Gentrification and Renewal

[jdobbin]

This isn't unique to Montreal but it is a good example of cities trying to chase away red light districts. New York went through the same phase with Time Square.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

MONTREAL -- It has the names of two saints in it, but the intersection of Ste. Catherine Street and St. Laurent Boulevard is about the most unholy spot in the city of Montreal. Hustlers, strippers, runaways, ladies-of-the-night -- they've been parading at the crossroads of Montreal's two most famous streets for more than a century.

The streets form a gateway to Montreal's legendary lower Main, a seedy, neon-lit strip known for activities that range from mainstream to outright illegal.

Now, city officials have the strip earmarked for a makeover. The city has just cleared a legal hurdle to expropriate a building at the intersection that houses a peep show and other "adult" businesses. It wants to demolish the property and replace it with a $20-million cultural centre sheathed in glass and lights, a move the city hopes will take some of the XXX out of Montreal's traditional red-light district and help launch a reborn entertainment district in its place.

The question is: Is it safer having a neighborhood like this or should renewal efforts try to chase them away.

In Winnipeg's experience, prostitution and bathhouses were chased away from the Exchange District. Unfortunately, the prostitutes have just migrated into neighborhoods now. Moreover, crack houses, speak easies and the like have moved to vulnerable neighborhoods.

[DogOnPorch]

Street prostitution ruins neighborhoods. I freakin' hate it. Keep them in a seperate zone where the losers can pick them up...perhaps catch something for their troubles.

No Julia Roberts...just cracked-out needle bags and their parasite pimps. Maybe Montreal whores are different...

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He's mad that trusts in the tameness of a wolf, a horse's health, a boy's love, or a whore's oath.

---William Shakespeare: King Lear

[M.Dancer]

Street prostitution ruins neighborhoods. I freakin' hate it. Keep them in a seperate zone where the losers can pick them up...perhaps catch something for their troubles.

No Julia Roberts...just cracked-out needle bags and their parasite pimps. Maybe Montreal whores are different...

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He's mad that trusts in the tameness of a wolf, a horse's health, a boy's love, or a whore's oath.

---William Shakespeare: King Lear

That neighbourhood is perhaps one of the sleaziest this side of NYC....It makes Amserdam's Red Light Neighbourhood seem healthy

[Charles Anthony]

Forget about judging the sleaziness of Winnipeg or Montreal or New York or any other city. I am sure people will find sleaze anywhere they want throughout the world or take advantage of the business opportunity.

This:

MONTREAL --

Now, city officials have the strip earmarked for a makeover. The city has just cleared a legal hurdle to expropriate a building at the intersection that houses a peep show and other "adult" businesses. It wants to demolish the property and replace it

worries me. Let us look at this situation objectively -- assuming we confer the honor and authority of statesmen to confiscate anybody's property. My guess is that this proposed cultural center will be no more desirable nor profitable than the current peep show. Otherwise, why would the current property owner have not done it himself?

The question is: Is it safer having a neighborhood like this or should renewal efforts try to chase them away.

Personally, I think it is safer to have "sleazy" behavior out in the open. That current cross-street is probably the ideal spot.

[Riverwind]

My guess is that this proposed cultural center will be no more desirable nor profitable than the current peep show. Otherwise, why would the current property owner have not done it himself?

You cannot make that assumption. Few business people would be willing to be the first to 'revitialize' a neighborhood unless they believe that others will follow. Actions like this one send a signal to the business community that may have ignored the are otherwise.

[Charles Anthony]

I agree.

Actions like this one send a signal to the business community that may have ignored the are otherwise.

However, this "signal" can be sent with different actions.

The property did not have to be expropriated. It could have been bought.

Alternatively, the statesmen could have also offered a generous grant to the property owner.

[Riverwind]

The property did not have to be expropriated. It could have been bought.

An expropriation is a purchase. However, I agree we need a better mechanism to calculate the purchase price. The market value of a rundown property is often much less than its true worth to the current owner. I would like to see a mechanism that bases compensation on the 'replacement cost' rather than the market value.

[Charles Anthony]

An expropriation is a purchase.

No. I insist on being a stickler. The term "expropriation" explicitly implies the property owner must accept the government's offer.

However, I agree we need a better mechanism to calculate the purchase price. The market value of a rundown property is often much less than its true worth to the current owner. I would like to see a mechanism that bases compensation on the 'replacement cost' rather than the market value.

I do not understand. Please explain with more details. What do you propose to be different from buying any other real estate?

The way I see it, an effective mechanism already exists: make an offer and bargain.

[Riverwind]

The way I see it, an effective mechanism already exists: make an offer and bargain.

The problem comes down to greed. A property owner who is aware of government plans would have no incentive to settle for a reasonable amount. For this reason the government needs to have the power to expropriate the property if the seller chooses to be unreasonable. That said, this power should never be used lightly and the property owner should receive compensation that would replace the property.

[Charles Anthony]

That said, this power should never be used lightly and the property owner should receive compensation that would replace the property.

How should that be determined?

[Riverwind]

That said, this power should never be used lightly and the property owner should receive compensation that would replace the property.

How should that be determined?

Have a third party (i.e. a court) look at the facts and come up with a price that balances the interests of the public and the property owner. Many disputes are resolved this way and often both parties will claim they lost out but it is preferable to a situation where one party has all of the power.

[DogOnPorch]

That neighbourhood is perhaps one of the sleaziest this side of NYC....It makes Amserdam's Red Light Neighbourhood seem healthy

Sounds nasty. The worst I've seen is

area of East Van...the next worst is oddly enough where I am right now in Northern BC where the taste seems to stray towards child hookers (say 16 and under). It's the start of the infamous Highway of Tears, as well. This is a long stretch of lonely blacktop from Pr George to Pr Rupert where a disturbing number of young women/girls have gone missing over the years. Some say serial killer...some say just a good spot to dump bodies. Many of the victims are termed "at risk".

The question is: Is it safer having a neighborhood like this or should renewal efforts try to chase them away.

In Winnipeg's experience, prostitution and bathhouses were chased away from the Exchange District. Unfortunately, the prostitutes have just migrated into neighborhoods now. Moreover, crack houses, speak easies and the like have moved to vulnerable neighborhoods.

That is exactly what has happened in Pr George. The "industry" moved from the downtown area to the adjacent residential neighborhoods. One street in particular is practically solid crack houses. The interesting thing I've noted is that is hasn't affected all similar size communities in BC this way. Criminal gangs are also a relativly new thing to the region...plus the murder rate is apparently well above the national average. Yay. It's so nuts here at times that you just shake your head. How nuts? Two weeks ago a PG doctor (of radiology) was assaulted and robbed by hooded thugs...right in the X-Ray booth of the Pr George Hospital.

:S

I live quite close to "the action", so this has no doubt tainted my view of the whole thing.

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Prostitution happens to you because of troubles you had. In reality no woman would choose to do that.

---Catherine Deneuve

[jdobbin]

The question is: Is it safer having a neighborhood like this or should renewal efforts try to chase them away.

Personally, I think it is safer to have "sleazy" behavior out in the open. That current cross-street is probably the ideal spot.

I would tend to agree. What inevitably happens is that the red light district is driven into other neighborhoods.