RCMP Under Fire

[jdobbin]

Not sure why this wasn't talked about yesterday.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Some senior RCMP personnel have made allegations of a high-level coverup in their attempts to investigate the misuse of group insurance and pension funds at the national police force.

"The RCMP -- right up at the top -- to make allegations of corruption, mismanagement, falsifying minutes and so on within the RCMP? We were astounded," John Williams, the Alberta Conservative MP who chairs the House of Commons public accounts committee, told CTV News.

I think this is well beyond what a House committee can investigate. Normally, I think something like this would be turned over to the RCMP but what do you do when it is the RCMP being investigated? Can a judge really do the job?

[Charles Anthony]

This sort of goes against the "final arbitrator" justification for state monopolized justice.

[Catchme]

Some senior RCMP personnel have made allegations of a high-level coverup in their attempts to investigate the misuse of group insurance and pension funds at the national police force.

"The RCMP -- right up at the top -- to make allegations of corruption, mismanagement, falsifying minutes and so on within the RCMP? We were astounded," John Williams, the Alberta Conservative MP who chairs the House of Commons public accounts committee, told CTV News.

I think this is well beyond what a House committee can investigate. Normally, I think something like this would be turned over to the RCMP but what do you do when it is the RCMP being investigated? Can a judge really do the job?

Too funny, actually it isn't it is down right pathetic, Stockwell can't do a thing he is being investigated himself by the RCMP, and has not stepped down yet, but combined with this as well, he certainly should be today! So much for CPC accountability, it is getting really quite evident they are worse than the Liberals with accountability/corruption issues.

Zacardelli, has already resigned in shame, the deputy RCMP commissioner has rersigned, and now the Human Resources Manager.

Mar 29, 2007 04:30 AM

Tonda MacCharles

Ottawa Bureau

OTTAWA–The RCMP's top human resources manager stepped down yesterday hours after RCMP officers, past and present, came forward to publicly back allegations of corruption and coverup in the force in shocking testimony before a parliamentary committee.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/197286

And Harper wants the RCMP to choose judiciary?!

[jdobbin]

This sort of goes against the "final arbitrator" justification for state monopolized justice.

You think we should have private police?

[jdobbin]

Too funny, actually it isn't it is down right pathetic, Stockwell can't do a thing he is being investigated himself by the RCMP, and has not stepped down yet, but combined with this as well, he certainly should be today! So much for CPC accountability, it is getting really quite evident they are worse than the Liberals with accountability/corruption issues.

And Harper wants the RCMP to choose judiciary?!

I think that an investigation needs to be done for the sake of the honest and hard working members of the force but how to do it properly?

[Borg]

Well , the way I see it - let's go back a few years.

Annie made the Commish an Assistant Deputy Minister if memory serves me correctly.

Prior to this there was a separation of police and state.

In order to clear up this mess I believe it important to make the Commish independant again - preventing political interference and influence.

When someone gets into the pen with pigs he is bound to get dirty. The Commish position has become far too political.

I have a problem with the fox investigating the hens - perhaps there should be a little less buddy buddy in the head shed.

No matter how this investigation takes place the potential for political interference is too great.

Borg

[Figleaf]

The range and extent of financial corruption, inquiry stonewalling, resignation of the leader, deaths of suspects in custody, specious search warrants against journalists, strange deaths of Mounties on duty, and suspicious interventions in elections leads to an obvious question.

Can the RCMP be trusted?

[geoffrey]

I think that an investigation needs to be done for the sake of the honest and hard working members of the force but how to do it properly?

Get Sheila Fraser on it.

[jdobbin]

Get Sheila Fraser on it.

That deals with financial aspect of it. It doesn't deal with the criminal element or compel people to testify.

[searchingforaformerclearity]

Layton makes a good point:

"There's no powers on the part of the inquiring individual to compel people to tell the truth, so we believe that it's a half measure and half measures are not good enough when it comes to ensuring that our RCMP, our national police force, has the kind of respect and confidence that the hardworking members deserve to have from the public."

[geoffrey]

Get Sheila Fraser on it.

That deals with financial aspect of it. It doesn't deal with the criminal element or compel people to testify.

Appoint Sheila as the Leviathan then. I can't imagine a better person for the job.

Seriously though. Your going to have a hard time compelling people to testify. Did the Liberals say that was attack on civil liberties to compel witnesses? Hmm. Oh well. I suppose that's why the conservatives are in charge today. Who investigates?

Who normally investigates the RCMP? I know the RCMP will investigate other departments, but would the OPP or someone step up and investigate the RCMP?

It's tough, I think the RCMP generally has jurisdiction on such matters, so there might not be alot of qualified provincial or civil police officers to investigate pension fraud.

So maybe it's best to leave it to the auditor general, who can report their findings to the OPP or something like that??

[jdobbin]

Appoint Sheila as the Leviathan then. I can't imagine a better person for the job.

Seriously though. Your going to have a hard time compelling people to testify. Did the Liberals say that was attack on civil liberties to compel witnesses? Hmm. Oh well. I suppose that's why the conservatives are in charge today. Who investigates?

Who normally investigates the RCMP? I know the RCMP will investigate other departments, but would the OPP or someone step up and investigate the RCMP?

It's tough, I think the RCMP generally has jurisdiction on such matters, so there might not be alot of qualified provincial or civil police officers to investigate pension fraud.

So maybe it's best to leave it to the auditor general, who can report their findings to the OPP or something like that??

I can't recall the Liberals saying it was against civil liberties not to compel testimony. What was the instance?

The auditor would still have to make recommendation to a legal authority at some point.

I suppose a judge might do but then we still may have to some sort of police involvement.

It isn't uncommon for one police force to investigate another at its invitation. Edmonton has done it for Winnipeg.

It is quite the mess.

[geoffrey]

I can't recall the Liberals saying it was against civil liberties not to compel testimony. What was the instance?

The rejection of that exact anti-terrorism provision.

It is quite the mess.

Agreed.

What is CSIS doing these days now that we aren't fearing Soviet invasion? They handle cases of international business fraud and stuff involving Canadians. They might just be the ones to call on for this one.

[August1991]

In the final week of August, 2001, nine members of the RCMP brass up to the rank of deputy commissioner jetted off to a luxurious New Brunswick resort for unspecified "meetings" with each other, and a round or two of golf at the five-star St. Andrew's country club.

By the time their score cards and expense accounts had been tallied, the happy Horsemen had trotted up bills of more than $8,000 a day.

The good news is the Mounties were not directly taking Canadian taxpayers for a musical ride.

The bad news is these high-ranking leaders of Canada's national law-enforcement agency were paying for their luxury golf retreat by sucking funds from the pension savings of the 26,000 dedicated men and women under their command.

Worse, most were connected to the RCMP board specifically entrusted with ensuring the Mounties' pensions funds are protected and prudently administered.

Greg Weston

It has been suggested that the RCMP management turned a blind eye to the activities of Chretien and he turned a blind eye to the activities of the RCMP management.

[jdobbin]

It has been suggested that the RCMP management turned a blind eye to the activities of Chretien and he turned a blind eye to the activities of the RCMP management.

Suggested in this article?

[August1991]

Suggested in this article?

No, it wasn't suggested in this article. But several bloggers have drawn the lines between the dots.

The idea is compelling. It is easy to believe that Chretien knew about the shenanigans in the RCMP pension. Politicians by nature are extreme gossip-mongers. Gossip, rumour and information are their stock in trade. Nobody gets into the political game unless they like to gossip. Chretien was a politician par excellence. Under such circumstances, do you think the RCMP would investigate anything about Chretien?

When Richard Nixon was in trouble, his first move was to get the FBI to back off. To make his request credible, he got the directors of the CIA and the FBI on board.

What brought Nixon down was a independent special prosecutor, an independent Senate committee and an independent press. Canada, under the federal Liberals, had none of those things excepting a few independent journalists. Journalists alone would never have brought down Nixon.

And now, we've apparently got one of the Adscam guys on the run.

I don't if anyone really wants a long, thorough investigation of all these allegations. It would unfortunately appear partisan. The RCMP needs stronger, independent oversight.

[jdobbin]

No, it wasn't suggested in this article. But several bloggers have drawn the lines between the dots.

The idea is compelling. It is easy to believe that Chretien knew about the shenanigans in the RCMP pension. Politicians by nature are extreme gossip-mongers. Gossip, rumour and information are their stock in trade. Nobody gets into the political game unless they like to gossip. Chretien was a politician par excellence. Under such circumstances, do you think the RCMP would investigate anything about Chretien?

When Richard Nixon was in trouble, his first move was to get the FBI to back off. To make his request credible, he got the directors of the CIA and the FBI on board.

What brought Nixon down was a independent special prosecutor, an independent Senate committee and an independent press. Canada, under the federal Liberals, had none of those things excepting a few independent journalists. Journalists alone would never have brought down Nixon.

And now, we've apparently got one of the Adscam guys on the run.

I don't if anyone really wants a long, thorough investigation of all these allegations. It would unfortunately appear partisan. The RCMP needs stronger, independent oversight.

I think there was no love lost between Chretien and the RCMP and each would have looked at sinking the other if they could.

In other words, I don't believe it.

[Figleaf]

This sort of goes against the "final arbitrator" justification for state monopolized justice.

Nicely done.

[jdobbin]

Don Martin in the Post today takes the Tories to task about knowing about the RCMP problem for months.

But all committee members were hand-delivered the evidence by RCMP whistle-blowers last fall, carefully indexed and the most damning evidence red-flagged, and even after they were given a preview of their testimony, MPs still stonewalled the push to bring the RCMP scandal out of the shadows.

"Every colleague I spoke to said, ‘Are you sure we want to go there? Remember, this is the RCMP’,” says Liberal MP Borys Wrzesnewskyj “At every key point when the committee voted to deal with the issue, they [Conservatives] blocked it or tried to block it.”

The second-term Etobicoke MP is credited by RCMP whiste-blowers for doggedly pursuing the file and leading the charge to secure their hearing.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj demanded reports used by the Auditor-General be brought forward last December. His motion was rejected by all five Conservative members. He asked to take the matter behind closed doors. He was voted down again.

Not exactly vigilant about doing anything until now.

[August1991]

Suspended RCMP Deputy Commissioner Barbara George can’t be investigated by the Mounties for perjury because her testimony to MPs is protected by parliamentary immunity, her lawyers told the Federal Court on Thursday.

Lawyer David Scott asked Federal Court Judge Daniele Tremblay-Lamer to halt both the internal and criminal investigations the RCMP recently initiated into George’s conduct after she was thrust into the centre of the force’s pension scandal.

“There is no other way to slice it. Based on testimony given under the protection of parliamentary privilege, Deputy Commissioner George was suspended from the force and subject to allegations being investigated,” Scott argued. “We say the court should intervene and protect her from an invasion of this privilege.”

Link

What bothers me with this story is that I (and other taxpayers) will pay all the costs of these children to argue. Taxpayers will pay for the lawyers, the judges, the court recorders, the photocopies and the rent of the courtrooms. If there's a settlement, taxpayers will pay. If someone wins a wrongful dismissal suit, we'll pay. If an RCMP officer is charged with wrongdoing, we'll pay the fine. If there's an enquiry to investigate, we'll pay for it.

Yet as taxpayers, we are completely innocent. We did nothing wrong.

Imagine a divorce suit in which the husband and wife use other people's money to argue. It's madness. What kind of incentives are we setting for future public servants?

Zaccardelli and George accepted the senior titles, the perks and the salaries. They should assume the risks that go with the territory.