Adel Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 In my previous post my friend Figleaf said that [Religion thrives on ignorance. Without ignorance religion would be a footnote, a fad that people sometimes indulge] and he challenged me to name even ONE fact supports religion… Well I will prove here that some people – called Prophets – delivered messages from the creator… Those holy books have evidences that science support them … Without waisting time I will quote some verses here from one of the holy books - The Holy Quran - and would love to hear you replies…. --------------------- Creation of the universe…the Big Bang… ------------------- Loot at these verse that illiterate man delivered more than 1400 years ago.. [Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?] [Chapter 21 verse 30 ] [And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating (swimming)] [Chapter 21 verse 33] --------------------- Living being creation ------------------- [Allah has created every moving (living) creature from water. Of them there are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills. Verily! Allah is Able to do all things] [Chapter 24 – Verse 45] There are many more… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figleaf Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I have an itch in my left buttock - is it scientifically divine inspiration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Blue Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I just finished reading a book, it's called "Misquoting Jesus", and can be found in any chapters. It show's how the bible is a very human text, and how the bible has changed throughout human history due to simple mistakes, social events, and political motives. I find that the best way to find out what the real roots of a religion are is to study it's history, and find out what the beliefs were of the earliest people. With Christianity for example, we'd find many different sects, some of whom don't believe in immaculate conception, or for that matter the resurrection. Keep in mind that we don't really know what Christ said, since we don't have the original's, simply the copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonardcohen Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 This is not a christian theology forum.Why do invite scorn by posting such questions,you know most people are going to mock you. This is ,in case you haven't noticed a political forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Blue Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Leonardcohen, I'll play Devil's advocate here, this is the religious issues forum. If someone want's to discuss theology, they should be free to do it. But, they shouldn't clutter up the board with topics which have basically the same theme in all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I have not received any answer… Nobody told me how Prophet Mohammed came up with those facts if he was not a prophet sent by the creator of this universe... How Prophet Mohammed did know - more than 1400 years ago-: 1- That the whole universe was one part and them separated… 2- Every living being was created from water One more... We now know that the universe is expanding... well, read the verse from the holy Quran [i created the heaven with great might, and I am expanding it...] [Chapter 51, verse 47]... Sure when you deny the creator, you consider this forum about politics, but when you faced with these striking verses, you start to say this is not religious forum... Simply because you have no answer... Please I want responsible answers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Blue Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 The problem with any text is they are open to interpretation. It's not evidence that he was a prophet. I'm not familiar with all islamic text's, however I'm sure that their are more than a few which can be proven to be scientifically inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I'm not familiar with all islamic text's, however I'm sure that their are more than a few which can be proven to be scientifically inaccurate. I think this is jumping to conclusion without a real background Islamic text is just one holy book called Al Quran [meaning Reading]… it is only one, and it is in Arabic, but you may find it translated in other languages. But the original is just one… This is not the point. The point is to answer my questions…. They, who deny the existence of God, surely they consider prophet as liars… So all prophets came with many miracles that left people with no choice but believe… but the last message from God came when humans were closely reaching their mature stage. That is why prophet Mohammed’s main miracle was a book… full of verses inviting people to acquire knowledge and explore the whole universe… Another scientific fact.. =================== The function of mountains =================== [God placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them] (The Qur'an, 21:31) You can easily notice that the verse stated that mountains have the function of preventing shocks in the Earth. This fact was not known by anyone at the time the Qur'an was revealed. It was in fact brought to light only recently as a result of the findings of modern geology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Blue Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Once again, that's simply jumping to a conclusion. I'm not about to say that one verse show's that a prophet was in the "know" with regards to geology. I'm not trying to trivialize your religion, but I think that it's important to doubt and question some aspects of religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 but I think that it's important to doubt and question some aspects of religion. Let me tell you that your attitude is the best…I really admire your way of thinking and your justice… You are completely free and has the absolute right to doubt and investigate everything until you reach truth Thanks again for this attitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie_ Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 but I think that it's important to doubt and question some aspects of religion. Let me tell you that your attitude is the best…I really admire your way of thinking and your justice… You are completely free and has the absolute right to doubt and investigate everything until you reach truth Thanks again for this attitude But do you recognize, Adel, that reaching the truth might be in conflict with what you believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 More scientific facts about mountains... ============================ With extensions that mountains extend out towards under the ground as well as over the ground, they clench different plates of the earth together like a peg. The Earth's crust consists of plates that are in constant motion. This clenching property of mountains prevents shocks to a great extent, by fixing the earth's crust, which has a very movable structure. It is well known that with extensions that mountains extend out towards under the ground as well as over the ground, they clench different plates of the earth together like a peg… Now read this verse that came more than 1400 years ago... [God placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them] (The Qur'an, 21:31) Mountains movement [that imply earth movement also] [You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds] (The Qur'an, 27:88) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 but I think that it's important to doubt and question some aspects of religion. Let me tell you that your attitude is the best…I really admire your way of thinking and your justice… You are completely free and has the absolute right to doubt and investigate everything until you reach truth Thanks again for this attitude But do you recognize, Adel, that reaching the truth might be in conflict with what you believe? I will absoultely accept fact whatsoever. Just when it is proved to be fact... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Your ignorance of plate tectonics amazes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie_ Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I will absoultely accept fact whatsoever. Just when it is proved to be fact... Me too! We are in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchme Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Well then, surely you can see they are speaking of evolution if they knew every living thing came from water eh! writings of prophets say, are just that documented notes about what a person said. Now whether those persons had access to even more ancient writings is most likely a reality. Also, there has never been proven there was a man Jesus. Christ means to be annoited with knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 writings of prophets say, are just that documented notes about what a person Holy Quran – the holy books of Islam – is a holy book that kept memorized word by word and letter by letter… Prophet Mohammed’s sayings called ‘Sonnah’ are completely different and not considered a message from God. Holy Quran is the message revealed by God to the prophet verse by verse. Now whether those persons had access to even more ancient writings is most likely a reality. It is well know that prophet Mohammed was illiterate and that is a miracle by itself to convey that miraculous holy book without even be able to read and write…. For ancient writings, even people from all over the world 1400 years ago did not know what I have mentioned here about scientific facts… In summary so far I have mentions verses that tell people that : 1- The heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before God clove them asunder [big bang] 2- God has made from water every living thing. 3- God created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating (swimming) 4- Universe is expanding 5- God created Mountains as pegs [so clench different plates of the earth together do not move] 6- Mountains movement Well so far, what kind of scientific knowledge was available more than 1400 years ago that let an illiterate man tell people that? Also, there has never been proven there was a man Jesus. Here I am not talking about Jesus… I want some answers about those facts… Is it possible that any human being could know that at the time…? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 More scientific fact from the Holy Quran... ==================== The formation of rain... ==================== The formation of rain takes place in three stages. First, the "raw material" of rain rises up into the air with the wind. Later, clouds are formed, and finally raindrops appear. Now read this verse that was revealed more than 1400 years ago [it is God Who sends the winds which stir up clouds which He spreads about the sky however He wills. He forms them into dark clumps and you see the rain come pouring out from the middle of them. When He makes it fall on those of His slaves He wills, they rejoice] (The Qur'an, 30:48) [Have you not seen how God drives along the clouds, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it? And He sends down from the sky mountain masses (of clouds) with cold hail in them, striking with it anyone He wills and averting it from anyone He wills. The brightness of His lightning almost blinds the sight.] (The Qur'an, 24:43) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I will absoultely accept fact whatsoever. Just when it is proved to be fact... I suggest reading the book The Bible Unearthed. It is a fascinating alternative to common held beliefs about the old testatment. There are many surprises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchme Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Adel the Hopi and other aboriginal peoples, and other cultures also have the creation myths in their oral histories. Many, if not ALL, also had a God(s) to explain the unknown, or the unknowable. And what butressed this creator myth may have been incidental recounting of histories, or portioons of, from earlier times. Again, people wrote the works you are speaking of based upon who knows what, maybe prophecy, intuitive grasp, or hidden knowledge. And after all what is Holy? Because there is no such man as Jesus that has been proven to exist, you cannot leave that fact out of this discussion, as you are speaking of validity of Books that contain beliefs in mythology, or passed down history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Okay for starters I have again reported you for plagarism, please take the lesson and stop doing it. ---------------------- Anyways Mountains.... Honestly I am shocked at your ignorance, like literally shocked.... This is the verse you posted concerning mountains.... God placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them] (The Qur'an, 21:31) This is wrong... Infact if we look at converging plate boundaries particularly subduction zones we would find that mountains exist as a result of the oceanic crust being subducted under other crust....The earth moving under the earth. Next..... With extensions that mountains extend out towards under the ground as well as over the ground, theyclench different plates of the earth together like a peg. The Earth's crust consists of plates that are in constant motion. This clenching property of mountains prevents shocks to a great extent, by fixing the earth's crust, which has a very movable structure. This is also wrong... An even elementary understanding of plate tectonics would tell us this is wrong.... Why? Mountains created at converging plate boundaries...(Himilayas and the Cascades) Where plates are pushing towards each other or into each other. Mountains cannot glue or peg these plates together...because these plates are being propelled together and mountains are simply a bi-product of this process. At diverging plate boundaries, you get rift zones...This can be seen in The Great rift Valley in East Africa. Key word being valley. Not mountain. Plates pulling apart...try taking a piece of bread and pulling it apart...no mountains. Likewise at the mid atlantic ridge...we have two plates being pushed apart....this is the well documented case of sea floor spreading...likewise not being held together by mountains...Instead new magma pushes it's way up through the crust, hardens, and new magma comes up pushes the old rock and hardens. We get rock that is created and is pushing plates apart not binding them together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 More scientific fact from the Holy Quran...==================== The formation of rain... ==================== The formation of rain takes place in three stages. First, the "raw material" of rain rises up into the air with the wind. Later, clouds are formed, and finally raindrops appear. Now read this verse that was revealed more than 1400 years ago [it is God Who sends the winds which stir up clouds which He spreads about the sky however He wills. He forms them into dark clumps and you see the rain come pouring out from the middle of them. When He makes it fall on those of His slaves He wills, they rejoice] (The Qur'an, 30:48) [Have you not seen how God drives along the clouds, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it? And He sends down from the sky mountain masses (of clouds) with cold hail in them, striking with it anyone He wills and averting it from anyone He wills. The brightness of His lightning almost blinds the sight.] (The Qur'an, 24:43) You are one funny troll if you believe it is revolutionary thinking to associate rain with clouds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 In my previous post my friend Figleaf said that [Religion thrives on ignorance. Without ignorance religion would be a footnote, a fad that people sometimes indulge] and he challenged me to name even ONE fact supports religion…Well I will prove here that some people – called Prophets – delivered messages from the creator… Those holy books have evidences that science support them … Without waisting time I will quote some verses here from one of the holy books - The Holy Quran - and would love to hear you replies…. --------------------- Creation of the universe…the Big Bang… ------------------- Loot at these verse that illiterate man delivered more than 1400 years ago.. [Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?] [Chapter 21 verse 30 ] [And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating (swimming)] [Chapter 21 verse 33] --------------------- Living being creation ------------------- [Allah has created every moving (living) creature from water. Of them there are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills. Verily! Allah is Able to do all things] [Chapter 24 – Verse 45] There are many more… Actually it is Carbon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Actually it is Carbon-- or carbon copy? Okay for starters I have again reported you for plagarism, please take the lesson and stop doing it.Good call. Report noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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