Canadian Forces Recruiting ads

[Argus]

Btw, did you know that the Canadian Armed Forces has the highest ratio of General officers to non-General officers in the western world? Figures.

You have a source for that gem, Although it is true that we do have a high number of general officers we are far for the highest, check italy's for one.

I think where we lead is in officers to enlisted men - and, possibly NCO's to enlisted men. It's been a while since I've seen the figures but they were quite ridiculous last time I looked.

[Topaz]

I haven't seen the ads but I do know that a General said they need 7000 NEW recuits, every year, just to maintain the level of troops now. I don't think too many young people are in a hurry to join.

[AndrewL]

Neither insurgents nor state armies aim at civilians (with some exceptions), but civilians are always killed at a higher ratio. Terrorists are the ones who taget civilians directly.

That is patently false. Look up definition of terrorist.

The best definition of terrorism is as follow:

The use or threat of violence against civilians for political, ideological, or economic purposes.

Terrorists targets civilians directly, almost exclusively. Some actions by states and some actions by insurgents can be considered terrorist.

But far and away, insurgents and state armies attack soldiers and infrastructure. But with the modern machines of war, and the general cowardice of modern warfare, more civilians get killed in the crossfire (over the last century and into this one) than at any other time in history.

What exactly do you disagree with?

Andrew

[jenny]

You know. I heard something on CBC radio today about one of these recruits, being charged with manslaughter today.Killed another recruit I think is how the story went.Right on the base!

HMMMM

And very very well said catchme

You have a source for that gem, Although it is true that we do have a high number of general officers we are far for the highest, check italy's for one.

And whats with this we?

[jenny]

Turns out it was a Canadian recruit who shot and killed Canada's most recent CASUALTY in Afghanistan.

I bet the TV adds dont mention Canadian soldiers shooting and killing fellow Canadians.

But then again, I havnt seen the comercials

[Figleaf]

Turns out it was a Canadian recruit who shot and killed Canada's most recent CASUALTY in Afghanistan.

I bet the TV adds dont mention Canadian soldiers shooting and killing fellow Canadians.

But then again, I havnt seen the comercials

No, the ads don't mention that. Neither do hockey night in Canada ads mention Todd Bertuzzi's sucker punch, nor do Microsoft ads mention system crashes, nor do Toyota Prius ads mention the 6 month wait, nor do NDP ads mention the absolute vaccuum of practicality in the party, nor do KFC ads mention transfats.

They are ads. Maybe approaching them from that understanding would keep this discussion on a useful plane.

[weaponeer]

Turns out it was a Canadian recruit who shot and killed Canada's most recent CASUALTY in Afghanistan.

I bet the TV adds dont mention Canadian soldiers shooting and killing fellow Canadians.

But then again, I havnt seen the comercials

A Canadian Recruit did NOT shot the recent casualty, as there are NO recruits over there, just trained soldiers. Accidents happen, that's the nature of our business. It is a dangerous business....

[Drea]

They are damn good ads.

... from a person in the advertising business...

with a 13 year old son in air cadets who runs to the TV every time he sees it come on...

If he decides to join the Canadian Forces I will be 100% behind him and 100% proud....

Our soldiers do the dirty work while folks sit on their computers and judge them. Shame on you folks.

[jenny]

A Canadian Recruit did NOT shot the recent casualty, as there are NO recruits over there, just trained soldiers. Accidents happen, that's the nature of our business. It is a dangerous business....

I was only wondering. I did say I had not seen the adds.

But from what I have been reading, it seems our recruits need more training

As for this statement,,,

trained soldiers. Accidents happen, that's the nature of our business. It is a dangerous business....

The Canadian military considers the accidental discharge of a weapon an inexcusable error for infantrymen.

Our most recent casualty, resting in his tent, was shot and killed on the base where these trainees are not even supposed to have loaded weapons.

Another killed .Charge

Manslaughter

Killed by a fellow Canadian on a secure base.

6 Canadians killed by American soldiers

Seems I would think twice before enlisting

BYW, how many of you came to Whitehorse to support Canadian athletes?

[Wilber]

Seems I would think twice before enlisting

One would hope so.

[jenny]

.

... from a person in the advertising business...

with a 13 year old son in air cadets who runs to the TV every time he sees it come on...

.

[AndrewL]

They are damn good ads.

... from a person in the advertising business...

with a 13 year old son in air cadets who runs to the TV every time he sees it come on...

If he decides to join the Canadian Forces I will be 100% behind him and 100% proud....

Our soldiers do the dirty work while folks sit on their computers and judge them. Shame on you folks.

No personal offense intended. But i think the better the ad, the worse it is. If an ad is judged by how effective it is at altering and shaping a person, the more i am reminded how easy it is for a small group of people to influence the behavior of many. I resent that on a very critical level.

Andrew

[AndrewL]

Our soldiers do the dirty work while folks sit on their computers and judge them. Shame on you folks.

There is no shame in discussing the army, both good and bad. They are a public institution as open to real criticism as any other public institution. It is absolutely necessay for the public to always scrutinize the army, especially in (but not limited to) situations where the army is involved in colonialism and occupation.

Andrew

[Drea]

No personal offense intended. But i think the better the ad, the worse it is. If an ad is judged by how effective it is at altering and shaping a person, the more i am reminded how easy it is for a small group of people to influence the behavior of many. I resent that on a very critical level.

True enough Andrew.

The goal of the ad is to garner interest in joining the forces. The ad does that. We are discussing it now which means it is a successful ad.

A kid walking down the mall, sees the recruiters booth and, because he's seen the ad, is more likely to stop than a kid who had never seen the ad.

[AndrewL]

Turns out it was a Canadian recruit who shot and killed Canada's most recent CASUALTY in Afghanistan.

I bet the TV adds dont mention Canadian soldiers shooting and killing fellow Canadians.

But then again, I havnt seen the comercials

No, the ads don't mention that. Neither do hockey night in Canada ads mention Todd Bertuzzi's sucker punch, nor do Microsoft ads mention system crashes, nor do Toyota Prius ads mention the 6 month wait, nor do NDP ads mention the absolute vaccuum of practicality in the party, nor do KFC ads mention transfats.

They are ads. Maybe approaching them from that understanding would keep this discussion on a useful plane.

Asking an adult to understand the context of advertising is valid. My major concern is children, specifically my own. Children are very influenced by advertising at a very young age, and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to shelter them from ads. Children cannot approach ads from a more mature context, as you and i can.

Andrew

[geoffrey]

Asking an adult to understand the context of advertising is valid. My major concern is children, specifically my own. Children are very influenced by advertising at a very young age, and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to shelter them from ads. Children cannot approach ads from a more mature context, as you and i can.

Andrew

Children also can't join the Army.

[Drea]

Turn off the TV.

Or help them to understand. Children will more than likely adopt a parent's view regrading the military, etc. (Even if you don't think so when they are teens .

Our Canadian military (or the ad) is not all about fighting unjust wars in countries far away. As in the ad, the forces are also responsible for crisis here at home. Helping people in war torn countries (like Afghanistan -- not Iraq) rebuild, etc.

It's not about killing. It's about giving of yourself.

[AndrewL]

No personal offense intended. But i think the better the ad, the worse it is. If an ad is judged by how effective it is at altering and shaping a person, the more i am reminded how easy it is for a small group of people to influence the behavior of many. I resent that on a very critical level.

True enough Andrew.

The goal of the ad is to garner interest in joining the forces. The ad does that. We are discussing it now which means it is a successful ad.

Very true.

A kid walking down the mall, sees the recruiters booth and, because he's seen the ad, is more likely to stop than a kid who had never seen the ad.

I am disgusted and depressed by the notion of children being manipulated by advertisers to join an army. Canada should have a disaster relief force, for both domestic and international use. I don't support a standing army whose main purpose is nation building and fulfilling NATO obligations. (i ma not a pacifist BTW, in fact i think Ghandi was an idiot of immense proportions.)

Andrew

[Drea]

But that is not the Canadian Army's main purpose.

The Army has many purposes. Fighting for/with our allies abroad is just one.

As for kid I meant a teen.

[AndrewL]

Asking an adult to understand the context of advertising is valid. My major concern is children, specifically my own. Children are very influenced by advertising at a very young age, and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to shelter them from ads. Children cannot approach ads from a more mature context, as you and i can.

Andrew

Children also can't join the Army.

Not in Canada. But they can join cadets, which is really just a kids army, prepping them as later fodder.

And advertising has a long gestation period. A kid who sees advertising for the army consistently growing up, playing free games like America's Army or whatever, they are well on their way.

Andrew

[geoffrey]

Not in Canada. But they can join cadets, which is really just a kids army, prepping them as later fodder.

If you had any knowledge about how the cadets operate, you'd realise how wrong you are.

And advertising has a long gestation period. A kid who sees advertising for the army consistently growing up, playing free games like America's Army or whatever, they are well on their way.

Andrew

Children only learn from TV and video games when there is an absence of parenting. Definitely not the governments fault there.

[Drea]

Cadets is an organization that teaches youngsters (ages 12 to 18) discipline and self control. It teaches them to use their minds to think before they act.

Cadets honour and respect those who are in or have been in the armed forces. They also learn how to respect adults and authority. Two things which are sadly lacking with the youth today -- much more so than any other recent generation.

IMO, All teens should have to spend two years in the military. From age 15 to 17. To learn that they are not the centre of the universe.

[Figleaf]

Our soldiers do the dirty work while folks sit on their computers and judge them. Shame on you folks.

There is no shame in discussing the army, both good and bad. They are a public institution as open to real criticism as any other public institution. It is absolutely necessay for the public to always scrutinize the army, especially in (but not limited to) situations where the army is involved in colonialism and occupation.

Of course, our army is not, in fact, involved in colonialism or occupation at this time.

[Figleaf]

Asking an adult to understand the context of advertising is valid. My major concern is children, specifically my own. Children are very influenced by advertising at a very young age, and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to shelter them from ads. Children cannot approach ads from a more mature context, as you and i can.

My personal opinion is that children are more robust in this respect that they are given credit for. But since you think differently, obviously your solution is to shield them from media.

I am disgusted and depressed by the notion of children being manipulated by advertisers to join an army. Canada should have a disaster relief force, for both domestic and international use. I don't support a standing army whose main purpose is nation building and fulfilling NATO obligations. (i ma not a pacifist BTW, in fact i think Ghandi was an idiot of immense proportions.)

Since all advertising is in some sense manipulation, are you arguing that the forces ought not to advertise for recruits?

I like the idea of Canada having a uniformed altruistic corps ... perhaps even deployable alongside military forces in appropriate cases.

NATO obligations are the price of the enhanced security the alliance has been perceived to provide. Are you disputing the validity of that perception, or objecting to the price of the quid pro quo?

[Drea]

Blame the politicians, not the army.

And yes, there will be times (I don't like it any more than you do) that we have to "go in" (at least partially) with our ally -- yes, even when we think they are wrong.

Do I think our Canadian troops should be in Iraq? No.

Do I think we should be in Afghanistan? Absolutely.