Stockwell Day

[gc1765]

*If true* is a big question supposition to make.

Jim Hart does not deny what he said (which is written elsewhere in this thread). If Jim Hart admits it is true then it's not hard to imagine that it probably is true. That's not exactly a huge leap.

[Who's Doing What?]

Well either the CPC are lacking diligence in cleaning up and making sure they have everything in order or the movers should be never hired again. Someone was an idiot for those boxes to be left behind. I don't buy the idea they were stolen.

As for opening them, I wouldn't expect any less from the CPC or the NDP or any other politician.

Reminds me of how the CPC seemed to know everything theLiberals were going to announce during the election campaign a day before the liberals had scheduled a press conference. Just more dirty politics. Neither party is any different, as I have been saying for months.

[gc1765]

Liberal moving company stealing away property belonging to Tories

What exactly did that video prove?

[Michael Bluth]

What exactly did that video prove?

That the documents Holland said were "left behind" were clearly marked to be moved to the PMO by Parliament Hill employees. As Holland confirmed that he opened the box it provides credible evidence for the Speaker to open an investigation into Holland breaching the Parliament of Canada Act.

[gc1765]

That the documents Holland said were "left behind" were clearly marked to be moved to the PMO by Parliament Hill employees. As Holland confirmed that he opened the box it provides credible evidence for the Speaker to open an investigation into Holland breaching the Parliament of Canada Act.

"Clearly Marked"? All I see is some rather plain looking boxes with a few numbers on the side. There is no indication of who owns such boxes.

...at least I didn't see anything in that video that was clearly marked.

[geoffrey]

Actually, I think that's pretty damning. Why are they showcasing the fact that they nosed through confidential files? Sure they found stuff that is completley irrelevant and already investigated (and settled to boot). But why'd they look anyways. Does partisanship override confidentiality?

It's like the burglar finding the pot in someone's house. Should he walk? Aboslutely not.

It's ugly. Dion should really shut Holland up before he destroys what's remaining of the Liberal party's crediability.

[gc1765]

Actually, I think that's pretty damning. Why are they showcasing the fact that they nosed through confidential files? Sure they found stuff that is completley irrelevant and already investigated (and settled to boot). But why'd they look anyways. Does partisanship override confidentiality?

It's like the burglar finding the pot in someone's house. Should he walk? Aboslutely not.

It's ugly. Dion should really shut Holland up before he destroys what's remaining of the Liberal party's crediability.

Show me where there is any indication of who the boxes belonged to.

[geoffrey]

Show me where there is any indication of who the boxes belonged to.

Is it moral to read the receipts contained in a wallet you find on the street?

[Figleaf]

How can you say that when his comments in the fax SAY EXPLICITLY his resignation was contingent on the negotiation?

Has this fax been published?

It's contents have been publicised. Are you disputing that content. Hart didn't, as you will recall.

Was this a fax that was taken out of boxes clearly marked to be moved to the PMO that were siupposedly "found" by Mark Holland in contravention of the Parliament of Canada Act?

That's not what I heard. I heard it was found among papers carelessly abandoned by the Conservatives when they moved out. They probably thought it was a great joke at the time -- forcing the Liberals to clean up their mess (like usual).

Meanwhile, Stockwell Day continues to be in charge of the investigation into himself. Corrupt? Never more corrupt.

[stignasty]

Show me where there is any indication of who the boxes belonged to.

Is it moral to read the receipts contained in a wallet you find on the street?

That's an interesting question.

If you found a wallet, you would presumably open it to see if you could tell who it belonged to. If, while doing that you found a note with plans for a crime that happened in the past, would you just tuck that back into the wallet and return it to the owner, or would you give it to the police?

[scribblet]

Scott Reid to Mark Holland and Marlene Jennings: Thieves and Liars!

A remarkable delivery in the House of Commons yesterday, when Conservative MP Scott Reid went after Liberal MPs Mark Holland and Marlene Jennings, accusing them of theft, of lying, and of being in contempt of Parliament.

Go Scott Reid

Full text of Reid's speech to the House: http://stevejanke.com/archives/220944.php

it was probably a pre-existing label. That suggests that these documents were not in fact found in locked or unlocked drawers, cabinets and so on, but rather were actually in these boxes from the very start. That is one thing.

[gc1765]

If you found a wallet, you would presumably open it to see if you could tell who it belonged to. If, while doing that you found a note with plans for a crime that happened in the past, would you just tuck that back into the wallet and return it to the owner, or would you give it to the police?

Exactly.

If I found an umarked (and no a few numbers doesn't count as marked) box in my office, I'd open it to see what's inside before I decided what to do with it. What else would you do? Throw it in the garbage without even knowing what's inside?

[scribblet]

They didn't need to open the boxes, they were clearly marked for transportation, obviously they were intercepted on the way to the new offices. You think the thieves actually put the labels on?

[Martin Chriton]

That's an interesting question.

If you found a wallet, you would presumably open it to see if you could tell who it belonged to. If, while doing that you found a note with plans for a crime that happened in the past, would you just tuck that back into the wallet and return it to the owner, or would you give it to the police?

A better analogy would be you see someone drop *their* wallet. Would you open it up first before giving it back (or in Hollands case not give it back at all)?

[gc1765]

All this talk about not needing to open the boxes to find out who they belonged to....

...and yet no one has been able to show me any indication or "clear markings" about who they belonged to.

Still waiting...

[ScottSA]

There seems to be a great deal of confusion around here as to what happened, so I'll repost this:

It says 145 Well (Wellington Building) where the opposition research offices were, and its directed to the office of CRG in the same building.

Here's how things work around there: Because of the overlay of unfettered government unionism around Parliament Hill, the boxes have to be transported by union members, after they are labelled by the owners. It is functionally impossible for a box to be "left behind" and then discovered months later, well after the transition team has moved in, cleaned up, and set up their own offices. When the Reform Party moved into the NDP Research offices on Sparks Street in 1993, the NDP had long before moved out. Their filing cabinets still had labels on the file drawers, but the contents had long ago been boxed and moved. Had we found a box with a moving sticker on it, the first order of business would be to call whichever union was in charge of moving boxes and get them to move it.

For the folks who make an analogy to a wallet, there is no need to open a wallet if it's not only taped shut, but has the owners name address and telephone number taped clearly on the outside of it. The box has the yellow moving sticker clearly visible on the outside, saying where it came from and where it was supposed to go.

I suspect, from seeing how things work around that union-infested neck of the woods, that the boxes were left on a trolley in the corridor of Wellington, and a Liberal member simply walked by and scooped a box or two. Maybe more, for all we know. Security is incredibly lax on the Hill...all staff have access to everything...the little green P pass allows everyone unfettered access to everything.

[stignasty]

I suspect, from seeing how things work around that union-infested neck of the woods, that the boxes were left on a trolley in the corridor of Wellington, and a Liberal member simply walked by and scooped a box or two. Maybe more, for all we know. Security is incredibly lax on the Hill...all staff have access to everything...the little green P pass allows everyone unfettered access to everything.

The whole box label controversy ignores the point that the minister was paid to vacate his seat for Stockwell Day. Even if the Liberals went into a box marked for moving, how does that change the fact that the evidence exists of wrongdoing.

That the conservatives have begun to argue about the box label makes me more likely to believe that the original accusations were correct.

[gc1765]

For the folks who make an analogy to a wallet, there is no need to open a wallet if it's not only taped shut, but has the owners name address and telephone number taped clearly on the outside of it. The box has the yellow moving sticker clearly visible on the outside, saying where it came from and where it was supposed to go.

Did the boxes have the owner's name and address and telephone taped clearly on the outside of it. This is the question I keep asking, and it keeps getting evaded. If yes, please show me where. If no, your analogy is nothing but a lie.

[scribblet]

So far it is only allegations, and considering how the documents were obtained I would say they are suspect.

All this talk about not needing to open the boxes to find out who they belonged to....

...and yet no one has been able to show me any indication or "clear markings" about who they belonged to.

Still waiting..

Clearly you havn't read the links and the markings on the boxes, not to mention that they (libs.) knew who owned them and who to return the 'lost' documents to.

[gc1765]

Here's how things work around there: Because of the overlay of unfettered government unionism around Parliament Hill, the boxes have to be transported by union members, after they are labelled by the owners. It is functionally impossible for a box to be "left behind" and then discovered months later, well after the transition team has moved in, cleaned up, and set up their own offices.

Yes, mistakes are "impossible" to happen, especially when unions are involved.

I suspect, from seeing how things work around that union-infested neck of the woods, that the boxes were left on a trolley in the corridor of Wellington, and a Liberal member simply walked by and scooped a box or two. Maybe more, for all we know. Security is incredibly lax on the Hill...all staff have access to everything...the little green P pass allows everyone unfettered access to everything.

I could just as easily speculate that Harper himself gave the boxes to Mark Holland as a birthday present...but that doesn't mean either one of us is correct

[stignasty]

So far it is only allegations, and considering how the documents were obtained I would say they are suspect.

That's the problem that I have. If there were suspicions about the validity of the document itself I would agree with you. However, the document seems authentic, regardless of how it was obtained

[ScottSA]

For the folks who make an analogy to a wallet, there is no need to open a wallet if it's not only taped shut, but has the owners name address and telephone number taped clearly on the outside of it. The box has the yellow moving sticker clearly visible on the outside, saying where it came from and where it was supposed to go.

Did the boxes have the owner's name and address and telephone taped clearly on the outside of it. This is the question I keep asking, and it keeps getting evaded. If yes, please show me where. If no, your analogy is nothing but a lie.

Well I think "lie" is a little strong, but if you get a package with your neighbour's address clearly written on it, do you need to open it to make sure it's not addressed to you?

[ScottSA]

For the folks who make an analogy to a wallet, there is no need to open a wallet if it's not only taped shut, but has the owners name address and telephone number taped clearly on the outside of it. The box has the yellow moving sticker clearly visible on the outside, saying where it came from and where it was supposed to go.

Did the boxes have the owner's name and address and telephone taped clearly on the outside of it. This is the question I keep asking, and it keeps getting evaded. If yes, please show me where. If no, your analogy is nothing but a lie.

Well I think "lie" is a little strong, but if you get a package with your neighbour's address clearly written on it, do you need to open it to make sure it's not addressed to you?

Let's take the anoalogy a bit further to reflect the actual reality. If you move into a house, and you find a box sitting on the floor, and the box has a sticker on it saying "deliver to" and then the address you know is where the former owners have moved, do you have to open the box to make sure it's not yours?

[newbie]

The whole box label controversy ignores the point that the minister was paid to vacate his seat for Stockwell Day. Even if the Liberals went into a box marked for moving, how does that change the fact that the evidence exists of wrongdoing.

Aah, the famous Conservative red herring.

[jdobbin]

Here's a scenario:

Conservatives find thick envelope sent from a Liberal to someone in Quebec. A quick look inside reveals cash.

They:

1) forward it to the addressee on the envelope because to do otherwise would be wrong.

2) forward it to the RCMP.

I think we know the answer.

In any event, it looks like the only people concerned that the Liberals "stole" documents appear to be on this forum.

I have no idea if the RCMP have taken receipt of the documents but if they have, would they be the recipients of stolen property?