Korean War policy let U.S. troops kill refugees

[Wilber]

No moral high ground can ever be claimed by the US.

simple as that.

Are you suggesting Koreans would be better off if the north had won? The US suffered nearly 170,000 casualties to see that they didn't.

do you see what the article is about?

it is about US Korean war policy, that saw the US gunning down civilians.Intentionally.

run with that, ok?

Korean war policy was to defend the south from invasion. Nearly 170,000 Americans were killed and wounded doing that. Run with that OK.

[Guthrie]

No moral high ground can ever be claimed by the US.

simple as that.

Are you suggesting Koreans would be better off if the north had won? The US suffered nearly 170,000 casualties to see that they didn't.

do you see what the article is about?

it is about US Korean war policy, that saw the US gunning down civilians.Intentionally.

run with that, ok?

Korean war policy was to defend the south from invasion. Nearly 170,000 Americans were killed and wounded doing that. Run with that OK.

actually, there was some controversy over America's war policy in Korea --- there was finally a showdown of the bigshots in the middle of the Pacific -- remember who duked it out on that one?

[Wilber]

actually, there was some controversy over America's war policy in Korea --- there was finally a showdown of the bigshots in the middle of the Pacific -- remember who duked it out on that one?

You will have to enlighten me.

[DogOnPorch]

I think this is in reference to the Truman vs MacArthur way of fighting the war. MacArthur wanted to take the war to the Red Chinese as they had done to South Korea...while Truman didn't feel it was worth courting WW3 with the Soviets. The Reds had committed to all-out war against the US/UN/ROK and MacArthur wanted to do the same in reverse on Chinese soil. But, he was forbidden from striking targets in Communist China (the Yalu bridges in particular). Plus, his suggestion to deploy tactical nuclear weapons in South Korea was nixed. Truman felt MacArthur couldn't be trusted with atomic weapons even though MacArthur was shocked at Truman's decision to use the A-Bomb on Japanese cities. But it is more likely that it was MacArthur's own threat to the Communists independent of the US administration that got him fired. Loose cannon, I suppose. He was replaced by General Matthew Ridgway who was keener on Truman's desire for a cease fire.

However, this has no real bearing on No Gun Ri as that occured before the Communist Chinese intervention...before MacArthur attacked at Inchon, even.

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It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it.

---General Douglas MacArthur

[Guthrie]

McArthur wanted to nuke Beijing -

Truman had a lingering memory of the photos of Hiroshima -

Truman always felt justified in nuking Japan - but what he knew about the bomb before it was dropped and what he knew about it after was the difference of an entire universe and he was profoundly changed by the knowledge that mankind truly had now achieved the technology to blow itself to hell

McArthur was a dimwit cowboy such as currrently resides in the oval office.

[Wilber]

However, this has no real bearing on No Gun Ri as that occured before the Communist Chinese intervention...before MacArthur attacked at Inchon, even.

Exactly.

[Guthrie]

However, this has no real bearing on No Gun Ri as that occured before the Communist Chinese intervention...before MacArthur attacked at Inchon, even.

Exactly.

yes, I agree

[DogOnPorch]

McArthur (sic) was a dimwit cowboy such as currrently resides in the oval office.

Hardly. MacArthur was one of the finest generals the planet has ever seen. Not only a superb soldier but a competant naval strategist, as well. Right up there with Robert E Lee and Heinz Guderian. He also didn't want to 'nuke Peking'. He felt that a tactical strike on the supply bridges/tunnels would stop any further Red Chinese intervention and this is what he threatened. He asked for up to 26 atomic weapons for his discretionary use against military targets.

"I would cut them (the Red Chinese) off in North Korea . . . I visualise a cul-de-sac. The only passages leading from Manchuria and Vladivostok have many tunnels and bridges. I see here a unique use for the atomic bomb -- to strike a blocking blow -- which would require a six months' repair job. Sweeten up my B-29 force."

Both Truman and Eisenhower threatened to use nuclear weapons, as well. It should also be noted that General Ridgeway asked for 38 bombs. The difference between Ridgeway and MacArthur being that Ridgeway took orders without showing contempt for the administration's wants and desires. They needed someone they knew wouldn't try to do everything on his own.

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Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you're a thousand miles from the corn field.

---President/General Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Guthrie]

McArthur (sic) was a dimwit cowboy such as currrently resides in the oval office.

Hardly. MacArthur was one of the finest generals the planet has ever seen. Not only a superb soldier but a competant naval strategist, as well. Right up there with Robert E Lee and Heinz Guderian. He also didn't want to 'nuke Peking'. He felt that a tactical strike on the supply bridges/tunnels would stop any further Red Chinese intervention and this is what he threatened. He asked for up to 26 atomic weapons for his discretionary use against military targets.

"I would cut them (the Red Chinese) off in North Korea . . . I visualise a cul-de-sac. The only passages leading from Manchuria and Vladivostok have many tunnels and bridges. I see here a unique use for the atomic bomb -- to strike a blocking blow -- which would require a six months' repair job. Sweeten up my B-29 force."

Both Truman and Eisenhower threatened to use nuclear weapons, as well. It should also be noted that General Ridgeway asked for 38 bombs. The difference between Ridgeway and MacArthur being that Ridgeway took orders without showing contempt for the administration's wants and desires. They needed someone they knew wouldn't try to do everything on his own.

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Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you're a thousand miles from the corn field.

---President/General Dwight D. Eisenhower

and he turned machine guns on American veterans who marched for promised benefits in DC

and he had a Sgt on his staff who beat up hats for him to wear so they would look like they'd been in combat

and he abandoned his own troops in the Phillipines - and this was after failing to mobilize a dozen hours after being warned of an imminent attack

and he has been called the American Coriolanus - a mama's boy,"following maternal orders to be mercilessly ambitious." -http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-59021333.html

and after his wife left him he hosted kinky sex parties with prostitutes in his Wash DC apt

and after WWII he helped cover up Japanese atrocities and sought to have the perpetrators continue their work on germ warfare: Link

...

MacArthur's CIC agents, commanded by Col. Philip Bethune, not only covered up war crimes against the American POWs, but also aggressively protected the architect of those crimes, Lt. Gen. Shiro Ishii. Under MacArthur's protection, the Japanese germ-war fare researchers became some of Japan's most prominent citizens -- university presidents, heads of medical centers. Lt. Col. Ryoichi Naito, Ishii's right-hand man, founded Green Cross, one of Japan's top pharmaceutic companies. Other Unit 731 leaders joined him there.

On April 18,1947, MacArthur's headquarters issued an order - "Every step, interrogation, or contact must be coordinated with this section, The utmost secrecy is essential in order to protect the interests of the United States and to guard against embarrassment."

An American survivor Rodriquez of Henryetta, Oklahoma, says of MacArthur: "I can't tell you in words what I think of him. First he abandoned us in the Philippines, then he abandoned us to a lifetime of uncertainties." For four decades, Rodriquez had been going to Veterans Administration hospitals several times a year with inexplicable fevers, one of which reached 106 degrees. He has excessive levels of typhoid bacilli in his blood thanks to Gen. Ishii and the American hero Douglas MacArthur.

In 1945, Big Mac was made the de facto emperor of Japan. Japan's emperor bowed to him. When the Korean War broke out Truman made Big Mac the Supreme Commander of the United Nations Command.

...

and he addressed himself in third person as if he were an emperor (or a psychotic)

[DogOnPorch]

Stonewall Jackson shot stragglers and never fought on Sundays (except at Kernstown)...but he was still one of the finest generals ever. Same goes for MacArthur. As for abandoning his troops...he had the old nick name at Bataan of 'Dugout Doug' as his men faced certain destruction and blamed him...he was cut-off and sure to face capture. MacArthur was much too valuable to be a Japanese POW so ABDA sent a PT boat to sneak him out to Australia.

No offence...but can you find a better source than a Korean web-site that seems to blame MacArthur for lack of rain and crop failure? Not terribly objective. I can see you don't like him...but really.

:D

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I reject your reality and substitute my own.

---Adam Savage

[Guthrie]

Great generals don't need people following them around making excuses.

and Dugout Doug was not great - even if you think he was. Of course, you are welcome to your own opinion. History, however, is not with you on this one.

and insulting Koreans is not much use either

[ScottSA]

Great generals don't need people following them around making excuses.

and Dugout Doug was not great - even if you think he was. Of course, you are welcome to your own opinion. History, however, is not with you on this one.

and insulting Koreans is not much use either

History is obviously on MacArthur's side. They don't make movies about American Caesars so they can immortalize him as a loser. He was obviously a great general, a great showman, and an inspiration to the Phillipines, whether you want to haul up an ancient slag from the retreat or not. "I will return" has often been the single most cited cause of the ongoing resistence against the Japanese during its occupation.

You can compile a couple mistakes and try to make your case look like it has a modicum of legitimacy, but history is written by the victors, not the north koreans, and MacArthur will long be remembered as an American Caesar whether you like it or not.

[Guthrie]

... Many of the 1,500 American soldiers who were captured in the Philippines and taken to Mukden, Manchuria, have long suspected that they, too, were victims of germ-warfare experiments. Dozens of Mukden survivors contend that Japanese and U.S. officials have covered up the experiments on Americans for 50 years.

Both governments, however, have maintained there is no evidence to support such an allegation -- a position they still hold.

Evidence to the contrary is found in a file from the military's counterintelligence corps of the Supreme Commander of Allied Powers, headed by Gen. Douglas MacArthur. Its most damning documents make it clear that U.S. intelligence agents not only covered up war crimes against Americans, but also aggressively protected the architect of those crimes, Lt. Gen. Shiro Ishii.

''What fascinates me the most about this file is that there was no visible interest expressed in following up about the Americans,'' said historian Gavan Daws of Honolulu, an authority on Allied POWs in the Pacific, who was recently shown the document by the Mercury News. ''And it's clear from the file that there is a wish and a directive that nothing should be done.''

Sheldon Harris, author of ''Factories of Death,'' a 1994 book on Japanese biological warfare, agreed. ''It's almost assumed that Americans were victimized, and it didn't bother them in the least,'' Harris said of the intelligence agents. ''This file brings a lot of things together. It's really a shameful story.''

At the request of Nationalist Chinese officials who heard about ''bacteriological experiments upon Chinese and Americans as human guinea pigs,'' the U.S. counterintelligence corps prepared a report on Ishii, the head of Unit 731, according to a Sept. 6, 1947, memo.

The document makes it clear that a high-level U.S. intelligence officer, Col. Philip Bethune, quashed the report after informing his agents that it involved ''a Top Secret matter.''

The agent who wrote the memo, identified only by the initials WSC, also wrote that ''Col. Bethune desires no further action be taken in this case. No further action was taken.''

The newly discovered file dovetails with an April 18, 1947, report from the legal section of Gen. MacArthur's headquarters, specifying that the Unit 731 investigation was ''under direct Joint Chiefs of Staff order.''

''Every step, interrogation, or contact must be coordinated with this section,'' said the report by Lt. Neal Smith. ''The utmost secrecy is essential in order to protect the interests of the United States and to guard against embarrassment.''

The file also corroborates the story of Dr. Murray Sanders, a former lieutenant colonel who advised Gen. MacArthur on biological warfare. In 1985, Sanders claimed he recommended to MacArthur that he trade the data for immunity for Unit 731 leaders.

...

Link

...They don't make movies about American Caesars so they can immortalize him as a loser...

well the made a movie about a Little Ceasar and Rico was a loser

then there was --- The Execution of Private Slovik, he wasn't so very highly decorated but the movie was more popular than Dugout Doug's

[ScottSA]

Whatever woody.

[DogOnPorch]

Indeed...whatever.

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Is this your pen?

---Robert DeNiro: Casino

[Guthrie]

... hey

[M.Dancer]

What about the flying saucers eh?

[ScottSA]

What about the flying saucers eh?

MacArthur escaped from the dugout in a flying saucer? I thought it was a PT Barnum boat.