Parents Beware!

[betsy]

This segment of W-Five had only bolstered my suspicion that some schools/teachers are irresponsibly endangering the health of some children. In the years of doing daycare, approximately 8 of my children had been "diagnosed" having ADHD by their school. They all came from the same school....and most, if not all, had been with one particular teacher. Three of these children do not need medication. All three do not have ADHD, as far as I'm concerned. They're normal active children! And my verdict had been backed up by my voluntary "trial" by assessing through observations how these children behave in my daycare. I do not know if all of the other children really needed medication...for unfortunately, I only became aware after reading about the dangerous side-effects of these medications.

The latest child "diagnosed" by the teacher to allegedly have ADHD is an 8 year old boy I have today. I had advised his mom to resist the school's pressure...which she did. Her boy had just transferred from a Catholic school and she said he had no problems there at all.

He was rambunctious and sort of "out of control" the first day in the daycare. But through discipline, in only a week after.....he is now just like any normal boy, and he is very smart! His mom also told me she's getting positive reports about him in school now, and they had stopped talking of Ritalin.

Some teachers and some schools are just plainly...and simply... taking the easy way out....instead of doing their jobs in teaching and instilling discipline in class!

Check this segment out (you can watch the video segment I think). One interviewed single mom was pressured to the point of being threatened by the teacher about calling Children's Aid Society. Single parents are probably more easily cowed or pressured into this.

http://www.ctv.ca/wfive

“A Convenient Diagnosis” (ADHD children in school)

"When Joshua Lourie was seven, he started acting out in class. His school sent him for a psychological assessment and he was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Not unusual, as estimates say that between 3 to 7 per cent of Canada's more than seven million children are diagnosed with ADHD.

Joshua's mother Janette says, "The school had suggested that I put him on Ritalin and this is when he was about the age of six, going on seven. They put a lot of pressure on me to take him to the doctor, get him on Ritalin." She refused, but that was not the end of it.

Using data received from IMS Health Canada, an agency that tracks the use of prescription medications, W-FIVE discovered that in 2006, over one million prescriptions for ADHD medications, drugs like Ritalin, Adderall and Concerta, were written for children under the age of 18. And there were over 300,000 prescriptions filled for anti-depressants (SSRIs). Some people are increasingly worried about the sheer volume of these prescriptions.

Marty McKay, a psychologist who has treated and assessed children for over 30 years, believes that "Ninety per cent of children diagnosed as ADHD are misdiagnosed and drugged for no appropriate reason." She points the finger of misdiagnosis at the school system and the psychiatric industry.

Teachers, she believes, are not qualified to make these diagnoses, but do so regularly. They are in fact being asked to assess children through the use of psychiatric rating scales in which they check off behaviors. Check off too many behaviours and it can lead to a child being diagnosed as ADHD. The next step is to refer a child for psychological assessment, which McKay says, generally just rubber-stamps a teacher's diagnosis. "

[EchoesofMourning]

This is part of a growing trend that exists today. It is nearly illegal to discipline a child, and as such many are being raised to believe that there are no consequences for acting in an innapropriate manner. As well, parents are spending less time with their kids. This problem will continue to get worse until something is done about it.

Call me a criminal if you like, but I believe that children need discipline.

[newbie]

Call me a criminal if you like, but I believe that children need discipline.

The problem is in the difference between discipline and a beating. For some there is a very fine line there. In my case I was only spanked once (with a plastic pipe). I think I turned out okay, but I hated my dad for a long time because of his excessive use of force on me, then 9 years old.

[Frankie]

I can speak from experience, and I was hit all the time. And it depended on how severe my actions were. Sometimes I got the belt, other times I got the spoon, or the spank over the knee thing. I got hit at least 3 times a week. And today, I thank my parents for it, because it might not have been easy for them. But it worked. And I think we should continue to practice discipline that way, in certain circumstances. I don't know how far back it goes, but it seems like it's been around for a long time, and it works, so why stop now?

And as for the ADHD thing, It's true that the kids are "out of control", but it's not ADHD. They just need discipline.

[Guthrie]

This is part of a growing trend that exists today. It is nearly illegal to discipline a child, and as such many are being raised to believe that there are no consequences for acting in an innapropriate manner. As well, parents are spending less time with their kids. This problem will continue to get worse until something is done about it.

Call me a criminal if you like, but I believe that children need discipline.

hitting children is criminal - children need good models - brutality breeds only more brutality, that much is certain - people who beat children harm those children and harm society at large

if you suggest hitting children is good discipline you are a 'criminal'

[Mad_Michael]

I've always considered ADD to be a middleclass phenomena - an attempt to medicalise parental failure as a way of protecting the feelings failed parents.

I've never seen any evidence to suggest otherwise.

[EchoesofMourning]

hitting children is criminal - children need good models - brutality breeds only more brutality, that much is certain - people who beat children harm those children and harm society at large

if you suggest hitting children is good discipline you are a 'criminal'

This seems to be the prevalent view in today's society. Perhaps you would care to explain how, using a complete lack of physical discipline, we could instill this vital value into today's children?

That fact is that every method concievable has been tried, to little or no success, and children grow worse as time passes. Find a functional adult, and you will find someone who has had physical discipline imposed upon them at one time or another.

When we, as a society, remove this from the process of raising our children, we end up with what's going on today. By no means do I support abuse, but the definition of abuse has run rampant - there is no way an ordinary spanking is abuse.

[newbie]

I've always considered ADD to be a middleclass phenomena - an attempt to medicalise parental failure as a way of protecting the feelings failed parents.

I've never seen any evidence to suggest otherwise.

Best do some education. ADD is an organic problem.

[newbie]

When we, as a society, remove this from the process of raising our children, we end up with what's going on today. By no means do I support abuse, but the definition of abuse has run rampant - there is no way an ordinary spanking is abuse.

Define "ordinary."

[guyser]

This seems to be the prevalent view in today's society. Perhaps you would care to explain how, using a complete lack of physical discipline, we could instill this vital value into today's children?

That fact is that every method concievable has been tried, to little or no success, and children grow worse as time passes. Find a functional adult, and you will find someone who has had physical discipline imposed upon them at one time or another.

When we, as a society, remove this from the process of raising our children, we end up with what's going on today. By no means do I support abuse, but the definition of abuse has run rampant - there is no way an ordinary spanking is abuse.

Most physical discipline seems to stem from anger. Discipline while an adult is angry is abuse.Parents have used this as a crutch because they lose it. If you want to go back to the old days, be careful what you wish for , because all the hidden ills of society comes with it. We never talked about sexual abuse , spousal abuse, child abuse.

There are many other forms of discipline available. It does not have to be from violence to a child. Perhaps we need to spend more time with the kids , teaching right and wrong on an ongoing basis .Stop using our schools as babysitting classes . Feed our kids better, stop feeding them junk food and anything that has HFCS which in my opinion is making kids fat.

Remove a vital component of a childs life as discipline. He/she loves X box ..?...take it away. They love to play sports, then take a game or two away. It if nothing else it ingrains in the kid the fact that they lose something. A whack on the ass is over in 15 seconds , what good is that?

Yes my dad was the disciplinarian , and yes he did spank me a few times, but I knew then that it would be over in a matter of a minute. But when they denied me my love-playing hockey-that hurt a lot more than a whack on the bum.

An ordinary spanking is violence against another person. or in other words, abuse.

[ceemes]

This is part of a growing trend that exists today. It is nearly illegal to discipline a child, and as such many are being raised to believe that there are no consequences for acting in an innapropriate manner. As well, parents are spending less time with their kids. This problem will continue to get worse until something is done about it.

Call me a criminal if you like, but I believe that children need discipline.

I concur.

When my sister dropped her first, she swore and cursed that she would never swat her darling little angel on the backside for misbehaving, opting instead to "rationalize" with the obviously intelligent small person. I think that lasted for all of five minute after the rotten little monster entered into it terrible twos.

The kid has actually reached the age of 16 and apart from being into the punk Gothic style, if pretty well rounded and responsible. His step-dad ever taught him how to hunt and handle a rifle responsibly. Guess the odd spanking didn't really damage his tender young psyche too badly.

[ceemes]

This is part of a growing trend that exists today. It is nearly illegal to discipline a child, and as such many are being raised to believe that there are no consequences for acting in an innapropriate manner. As well, parents are spending less time with their kids. This problem will continue to get worse until something is done about it.

Call me a criminal if you like, but I believe that children need discipline.

hitting children is criminal - children need good models - brutality breeds only more brutality, that much is certain - people who beat children harm those children and harm society at large

if you suggest hitting children is good discipline you are a 'criminal'

Having dealt with and seen the results of your thinking and approach, I would argue that you yourself are the one who is abusing and harming kids. Kids need boundaries and discipline, otherwise they grow up to be spoiled, self-centred little bastard who think only about the immediate gratification of their wants.

There is a fine line between discipline and abuse true, but abuse comes in many forms and one of the most insidious in my opinion it allowing kids to run wild and getting away with all manner of crap without any repercussions. Later in life when they become adults, they are shocked to learn that is ain't always about them and they really aren't all that special. If a kid acts up and refuses to behave, then it is time to apply ones open palm to their backside. It called negative reinforcement and it works.

[newbie]

It is abuse when a 180 pound man "spanks" a 50 pound kid in anger. How many times has spanking occured without anger? The lesson is abuse is okay.

[ceemes]

It is abuse when a 180 pound man "spanks" a 50 pound kid in anger. How many times has spanking occured without anger? The lesson is abuse is okay.

Most spankings are administered by mom's more often then not and consist of a quick swat across the backside.

The lesson kids learn without being disciplined is, it alright to behave like total little shits, to scream and throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way and that they have a right to whatever they want, whenever they want and however they want, all because they are "special". They also learn that there is no punishment or repercussions to be feared from such behavior. And that my fine friend is a worse form of child abuse then an occasional and well deserved swat across the backside.

[newbie]

My point is that many people do not just "swat across the backside." I quit doing it with my first born as soon as I realized anger was involved. My kids are now grown and doing just fine. They are empathetic, non-spoiled adults. It's easy to point out the extremes. I think some of the spoiled behaviour you refer to is the result of latch key kids, or kids with fractured families. To me it's far more important having your mom and dad together in a loving relationship than it is to use aggression against kids.

[guyser]

Kids need boundaries and discipline, otherwise they grow up to be spoiled, self-centred little bastard who think only about the immediate gratification of their wants.

All true. And where in that is spanking? Thats right it isn't.

There is a fine line between discipline and abuse true, but abuse comes in many forms and one of the most insidious in my opinion it allowing kids to run wild and getting away with all manner of crap without any repercussions.

Again true. And where is spanking in there? Thats right it isn't. Boundaries and discipline.

If a kid acts up and refuses to behave, then it is time to apply ones open palm to their backside. It called negative reinforcement and it works.

And THAT is abuse and should not occur.

Doesn't work on dogs, why should it work on higher learning creatures?

Get sterilized . Do it for the children .

[Frankie]

I don't know how the whole world turned upside down in a couple of decades! You people are all nuts! It's not abuse! I garuntee you. Spanking a kid on the butt is not abuse. I got whipped by the belt, and not just on my ass. And I hated it. But today I thank my parents for it. The point is, people have been spanking their kids for generations and generations. My grandfather got it way worse than me, and he lived a happy succesful life, like alot of other average guys during his time. It's only in the past 15 years spanking has stopped been practiced, that we got all these problem child's. Grow up, be an adult and spank your kids.

[newbie]

Grow up, be an adult and spank your kids.

Or grow up, be an adult and control your anger.

[Drea]

Ahhh, but the NON-abusive parent DOES control their anger before doling out a spanking.

He tells his child that he has 10 minutes to think about what he's done and then dad will be in with the belt. This way dad has time to calm down. And for the child -- the anticipation of the spanking is usually much worse than the spanking itself

The abusive parent just does it right there on the spot in the heat of anger.

Spanking does not work for all children but it worked for mine (he got 2 spankings in his life).

"Time out" is a waste of time IMO. Grounding from electronics works awesomely -- for some kids (mine).

[Wilber]

A swat on the backside with an open hand can be a useful tool in extraordinary circumstances. An attention getter so to speak, not punishment. It establishes that there really is a limit to what kind of behavior is tolerable. The more it is used however, the less an impression it will make and the less effective it will be IMO.

[Frankie]

I agree with Drea. Now there's a model parent!

[Drea]

Thanks Frankie

I think the most important thing a parent can do is follow through. If you say no, mean it. And don't cave when the whining begins - no matter how long it lasts! The kid will eventually realize that when you say no, you mean it.

Also with spankings... dad has to go into the child's room and spank him. He said he would. A short spanking is enough... then they can talk about why dad had to do it.

[geoffrey]

And the kid goes on thinking that violence is a great solution to keeping people under control.

[Slavik44]

I absolutely hate how people try to equate spanking with punishment, it is not the only form of punishment, and it is not neccessarily the best form of punishment...it is in fact a risky form of punishment. That is not to say that nothing should be done when kids misbehave, but that "the something" doesn't have to be spanking.

IMHO, spanking is the lazy punishment, oh I can't think of anything better, so I am just gonna smack you. You can be a better parent than that, get creative.

I would like to put a couple caveats into this, I have mentioned this previously and been asked what if your kid sticks his hand near a hot object, would you not swat it away? Yes, of course I would, but I wouldn't define that as spanking.

How many kids are there in the world? How many different personalities do they have? Are they all the same? Is one kid the same as the other? The exact same? Are we all carbon copies of each other? Maybe, a one size fits all punishment is not the answer. Certainly no punishment is even worse. But I think we can do better then physical punishment.

It is lazy, we can see that in this thread...someone critisizes spanking and its as if they are trying to rob the world of the only way to punish children.

some people have talked about waiting ten minutes...

Well let me ask you this, someone says something/does something that really makes you angry. Give yourself ten minutes...are you calmer? Or have you spent ten minutes building your anger up?

Can you control kids with out spanking? Of course you can, I once watched a couple episodes of that Super nanny show. Taking the biggest brats in the world and turning them into well behaved children in less than a week. Using non-violent methods, often taking over from parents who did use spanking and violence as the answer (not to be unfair, often times it was also parents who did nothing).

But maybe the conclusion should be that doing nothing is a horrible choice, and perhaps spanking is not such a great choice either, better than doing nothing...but not the best and certainly not the only option.

Lets face it we don't use the medical practices of people 6,000 years ago, we don't use the political practices of 6,000 years ago, we don't use the civil practices of people 6,000 years ago, we don't use the economic practices of people 6,000 years ago...so why does the so called best (often times painted by proponents as the only) method for child rearing have to come from the bloody dark ages of history?

[ceemes]

Ahhh, but the NON-abusive parent DOES control their anger before doling out a spanking.

He tells his child that he has 10 minutes to think about what he's done and then dad will be in with the belt. This way dad has time to calm down. And for the child -- the anticipation of the spanking is usually much worse than the spanking itself

The abusive parent just does it right there on the spot in the heat of anger.

Spanking does not work for all children but it worked for mine (he got 2 spankings in his life).

"Time out" is a waste of time IMO. Grounding from electronics works awesomely -- for some kids (mine).

Ah yes, the dreaded and much feared, "Wait till you father get home" routine, very effective. The waiting was the worst. The actually spanking itself was usually very minor compared to the waiting.

Some of the anti-spanking aka anti-discipline aka "let Little Johnny express himself, even though little Johnny is a right little bastard needing swift kick up the arse" crowd seem to feel that any form of corporal punishment is evil and abusive. But that is not the case most times. You see your child about to put something in his mouth that they shouldn't, you automatically shout NO! and slap their hands to make them drop it. How is that abusive? I had a nephew who went around biting people, including his baby brother, because he thought it was funny. One day he bit me, so I bit him back, not hard, not enough to break the skin or even make an indention, but enough to get his attention. He learned that biting people is wrong, and that it hurts, and since then he has stopped biting people. Negative reinforcement applied without anger is tool that every parent needs to use at one time or another.

However, beating a kid in anger or just because you had a bad day is abusive and those that do it should be given a taste of their own medicine.