This Would Never Happen In Canada

[sharkman]

For those of you who think our religious leaders are bad for being against gay marriage, get a load of this:

Richard Gere is now the subject of possible legal action in India for a smooch gone awry after three attorneys filed formal complaints alleging the actor committed an "obscene act" by kissing Bollywood beauty Shilpa Shetty at a public conference Monday.

The PDA sparked a firestorm of controversy in a male-dominated country that prides itself on modesty and touched off protests organized by religious conservatives that saw Gere and Shetty burned in effigy throughout the country.

Per India's Press Trust news agency, two lawyers filed an obscenity claim in Ghaziabad, a town outside the Indian capital of New Delhi, against Shetty, as well as several private TV news broadcasters for airing the incident. Another lawyer, Poonal Chandra Bhandari, filed a separate complaint blasting the Chicago star for his overly exuberant behavior.

(End quote)

So, they have actually sued TV stations and began burning Gere and Shetty in effigy. Now THAT is religion running amock, folks. You might hate religion, you might be indifferent as long as they don't bug you, but all in all, you don't have much to complain about in Canada.

The link says that within hours of the kiss, groups of men organized demonstrations in several major cities and began torching posters of the stars and dancing around the ashes. In Canada, however, no such protests were organized by religious leaders. I thought I'd just point that out.

[stignasty]

So, they have actually sued TV stations and began burning Gere and Shetty in effigy.

Maybe they just saw The Mothman Prophecies?

From what I've read this is more a problem of the Indian court system than of any religious beliefs.

[Shakeyhands]

what we miss here is that this is their belief system, and they are entitled to believe and enforce what they want, just as we are. It's the case of the Ugly American (or Canadian or Englander etc...) going to another country and making the assumption that its just like their home and other case get over it.

[GostHacked]

Alright Sharkman.

How does Gere, kissing a woman in India have anything to do with Gay rights here in Canada?? I don't see the link. I would have done the same thing, Shilpa Shetty is one smokingly hot woman.

Different country, different rules. It's like going to someone elses house and you thinking it's yours, and you make yourself at home and the people who own the house are pissed at how rude you are.

[cybercoma]

what we miss here is that this is their belief system, and they are entitled to believe and enforce what they want, just as we are. It's the case of the Ugly American (or Canadian or Englander etc...) going to another country and making the assumption that its just like their home and other case get over it.

Why are they entitled to their belief system and able to enforce what they want? If it is their belief to murder anyone of another religion, are they entitled to that? Obviously not.

Why do we give people and groups carte blanche when it comes to religious oppression? There is no justifiable reason someone should be jailed for kissing in public. This kind of idiocy needs to bear the same scrutiny as political ideas and scientific ideas do. It is impossible to have a reasoned discussion on religion and religious oppression if moderates continue to give idiots like this free reign because they don't need to justify their beliefs.

[Drea]

Why do we give people and groups carte blanche when it comes to religious oppression? There is no justifiable reason someone should be jailed for kissing in public. This kind of idiocy needs to bear the same scrutiny as political ideas and scientific ideas do. It is impossible to have a reasoned discussion on religion and religious oppression if moderates continue to give idiots like this free reign because they don't need to justify their beliefs.

I can see why you would be ticked if this happened here in our home -- but it didn't and as someone said earlier -- it's their country and us "westerners" should not think we can go anywhere in the world and do whatever we want.

It is perfectly acceptable for me to wear short shorts here in Canada -- should I run around India or Iran in my short shorts simply because I do at home? Of course not.

...when in Rome...

[sharkman]

Alright Sharkman.

How does Gere, kissing a woman in India have anything to do with Gay rights here in Canada?? I don't see the link. I would have done the same thing, Shilpa Shetty is one smokingly hot woman.

Different country, different rules. It's like going to someone elses house and you thinking it's yours, and you make yourself at home and the people who own the house are pissed at how rude you are.

It has nothing to do with gay rights here in Canada, I am simply comparing what one country's religion finds acceptible behaviour vs Canada. Hint: here we do not find anything wrong with PDAs, nor do we burn effigys over anything.

[ScottSA]

what we miss here is that this is their belief system, and they are entitled to believe and enforce what they want, just as we are. It's the case of the Ugly American (or Canadian or Englander etc...) going to another country and making the assumption that its just like their home and other case get over it.

Ah, does that work both ways? When they come here, should we expect them to adopt our belief system, or at least respect it enough not to try to change it?

[Drea]

what we miss here is that this is their belief system, and they are entitled to believe and enforce what they want, just as we are. It's the case of the Ugly American (or Canadian or Englander etc...) going to another country and making the assumption that its just like their home and other case get over it.

Ah, does that work both ways? When they come here, should we expect them to adopt our belief system, or at least respect it enough not to try to change it?

For Pete Sake -- Gere did not move there -- he was a tourist Do we expect our tourists to bring their laws with them or do we expect them to obey our laws while visiting?

[noahbody]

Gere must have heard India thought he was gay.

[sharkman]

I can see why you would be ticked if this happened here in our home -- but it didn't and as someone said earlier -- it's their country and us "westerners" should not think we can go anywhere in the world and do whatever we want.

It is perfectly acceptable for me to wear short shorts here in Canada -- should I run around India or Iran in my short shorts simply because I do at home? Of course not.

...when in Rome...

Okay, so nice to see you respect another country's religion in this thread while stating All religions are nonsense and just an attempt to control people in another thread. Make up your friggin mind, Drea.

[Drea]

Gee but I can't change the world with one post so I guess we have to expect that different cultures have different ways of doing things.

I am from a country that smacks all people over 5 feet in the head. Does that give me the right to visit your country and smack all the tall people? Of course not.

Culture and religion are not the same thing.

Native North Americans had culture but no "religion" per say.

[ScottSA]

Native North Americans had culture but no "religion" per say.

Really? What was all that stuff about animism and the great spirit and stuff?

[sharkman]

Gee but I can't change the world with one post so I guess we have to expect that different cultures have different ways of doing things.

I am from a country that smacks all people over 5 feet in the head. Does that give me the right to visit your country and smack all the tall people? Of course not.

Culture and religion are not the same thing.

Native North Americans had culture but no "religion" per say.

Perhaps you should read up on India. They are a very religious country, much more than canada. Their laws and culture are based on their religion. Your disconnect in this matter is very revealing.

Edit: here's a start from Wikipedia :

Although 80.5% of Indians report themselves as Hindus, India's Muslim population is the world's second largest; they constitute 13.4% of the population. Other religious groups include Christians (2.3%), Sikhs (1.9%), Buddhists (0.8%), Jains (0.4%), Jews, Zoroastrians, Bahá'ís and others.[

[cybercoma]

I can see why you would be ticked if this happened here in our home -- but it didn't and as someone said earlier -- it's their country and us "westerners" should not think we can go anywhere in the world and do whatever we want.

It is perfectly acceptable for me to wear short shorts here in Canada -- should I run around India or Iran in my short shorts simply because I do at home? Of course not.

...when in Rome...

Does religion make oppression tolerable? Until we stop putting mythological religious belief on a pedestal, we will never advance as a global society. We don't believe in Apollo, Zeus or the Aztec Sun God, nor do we follow those laws and rules. If there was a group of people in the world that made human sacrifices for their God, would we idly sit back and accept this as freedom of religion? Of course not. Although a kiss is not murder, two people kissing in public is innocuous and to arrest someone on those grounds is idiotic at best.

[sharkman]

Does religion make oppression tolerable? Until we stop putting mythological religious belief on a pedestal, we will never advance as a global society. We don't believe in Apollo, Zeus or the Aztec Sun God, nor do we follow those laws and rules. If there was a group of people in the world that made human sacrifices for their God, would we idly sit back and accept this as freedom of religion? Of course not. Although a kiss is not murder, two people kissing in public is innocuous and to arrest someone on those grounds is idiotic at best.

Correct you are about the kissing in public, and the point of this thread is to point out how in Canada, Christianity does not burn effigys over kissing, or making out, or gay parades, or gay marriage, or abortions, or anything. So to claim Christianity is on par with other religions' actions, such as in India, is nonsense.

[ScottSA]

If there was a group of people in the world that made human sacrifices for their God, would we idly sit back and accept this as freedom of religion?

Ah, speaking of Aztec sun gods...and now poor Cortez has a bum rap for stopping the poor indigenies from ripping human hearts out with stones knives...

[Drea]

Does religion make oppression tolerable? Until we stop putting mythological religious belief on a pedestal, we will never advance as a global society.

Yes, religion makes oppression tolerable -- as in "I can live through anything because of the afterlife God has set up for me."

Yes, we need to stop putting mythological religious beliefs on pedestals. Religion (spirituality) should never leave the household, should never be part of the wider culture. But it is only 2007 and we do have religious societies (yes even ours) --so if you are going to go to a country ruled by "religionA" you ought to obey the rules of "religionA" while you are there.

We don't believe in Apollo, Zeus or the Aztec Sun God, nor do we follow those laws and rules.

The oppressors of the past forced people to believe in "one" god. What they called a "true" god. This so-called "true" god is no more real than the multitudes of gods worshipped by people in the past.

If there was a group of people in the world that made human sacrifices for their God, would we idly sit back and accept this as freedom of religion? Of course not. Although a kiss is not murder, two people kissing in public is innocuous and to arrest someone on those grounds is idiotic at best.

It was more than a peck on the cheek -- He did the 'ol swoon swoop and planted a big one on her mouth -- she was very embarassed (as even a free open western woman would have been in that circumstance)

Although the swooping smooch may be acceptable in the west it isn't in some other countries. Shall we force those other countries to adopt the swooping smooch?

It is perfectly acceptable for me to have sex with hubby on the couch -- shall we come over to your house? How big is your couch? Hope it doesn't squeak -- I hate having to shoo 3 year olds away during orgasm....

What right do you have to tell me I can't? Pffft. I will do what I want when I want no matter who thinks its unacceptable.

Now do you "understand" ...when in Rome....is the same as "when at John's house" or "when in India"...

You cannot say "well its okay in my home/country so I am going to do it here". If you do you are an utter clod with no manners whatsoever.

Now go get the kids off the couch -- we are coming over.

[sharkman]

Gee but I can't change the world with one post so I guess we have to expect that different cultures have different ways of doing things.

I am from a country that smacks all people over 5 feet in the head. Does that give me the right to visit your country and smack all the tall people? Of course not.

Culture and religion are not the same thing.

Native North Americans had culture but no "religion" per say.

Perhaps you should read up on India. They are a very religious country, much more than canada. Their laws and culture are based on their religion. Your disconnect in this matter is very revealing.

Edit: here's a start from Wikipedia :

Although 80.5% of Indians report themselves as Hindus, India's Muslim population is the world's second largest; they constitute 13.4% of the population. Other religious groups include Christians (2.3%), Sikhs (1.9%), Buddhists (0.8%), Jains (0.4%), Jews, Zoroastrians, Bahá'ís and others.[

But the Obscenity laws that Gere broke in India are not culture based, but religion based Drea. Once again, you are hypocritical to respect India's religious laws in this thread, but state how all religions are nonsense in another. Get back to me when you can explain this.

[sharkman]

Just in case you cant' find this other thread, here it is.

[Shakeyhands]

what we miss here is that this is their belief system, and they are entitled to believe and enforce what they want, just as we are. It's the case of the Ugly American (or Canadian or Englander etc...) going to another country and making the assumption that its just like their home and other case get over it.

Ah, does that work both ways? When they come here, should we expect them to adopt our belief system, or at least respect it enough not to try to change it?

within reason absolutely.

[cybercoma]

And are religious principles based on reason? Absolutely not.

[ScottSA]

And are religious principles based on reason? Absolutely not.

Sure they are. Reason is simply a fancy name trotted out of the renaissance to describe the rationalism of Plato. Are you suggesting that something like the ten commandments are unreason?

[Figleaf]

And are religious principles based on reason? Absolutely not.

Sure they are...

!!

Like the injunction in the Koran for men to have dominion over their wives, for example?

What nonsense!

[sharkman]

Here's something to add to the pot.

Excerpt:

They say things like this: 'How'd you like it if anyone did the same to you?' -- 'That's my seat, I was there first' -- 'Leave him alone, he isn't doing you any harm' -- 'Why should you shove in first?' -- 'Give me a bit of your orange, I gave you a bit of mine' -- 'Come on, you promised.' People say things like that every day, educated people as well as uneducated, and children as well as grown-ups.

Now what interests me about all these remarks is that the man who makes them is not merely saying that the other man's behaviour does not happen to please him. He is appealing to some kind of standard of behaviour which he expects the other man to know about. And the other man very seldom replies: 'To hell with your standard.' Nearly always he tries to make out that what he has been doing does not really go against the standard, or that if it does there is some special excuse. He pretends there is some special reason in this particular case why the person who took the seat first should not keep it, or that things were quite different when he was given the bit of orange, or that something has turned up which lets him off keeping his promise. It looks, in fact, very much as if both parties had in mind some kind of Law or Rule of fair play or decent behaviour or morality or whatever you like to call it, about which they really agreed. And they have. If they had not, they might, of course, fight like animals, but they could not quarrel in the human sense of the word. Quarrelling means trying to show that the other man is in the wrong.

End of excerpt

Religious principles are based on natural law.