DogOnPorch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Khatami has no power. My point exactly...thank-you. Where did the reporters say every single person in the stadium was chanting death to America/Britain? You want to play that sort of a stupid game, hey? OK...find the link for me showing that they weren't all chanting "Death to America". Meanwhile, the links I provided claiming tens of thousands of Iranians in a football stadium and hundreds of thousands of Iranians during Jerusalem Day marches chanting "Death to America" stands. Are they all extremists? Or are they moderates? Not many of the "It's a Small World Afterall" crowd want to answer the above questions. Know why? Neither answer suits them. Either theres a hell of a lot of extremists or the moderates there are very extreme...take your pick. Meanwhile...where's the link for the Western crowds chanting "Death to Iran". Forget the CNN polls...where's this crowd chanting? Like I said in a pervious point...side-stepped. You can't find one. I'll save you some time...there isn't one. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any attempt to work out a negotiation or an agreement with the people who were running Iran was doomed to failure. You simply have to understand that there's some people you cannot trust. ---Caspar Weinberger Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
gc1765 Posted April 11, 2007 Report Posted April 11, 2007 Khatami has no power.My point exactly...thank-you. And that point being...? You want to play that sort of a stupid game, hey? OK...find the link for me showing that they weren't all chanting "Death to America". Meanwhile, the links I provided claiming tens of thousands of Iranians in a football stadium and hundreds of thousands of Iranians during Jerusalem Day marches chanting "Death to America" stands. I'm not playing any games, I asked you a very simple question. You claimed that every single person in the stadium was chanting death to america (or whatever) but your links do not say that every person in the stadium was chanting. It's pretty hard to even imagine how the reporters would determine such a thing. Did they go around the entire stadium to make sure that everyone was chanting? Somehow I doubt it...but if you want to make such a claim, you are going to have to back it up. Meanwhile...where's the link for the Western crowds chanting "Death to Iran". Forget the CNN polls...where's this crowd chanting? Like I said in a pervious point...side-stepped. You can't find one. I'll save you some time...there isn't one. Why don't you go back and read what I wrote to M. Dancer. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
DogOnPorch Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 And that point being...? He's been around in Iranian politics since at least the 90s. His 'reforms' are stonewalled by the theocracy. They still punish the rape victims in Iran...and torture Canadian journalists to death. I'm not playing any games, I asked you a very simple question. You claimed that every single person in the stadium was chanting death to america (or whatever) but your links do not say that every person in the stadium was chanting. It's pretty hard to even imagine how the reporters would determine such a thing. Did they go around the entire stadium to make sure that everyone was chanting? Somehow I doubt it...but if you want to make such a claim, you are going to have to back it up. Heads you win...Tails I lose? Hardly. I need not answer the unanswerable. I provided links from reputable sources stating the day's affairs...your turn now. Prove they weren't chanting 'Death to America...Death to Britain etc' if you wish to play this sort of hair-splitting game. Why don't you go back and read what I wrote to M. Dancer. So I guess that's a 'no'. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. ---Sir Winston Churchill Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
gc1765 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 He's been around in Iranian politics since at least the 90s. His 'reforms' are stonewalled by the theocracy. They still punish the rape victims in Iran...and torture Canadian journalists to death. How does this relate to our argument about moderate vs. extremist Muslims? Prove they weren't chanting 'Death to America...Death to Britain etc' if you wish to play this sort of hair-splitting game. I'm not saying they weren't chanting it, I'm saying prove to me that everyone was chanting it. In other words, you are making two different claims: 1) That at least some people were chanting death to america 2) Thateveryone was chanting death to america. I take no issue with #1, you proved that quite nicely, thanks. I take issue with claim #2. Please prove number 2 is true. Your links that you have provided so far have not done this. So I guess that's a 'no'. There's no point in repeating myself. You can respond to the comments I have already written, otherwise I assume you have no rebuttal. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
DogOnPorch Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 How does this relate to our argument about moderate vs. extremist Muslims? He's gone and Mr Dinnerjacket is the new reality. Too bad, as Khatami's field was political philosophy rather than civil engineering. The hardliners hated him...and they're the one's who make the real rules. Ahmadinejad is much more like them...and it shows. Your links that you have provided so far have not done this. Nor will they. This isn't some old event where we can dive into the historical accounts. You have not provided a pinch of evidence that it was just a few bad apples, either. The report says tens of thousands (or 60,000 depending on the source). Where are your reports saying many Iranian moderates looked on horrified as the extremists chanted "Death to America...Death to England" egged on by this guy? An influential cleric hit out at Britain during Friday prayers broadcast on Iran's state radio and tens of thousands of soccer fans reportedly chanted "Death to England" ahead of match in the Iranian capital. Iranian state television later showed footage of a crowd of people chanting anti-British slogans after attending Friday prayers. "Death to England, death to England," the protesters shouted, raising their fists in the air. A crowd of 60,000 soccer fans chanted similar words ahead of a soccer game between two Iranian teams at Tehran's main Azadi (Freedom) stadium and demanded that Iran break off relations with Britain, the Fars news agency said. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Pope should fall on his knees in front of a senior Muslim cleric and try to understand Islam. ---Ahmad Khatami Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
ScottSA Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 I'm not saying they weren't chanting it, I'm saying prove to me that everyone was chanting it. This is a ridiculous argument. Is it the best you can do? Perhaps only a few hundred "extremists" were chanting it? 75%? 92%? Quote
White Doors Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 2) Thateveryone was chanting death to america. I don't think that ALL of the Krauts were shouting death to Canada at Vimy ridge either.. Does that change the context? Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
gc1765 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Too bad, as Khatami's field was political philosophy rather than civil engineering. The hardliners hated him...and they're the one's who make the real rules. So, I take it you agree with me that Khatami and his supporters are moderates, i.e. 80% of Iran? The report says tens of thousands (or 60,000 depending on the source). The link says the crowd was 60,000 people. It doesn't say anything about how many of them were chanting. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gc1765 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Perhaps only a few hundred "extremists" were chanting it? 75%? 92%? You tell me. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
DogOnPorch Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 So, I take it you agree with me that Khatami and his supporters are moderates, i.e. 80% of Iran? Khatami is no longer in power. He also only got into power due to the capture of the women's and student's votes...two groups I'd term 'moderate' in Iran by default, I guess. So I agree. He lost power for two reasons: 1) Daring to shake hands with Isreali President Moshe Katsav. 2) The Council of Guardians: both for rigging the 2004 election and thwarting Khatami's every move. He is an interesting fellow...too bad he was more or less a lame duck for his 8 years. Had the 2004 elections been fair and the Guardians (hisss) non-existent, Dinnerjacket would have never been elected and we'd probably not be in this mess of nuclear weapons, Holocaust denial and assorted other crap. The link says the crowd was 60,000 people. It doesn't say anything about how many of them were chanting. ...and you provide no links at all saying otherwise. So who wins in court, judge? :D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you are the nation, then we are the nation's enemy. ---Mohammad Khatami Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
gc1765 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 He lost power for two reasons: 1) Daring to shake hands with Isreali President Moshe Katsav. 2) The Council of Guardians: both for rigging the 2004 election and thwarting Khatami's every move. Well, actually, he lost power because under the constitution, he was not allowed to seek a third term (kinda like the U.S.). The reason why reformists lost is debatable. I'm sure it has something to do with feeling threatened, and electing a hardliner who they thought would best defend against foreign threats. See post #58 in this thread. I'm not sure whether or not the 2004 elections were rigged or not, but I wouldn't be surprised. I'll be sure to read more about it, thanks . P.S. by rigging, do you mean banning candidates, or was there a problem with the actual voting? I know a lot of candidates were banned... He is an interesting fellow...too bad he was more or less a lame duck for his 8 years. Had the 2004 elections been fair and the Guardians (hisss) non-existent, Dinnerjacket would have never been elected and we'd probably not be in this mess of nuclear weapons, Holocaust denial and assorted other crap. I agree, it would have been nice to see another reformer elected. I have faith that when Iranians stop feeling threatened, that is when all of this "axis of evil" rhetoric ends, they will re-enter the path to reform. This is yet one more reason why the Iraq war was such a huge mistake and it is kinda related to my signature. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
DogOnPorch Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 I wasn't aware of term limitations. Thanks. Aye, the Council of Guardians is appointed by the Supreme Leader. They banned most every reformer from running in the 2004 election...voila...a Hardliner in the President's chair. Dangling chad city...lol. ---------------------------------------------- A public man must never forget that he loses his usefulness when he as an individual, rather than his policy, becomes the issue. ---President Richard M. Nixon Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
gc1765 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
DogOnPorch Posted April 12, 2007 Report Posted April 12, 2007 Iraq war was such a huge mistake and it is kinda related to my signature. Yeah...you gotta wonder about that one. Iraq makes Viet-nam seem like a good idea. The US military had no doubt about being able to take out the Iraqi military...but even warned that protracted partisan style warfare would lead to another Indochina. Bush Jr isn't clever like daddy, unfortunately...you must fight wars to win. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over. ---General William Tecumseh Sherman Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.