Is it racist to hate Muslim extremists?

[Jerry Galinda]

It means that almost every war now and in the past were racist war.

It means that war Iran - Iraq was racist war ?

War between Protestants and Catholics were racist wars ?

Civil war between Sunni and Shiite – is a racist war ?

Definition of notion – racism - is very important in order to sensible discuss.

[Jerry Galinda]

It means that almost every war now and in the past were racist war.

It means that war Iran - Iraq was racist war ?

War between Protestants and Catholics were racist wars ?

Civil war between Sunni and Shiite – is a racist war ?

Definition of notion – racism - is very important in order to sensible discuss.

[M.Dancer]

It means that almost every war now and in the past were racist war.

No, it doesn't

It means that war Iran - Iraq was racist war ?

If you want to catoragiz a war between to ethinicities as racist, you can, but that is not why they fought.

War between Protestants and Catholics were racist wars ?

THose could be sectarian wars....

Civil war between Sunni and Shiite – is a racist war ?

Potentially.....

Definition of notion – racism - is very important in order to sensible discuss.

[Jerry Galinda]

It means that almost every war now and in the past were racist war.

It was according Your definition !

It means that war Iran - Iraq was racist war ?

If you want to catoragiz a war between to ethinicities as racist, you can, but that is not why they fought.

Arabs hate Persians !

War between Protestants and Catholics were racist wars ?

THose could be sectarian wars....

According Your definition – it was racist war !

“I think it's enough if hatred is directed at an identifiable ethic or sectarian group. In which case, while Bosnians and Serbians are ethnically indentical, both being slavs and both speaking the serbo croatian language , their hate towrds each other was clearly racist”

May be Your definition is too ”sophisticated” to me or my English - language skills are too poor and that’s why Your opinion is not clear for me.

[Guthrie]

Islam is not a race - it’s obvious

Many kinds of people are muslims – many kinds of skin colour .

“completely infantile to defend hate by saying it isn't racism” ????

It means that hate Christians – is a racism ??

Despite the fact that Christians are white ………. and so on.

Using word “racism” – in order to describe hate towards another religion is a kind of PROPAGANDA .

It’s creating the impression that muslims are victims of persecution.

Muslims are victims of persecution - at least that much is clear

the bit about all wars being racist -- I don't think it really matters what you call the war - what does it matter?

racism is, to my definition, falsely using group affiliation to judge a person negatively --

[Rue]

The term "Muslim" has come to mean much more today then just religion. It is used as a catch-phrase or code word for;

1-all people who believe in Islam

2-terrorists from the Middle East who claim to be Muslim

3-an angry man with dark skin, a mustache, a propensity to burn American flags and who looks like Borat.

No one wants to admit it but the word Muslim has become what the word Jew became a long time ago. It covers race, ethnicity, religion, politics and perceived physical characteristics.

Technically Muslims are of every race and skin colour but the definition often used has reverted to an anry guy with a big nose and mustache and dark skin a similiar stereotype to the Jew.

I can not stand it when people talk of Muslims as if they are all the same physical race, all have the same political opinions, and all agree with fundamentalism or terrorism.

Ic an't stand it the same way I can't stand the generalizations about Jews and how any discussion on the Middle East depicts Muslims as terrorists and Israelis as first and foremost Jews joiend in this conspiracy with other Jews to control the world.

Either way it sucks.

That said its very good and healthy to criticize anyone's religion for any reason especially if they use it to condone violence and I believe it is incumbent on us all to criticize and lambast anyone who believes terrorism or violence is an acceptable method of expressing anything.

That said please don't ask me to get riled up and hate Muslism because of a-hole extremists. As far as I am concerned I hate everyone equally. I prefer animals. At least when a horse shits, its genuine and you know where you stand or at least should not stand.

[Canadian Blue]

Rue, good post.

Just to add on, it's fairly hypocritical of us to say that all Muslims, or most Muslims are violent. Especially if we call for violence ourselves. Either way, Muslims are like any other religion, there will always be extremists, and people will always corrupt it in order to suit their own means.

[M.Dancer]

It means that almost every war now and in the past were racist war.

It was according Your definition !

Maybe you should re read my definition...then expalin how wars fought between two homogenous groups would be racist.

The thing is, wars are rarely fought because one group hates another. The Americans rebels did not fight the crown because they hated the British. Rome did not fight Carthage because they hated the Phonecians.....

There fore, while racismis hate based, wars are rarely fought over such juvenile reasons.

[M.Dancer]

It means that almost every war now and in the past were racist war.

It was according Your definition !

Maybe you should re read my definition...then expalin how wars fought between two homogenous groups would be racist.

The thing is, wars are rarely fought because one group hates another. The Americans rebels did not fight the crown because they hated the British. Rome did not fight Carthage because they hated the Phonecians.....

There fore, while racismis hate based, wars are rarely fought over such juvenile reasons.

To add to that, a clear sign that a war is racist is that it is fought in spite of their self interest.

[Figleaf]

Psssssst, Dancer ... you needa preview yer posts.

[moderateamericain]

ModAm

O for christ sakes, Comparing a dislike for Extremist Islamic fundamentalism to Hating gays and women? The three are not even remotely linked.

Actually, that wasn't my argument. I've simply noted a strong correlation between fear of radical Islam and a certain breed of regressive conservatism.

Yeah but that error in the correlation is that it stipulates you have to be a conservative. I know plenty of very liberal people who have an irrational fear of Islam. Besides your too smart to not know what you were insinuating. I digress from the thread. Continue on with your back and forth tizzy fit.

[Guthrie]

ModAm

O for christ sakes, Comparing a dislike for Extremist Islamic fundamentalism to Hating gays and women? The three are not even remotely linked.

Actually, that wasn't my argument. I've simply noted a strong correlation between fear of radical Islam and a certain breed of regressive conservatism.

Yeah but that error in the correlation is that it stipulates you have to be a conservative. I know plenty of very liberal people who have an irrational fear of Islam. Besides your too smart to not know what you were insinuating. I digress from the thread. Continue on with your back and forth tizzy fit.

it doesn't affect the correlation even if you really do know "irrational liberals" --- however, that phrase is an oxymoron as liberalism is guided by rationality

[jbg]

It's interesting that many of those most opposed to Islamic extremism seem to concur with the extremists on many basic principles. Intolerance of "foreign" cultural influences? Check. Disdain, if not outright hatred, for women and homosexuals? Check. Love of "traditional values" (read: ethno-religious chauvanism)? Check. The belief in the utility of violence? Checkaroonie. Hatrded of "weakness," "softeness" and othe r"

feminie" attributes? Check-o-rama. I really wonder why they can't just get along.

I am not opposed to this kind of Muslim immigration, from Dharfur. The people work, are trying to make lives for themselves, become Americans. What the h**l is wrong with that? Link to source, excerpts below.

FORT WAYNE, Ind. — Looking at old pictures taken in the desert sand in the Darfur region of Sudan, Fawzia Suliman pointed to one after the other: mother-in-law, sister, sister-in-law, cousin, and so on.

The last place that Ms. Suliman called home was a grass-topped hut that janjaweed militia members burned to the ground. She offers the scars on her feet as testament to how fast she ran to escape them in the summer of 2005, at the beginning of an unlikely journey that led to an apartment here.

“If I talk to people from Darfur, I say come here,” said Ms. Suliman, 24, who has taken a job making utensils and cups in a plastics factory. “It’s too nice. Everybody knows New York City. But my God, all this is America, too.”

As many as 300 people originally from Darfur are living in Fort Wayne, with others scattered across smaller Indiana cities like Elkhart, South Bend and Goshen. Together, they form one of the largest concentrations of Darfuri in the United States.

The Darfuri in the Midwest stand out because by their own choice — they are not part of a resettlement program — they have skipped the big-city, East Coast introduction to America in favor of settling in a slower-paced agricultural region. Their numbers have increased since the first arrivals in the late 1990s and as the crisis in Darfur has escalated in recent years, with many reaching back to rescue more of their family members and friends.

*snip*

The first Darfuri families drawn to Fort Wayne in the late 1990s were attracted by an abundance of industrial jobs and the city’s extensive web of charities, volunteer church groups and nonprofit social service agencies.

*snip*

Despite the outpouring of support, there have been challenges for the Darfuri in Indiana. Misunderstandings along cultural lines persist, for instance. Africans who eat with their hands, as is their tradition, might draw stares at buffet restaurants, as might women wearing Muslim headdress while at work assembling auto parts. But in interviews, many immigrants from Darfur said they had found mostly peace.

“This place is quiet and the people are kind,” said Khadiga Abdalla, who left Darfur in 2003 and is studying nursing at a community college. “There is no problem here.”

With the $7.85 an hour she earns working in the plastics factory, Ms. Suliman has created her first real home, a place of safety and, to her, overwhelming abundance. She marvels at the central air-conditioning unit that also delivers heat when she is cold, at her refrigerator stocked with eggs and juice and beans. She is appreciative that the sun and rain do not come through her roof.

Her time in Fort Wayne has been peppered with many firsts: first time wearing pants, driving a car, using a fork, saving money in a bank account, not having to walk two hours for fresh water, being able to eat to the point of feeling full.

“One thing I still have a problem with is the nice food in America,” she said. “I keep the pictures of my family on my refrigerator to remember when we could not eat. It makes me sick. I do not like to remember.”

[Jerry Galinda]

Every war, every government need support of society – need “idea”- in order to conduct war.

It cause that before war or during war is created the atmosphere of hate toward enemy.

Very often it’s ordinary and vulgar PROPAGANDA.

The true reasons of war are usually different from what is said.

“two homogenous groups would be racist” ????

Who is homogenous ??

Muslims ??? Americans ???

From what I heard – the worst hate is in a family, the worst wars – civil wars – based on HATE.

That’s why the worst wars are e.g. – in Algeria and between Sunni and Shiite in Iraq.

Besides – from what I know – propaganda before war in Iraq – wasn’t based on hate toward Iraqis.

[Jerry Galinda]

racism is, to my definition, falsely using group affiliation to judge a person negatively --

According your definition – two groups of footballs fans of two different clubs – with the same town – are racist – because they hate each other – they often fight – sometimes kill.

Muslims are victims of persecution ??? Where ????

More muslims kill another muslims in Algeria and Iraq than ………

[Jerry Galinda]

racism is, to my definition, falsely using group affiliation to judge a person negatively --

According your definition – two groups of footballs fans of two different clubs – with the same town – are racist – because they hate each other – they often fight – sometimes kill.

Muslims are victims of persecution ??? Where ????

More muslims kill another muslims in Algeria and Iraq than ………

[M.Dancer]

“two homogenous groups would be racist” ????

yes , explain how a war fought betwen two homogenous groups would be racist?

Like the amarican revolutionary war? Argentinian and Chili? Spanish Civil War......

[Jerry Galinda]

According Your definition - ” two homogenous groups” - “In which case, while Bosnians and Serbians are ethnically indentical, both being slavs and both speaking the serbo croatian language , their hate towrds each other was clearly racist’

Besides was does it mean - “homogenous groups” ? - Germans were homogenous group and Jews were homogenous group.

I’m afraid that You or I - don’t understand what does it means – homogeneous !

According you - wars between two unhomogeneous groups is a racist war ?

Your opinion about this problem is too simplified for me.

Ok. I see - probably I understand ” two homogenous groups” - as two different homogenous groups !

But I know such kind of racism - Liberia - racism between africans !

[M.Dancer]

According Your definition - ” two homogenous groups” - “In which case, while Bosnians and Serbians are ethnically indentical, both being slavs and both speaking the serbo croatian language , their hate towrds each other was clearly racist’

Besides was does it mean - “homogenous groups” ? - Germans were homogenous group and Jews were homogenous group.

I’m afraid that You or I - don’t understand what does it means – homogeneous !

According you - wars between two unhomogeneous groups is a racist war ?

Your opinion about this problem is too simplified for me.

Ok. I see - probably I understand ” two homogenous groups” - as two different homogenous groups !

But I know such kind of racism - Liberia - racism between africans !

Two of the same homogenous group....and war between two non homogenous groups aren't always racist either.....no please, I can talk fairly well without you putting words into my mouth.....but blieve me, it ain't my explanation that's too simple.....

[Jerry Galinda]

Germans were homogenous "group" and Jews were homogenous "group" and Russians were homogenous "group" , many Slavs nations were homogenous "group" and so on.

Some of the wars between these nation had character of racist wars.

Do you see any rule ?

I’m tired your “eloquence”.

[M.Dancer]

Germans were homogenous "group" and Jews were homogenous "group" and Russians were homogenous "group" , many Slavs nations were homogenous "group" and so on.

Some of the wars between these nation had character of racist wars.

Do you see any rule ?

I’m tired your “eloquence”.

You get confused easily.

I think the strict definition of racism is a bit constricting. I think it's enough if hatred is directed at an identifiable ethic or sectarian group. In which case, while Bosnians and Serbians are ethnically indentical, both being slavs and both speaking the serbo croatian language , their hate towrds each other was clearly racist.

[Jerry Galinda]

Germans were homogenous "group" and Jews were homogenous "group" and Russians were homogenous "group" , many Slavs nations were homogenous "group" and so on.

Some of the wars between these nation had character of racist wars.

Do you see any rule ?

I’m tired your “eloquence”.

You get confused easily.

I think the strict definition of racism is a bit constricting. I think it's enough if hatred is directed at an identifiable ethic or sectarian group. In which case, while Bosnians and Serbians are ethnically indentical, both being slavs and both speaking the serbo croatian language , their hate towrds each other was clearly racist.

I'm confused ?

Wasting my time.

Your "definition" of racism is wrong - confirm that you are very young - lack of knowledge.

[Guthrie]

The classic definition of racism is flawed by the presumption that human races really do exist. So racism was, accordingly, a belief that one race is superior to another. Unfortunately, human differences within any given group are greater than differences between any two given groups. Moreover, we could ALL trace our ancestries back to ancestors of every color stripe. The entire concept of, 'Race,' is a lie. There is only one race of men, the human race.

So when someone tells me, hating Muslims is not racism becaus, 'Muslim,' is not a, 'race,' I see the argument as completely superfluous - it doesn't matter that, 'Muslim,' is not a, 'race,' because there are no 'races,' only culturally different groups and IMHO, any prejudice or bigotry demonstrated after the fashion of what others claim to be, 'non-racist hatred' is not a whit different than classic 'racist hatred' - get over it.

get a new defense for such ugly and stale belief systems

[ScottSA]

The classic definition of racism is flawed by the presumption that human races really do exist. So racism was, accordingly, a belief that one race is superior to another. Unfortunately, human differences within any given group are greater than differences between any two given groups. Moreover, we could ALL trace our ancestries back to ancestors of every color stripe. The entire concept of, 'Race,' is a lie. There is only one race of men, the human race.

So when someone tells me, hating Muslims is not racism becaus, 'Muslim,' is not a, 'race,' I see the argument as completely superfluous - it doesn't matter that, 'Muslim,' is not a, 'race,' because there are no 'races,' only culturally different groups and IMHO, any prejudice or bigotry demonstrated after the fashion of what others claim to be, 'non-racist hatred' is not a whit different than classic 'racist hatred' - get over it.

get a new defense for such ugly and stale belief systems

So, we get a treatise on genetics, followed by a ramble on how it doesn't matter whether words make sense because we use words to describe something that doesn't exist but makes no sense anyway because they mean the same thing as what doesn't exist but means something else so we should use words to mean what they don't mean because it means the same and we should get over it. Very concise. Very stimulating. Is there an English translation available or does this only make sense in the original Bafflgabia?

[Jerry Galinda]

Very interesting language exercise for me - thanks.