. And idealism? It was merely showing that if everyone left, and immigrants moved in, the same people would complain that immigrants are running the show.

Actually, as for cites I do mikedavid. Some times they get missed and we all can make mistakes.

then focusing on a solution or what's good for the country.

You think immigration is a 'bowl of pho' and 'jerk chicken' so lets let even more people in.

Wow. Great logic.

I would have to agree with you there mikedavid. Well except for the part that I think of pho and jerk as the end all of immigration. You pulled that one from a post whereby some other poster and I were swapping good ethnic places to eat around our respective close geographical offices.

As for what is good for our country , yes I do think immigration is good. With all the people pouring in to our country why isnt our unemployed rate going through the roof? We are growing economically and people are employed.

That's the problem with many that are in univeristy; they think becuase they have a degree their feelings on a certain matter hold more merit than anothers. They don't have to prove anything becuase the degree should be proof that they're 'right'.

You have never read nor heard of me talking about my education until Argus decided to get into some attacks/insults in an attempt to bolster his arguement. Petty of anyone who does.

I congratulate you on wanting immigration as you posted. You want less , I am ok with status quo. (or maybe a little more)

I asked , and was admonished for doing so, about your knowledge of sponsored immigrants. You do realize that the one that signs to sponsor has to ensure that the sponsored person is provided housing, food, transport etc, and cannot avail themselves to social services ? (Healthcare I believe is exempt) They cannot go on welfare plus a myriad of other things.

Kind of takes the bite out of the costs you normally associate with immigrants.

[guyser]

Well that stopped dead. Hmm....

[mikedavid00]

mikedavid, what has got into you. Good read ! Lets talk .

And you didn't watch the video which was the main point. You didn't see your Liberal hero's get destroyed on camera and Joe Volpe himself admitting that our system is broken and needs improvement.

That was an anology.

I'd say an anology would be comparing another countries immigration policy with ours. Oh yeah.. no one else has such a ridiculous policy.

And idealism? It was merely showing that if everyone left, and immigrants moved in, the same people would complain that immigrants are running the show.

Immigrants are running the show. They are living their dreams and controlling Canada's political system.

For the most part, when an immigrant comes here, their life quality goes up. They don't have to work, have running water, get free money for doing nothing, have children and get paid to do so. It's a big improvement when coming from the 3rd world.

What you and your friends on the forum don't understand, is that their dreams are at the expense of mine. I sponsor them financially to live their dreams while my standard of living, healthcare, and welfare state goes down and down slightly each year.

As for what is good for our country , yes I do think immigration is good. With all the people pouring in to our country why isnt our unemployed rate going through the roof? We are growing economically and people are employed.

Again, you have completely ignored previous posts and have done no research on this issues. You don't even probably understand how our unemployement system works. You don't have too much of a grasp on the economy either. A country's well being cannot be measured by its GDP alone. It's about the quality of life for each Canadian: how big of a house can I afford to live in, what will my higher eduction get me, what kind of cars can we afford to buy.

When each person has a small share of the pie, they can afford less and less of the above. ie: toyota corolla is the #1 selling vehicle in Canada when the Toyota Camry is the #1 selling vehicle in the US.

The very same people working the same jobs can afford a step up.

The average living space in American homes is larger than the average in Canada.

The starting pay for a grad in the US is much higher than in Canada. In Canada, grads aren't even getting jobs at all. This is not the same in the US.

You don't grasp onto these simple concepts.

Immigration IMO is the #1 thing that causes all these problems over time. We have a surplus of people, and cannot provide jobs or services for these people. This is suicide. It ruins everything from our healthcare system to our political system.

My vote is no longer represented because I live in an islamic immigrant area. The vote is 'un natural'. It's not based off the good of the country, it's based off immigration. Those are facts. Why should I even vote next election? The polical will of Canadians in my riding has been overthrown by foreign nationals who do not consider themselves Canadian (fact).

When you vote as a visible minority who is an immigrant, sponsorship and immigration is your #1 concern (fact), you are not voting on Canadian issues like taxes and the economy. You are voting on an issue that really has nothing to do with Canada and self-serves your own international/family agenda.

Then the Ontario gov't gives away $30,000,000 of our hard earned money to these immigrant groups and organaziations here in Toronto (many of which have ties to the Libearl party) to basically buy votes. This is repusilve and should not be happening in a first world country.

You do realize that the one that signs to sponsor has to ensure that the sponsored person is provided housing, food, transport etc, and cannot avail themselves to social services ? (Healthcare I believe is exempt) They cannot go on welfare plus a myriad of other things.

Yes. That is only for a certain amount of time and then they can do as they please. If they have kids they can also collect benefits. Don't kid yourself for a second. Also, people HAVE been going on welfare and the Ontario gov't some years back tried to go after families who's relatatives went on welfare. If your sponsors kick you out of the house, you are allowed to go on welfare. There's a whole slew of services you are allowed to use that we do not have the money to pay for like public schools, childcare, child benefits, healthcare of course, and the list goes on and on and on and on.

Name me another country that allows any old and ailing person to be sponsored into the country. A person who simply has no intent of working because they are too old.

UK? Australia?

Hmmm lets take a look at the UK's policy:

Nah.. i gotta go now. Maybe.. YOU can do the research and learn some facts for once.

[guyser]

And idealism? It was merely showing that if everyone left, and immigrants moved in, the same people would complain that immigrants are running the show.

Immigrants are running the show. They are living their dreams and controlling Canada's political system.

Well at best they are investing in it by voting. But somehow I doubt that they "control" it. Look at the big cheeseheads in the political parties,and by far, Canadians are represented .

For the most part, when an immigrant comes here, their life quality goes up. They don't have to work, have running water, get free money for doing nothing, have children and get paid to do so. It's a big improvement when coming from the 3rd world.

Umm...thats one of the reasons they come mikedavid. Kind of dumb if they come and things are worse now inst it? As for free money, not if they are sponsored, and the cite I gave you that those in the prime target market of 29 to 44 are working as much as ...gasp...the Canadian born person.

What you and your friends on the forum don't understand, is that their dreams are at the expense of mine. I sponsor them financially to live their dreams while my standard of living, healthcare, and welfare state goes down and down slightly each year.

Somehow I have felt that your whole arguement is this. "at the expense of mine". Go out and work harder and be smarter and everything should fall into place for you. Hydraboss told you as much on an earlier thread.

Again, you have completely ignored previous posts and have done no research on this issues. You don't even probably understand how our unemployement system works. You don't have too much of a grasp on the economy either. A country's well being cannot be measured by its GDP alone. It's about the quality of life for each Canadian: how big of a house can I afford to live in, what will my higher eduction get me, what kind of cars can we afford to buy.

No I have not . I have read virtually every cite you put in. And you dont make a case. Simple as that.

How big a house, affordability of the car you want. Oh please. And I am supposed to not understand economics?

As for the economy , here is what I need to know on this. We let in X number of people. The following years (as is true in CDA) our employment levels have dropped or remained static.

This tells me 1) immigrants are getting jobs (2) our economy is growing. Thus I can surmise that we are not in trouble , and that we have employed immigrants. Please tell me how that is wrong.

When each person has a small share of the pie, they can afford less and less of the above. ie: toyota corolla is the #1 selling vehicle in Canada when the Toyota Camry is the #1 selling vehicle in the US.

Well, you are wrong wrong wrong.

And you question me on cites, or not doing the homework. In Canada the best selling car is the Honda Civic.and in the US it is the Camry.(2006) Ok you were half right.

The average living space in American homes is larger than the average in Canada.

Maybe true. How is measured ? Since plenty of the US does not deal with winter in the same extremes as we do perhaps they do have bigger houses. And since for plenty of the US a basement is not a consideration, that may be part of it too. (for the record-basements are not included in sq footage in Canada-thus skewering results further)

The starting pay for a grad in the US is much higher than in Canada. In Canada, grads aren't even getting jobs at all. This is not the same in the US.

For some positions yes. Some no. In the US gross may be higher,but factor in Healthcare benefits and the such and voila....maybe on par?

You don't grasp onto these simple concepts.

You keep saying that but no explaination. What dont I grasp?

[Argus]

The problem with people like you is your arguments tend to consist of "Ah, but I like having so many different choices in restaurants" and "How dare you comment on immigrants! There's a lovely woman at work who is an immigrant!"

Uh...umm...I said that ? Right.....go ahead , believe it.

You DID pretty much actually say that, right down to the immigrant woman at work.

Sure there are successful, hard-working, law-abiding immigrants. But at the same time every urban slum in this country is filled with immigrants and their kids.

Just to clarify so there is no arguement ok Argus? Lets look at your words...."Every urban slum ..is filled with immigrants and their kids" Oh how quaint.

Wait a sec....you almost had me there. You a funny guy. Didnt you say you lived with them for many years? Then how can they be filled with them AND you lived there.I suppose you could have been the only born and bred canuck in there.......I suppose.

Again with the lack of basic logic. I did not suggest that all immigrants live in slums. I said just about all urban slums have a hugely disproportionate number of immigrants and their kids. Sure there are white faces, but there are huge numbers of Black and Brown faces too, far more than their number in the general population.

The violent crime in our major urban centres is mostly being commited by visible minorities - ie, immigrants and their families. But you people insist on glossing over that because you don't want to know.

Funny, I dont think it is because we dont want to know. I really dont.

But let me ask this then.....umm...how come you know that to be true?

Considering..............IMMIGRATION AND CRIME – THE DATA CONTROVERSY

"In the Canadian context, relatively little is known about the true relationship between criminal behaviour and such demographic characteristics as immigration status, race or ethnicity. One of the reasons for this "gap" in our knowledge is that our enforcement and statistics agencies do not currently collect and/or release crime data related to race and/or ethnicity. This has created a major controversy in the justice domain that must be acknowledged by Metropolis."

I know I know....you have an inside contact OR they dont collect it.

What that doesn't say is that people like you have screamed and whined and ensured that such data is not collected. Why? Because you think it will be used by racists. How could that be unless there was a hugely disproportionate number of visible minorities involved in crime? It doesn't matter. Everyone knows. Everyone talks about it. Almost all the shootings in Toronto are Black on Black or Brown on Brown gang violence. Almost all the shootings in BC are brown on brown or yellow on yellow street crime involving Asian and Indian gangs. Everyone knows, so there's no point in your continued denial.

[guyser]

Again with the lack of basic logic. I did not suggest that all immigrants live in slums. I said just about all urban slums have a hugely disproportionate number of immigrants and their kids.

Oh I am sorry then.

You now say that "just about all" , but in fact you said, "But at the same time every urban slum in this country is filled with immigrants and their kids."

filled = disproportionate , gotcha. I will remember for the future.

The violent crime in our major urban centres is mostly being commited by visible minorities - ie, immigrants and their families. But you people insist on glossing over that because you don't want to know

You say the above, and then shown that no one in Canada collects that data.....and then this gem follows.

What that doesn't say is that people like you have screamed and whined and ensured that such data is not collected. Why? Because you think it will be used by racists. How could that be unless there was a hugely disproportionate number of visible minorities involved in crime? It doesn't matter. Everyone knows. Everyone talks about it. Almost all the shootings in Toronto are Black on Black or Brown on Brown gang violence. Almost all the shootings in BC are brown on brown or yellow on yellow street crime involving Asian and Indian gangs. Everyone knows, so there's no point in your continued denial.

I dont know, but if it were me, I would have said "whoops" and called it a day.But thats just me.