Allow Foreigners to Provide Cell Phone Services

[August1991]

The CRTC should entirely get out of this business and we should at most auction off or lease out spectrum space to anyone who can pay.

There is the minor questions about security and perhaps 911 service.

This federal policy holds Canada back. It's another example of how federal bureaucrats and federal politicians are incompetent and are not providing the services Canadians expect.

For such an important tool of international communication, it is astounding that so few Canadians use it simply because of bad federal regulations:

Just 56 per cent of Canadians have a mobile phone, compared with an average of about 90 per cent in the rest of the developed world. The discrepancy leaves the country at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to using a basic productivity tool that has become the world's most common communications device.

"Canadian wireless adoption is a national disgrace," concludes the telecommunications consultancy Seaboard Group, in a report entitled Lament for a Wireless Nation.

Twenty-four years after the federal government issued its first licences for cellphone service, only about one of every two Canadians has a device, compared with about three-quarters of the population in the United States, which began going mobile at the same time...

...the country's adoption rate for cellphones puts it on par with Tunisia (average per capita income of $8,600 U.S.) and slightly behind Turkey.

G & M

[Saturn]

The CRTC should entirely get out of this business and we should at most auction off or lease out spectrum space to anyone who can pay.

Thought you were the first to cheer Bernier and Oda's relaxation of pro-competition rules for telecoms, no? You said that less competition was good for the consumer because you already had 5 providers to choose from, no? Now you want more competition? Flip-floper?

[Riverwind]

This federal policy holds Canada back. It's another example of how federal bureaucrats and federal politicians are incompetent and are not providing the services Canadians expect.

You are shooting at the wrong target. The US also lags behind other countries in cell phone adoption and the reason is free local calling. Every other country in the world charges people for every call they make so paying for cell phone air time is not a big deal. In the US and Canada free local calling makes cellphones an expensive choice.

Free local calling is also what enabled to the Internet revolution to happen first in North America. Even today, Canada has one of higher rates of Internet use among industrialized countries.

The current system regulated by the CRTC has also managed to provide Canadians with the cheapest Internet access charges: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/int_int_...nternet-charges

And among the highest per capital use of broadband connections: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/int_bro_...cess-per-capita

So although I agree that cell phone costs are too high and provider plans are way to inflexible. I think your rant against the Canadian regulatory environment was not justified.

[jdobbin]

The CRTC should entirely get out of this business and we should at most auction off or lease out spectrum space to anyone who can pay.

Thought you were the first to cheer Bernier and Oda's relaxation of pro-competition rules for telecoms, no? You said that less competition was good for the consumer because you already had 5 providers to choose from, no? Now you want more competition? Flip-floper?

Think I mentioned this months ago about how the CRTC should not protecting cell phone operators. The rates in Canada are excessive.

It is why I also said that the Canadian TV market should be broken wide open. Shaw and Videotron are so well well protected and still want further breaks from the government. Time to let in the competition.

[geoffrey]

Shaw and Videotron are so well well protected and still want further breaks from the government. Time to let in the competition.

What the hell is Videotron??? Must be a crazy Winnipeg thing.

Sounds like some 1984 type mind control device. "Hey Dobbin, turn off the videotron, big brother is watching you."

[Charles Anthony]

You are shooting at the wrong target. The US also lags behind other countries in cell phone adoption and the reason is free local calling. Every other country in the world charges people for every call they make so paying for cell phone air time is not a big deal. In the US and Canada free local calling makes cellphones an expensive choice.

Maybe I am slow but can you explain more about the inner workings of this market. How does free local calling make cellphones an expensive choice?

What do you propose should be the right target?

[Saturn]

Well, it's the "free" market at work. Take it or leave it. That's your ideology, so don't whine about being gouged.

[Riverwind]

How does free local calling make cellphones an expensive choice?

It should be obvious. Outside of North America people must pay whenever they call someone. In North America people only pay if they call from cell phones. This means fewer people are going to want cellphones (they just make do with land lines) or they don't use their cellphones when a free land line is available. This all adds up to less demand for cell phone services that has nothing to do with the regulatory environment for cell phones.

You could argue that the regulations that require phone companies to offer free local calling are the real problem, however, those same regulations have encouraged people to adopt the Internet much faster than people in other parts of the world. So you cannot really argue that free local calling is a bad thing.

[Saturn]

How does free local calling make cellphones an expensive choice?

It should be obvious. Outside of North America people must pay whenever they call someone. In North America people only pay if they call from cell phones.

Nonsense. In Canada people pay around $40/mth to have a landline in the first place. "Free" local calling isn't free. I don't have a landline, I have only a cell phone. "Free local calling" encourages some to use cellphones.

This means fewer people are going to want cellphones (they just make do with land lines) or they don't use their cellphones when a free land line is available. This all adds up to less demand for cell phone services that has nothing to do with the regulatory environment for cell phones.

It goes both ways. In addition, cellphone costs are significantly higher in Canada than in most other developed nations. Which adds up to less demand for cellphones. This has a lot to do with the regulatory environment for cellphones.

[geoffrey]

Deleted. Riverwind already explained.

Edited March 6, 2007 by geoffrey

[blueblood]

Yah I think cell phone service is ridiculous too. Out in the country it doesn't work half of the time. Long distance on those friggin things is a killer too. I think they are expensive not because of landlines but because of the companies taking advantage of irresponsible phone use. The people who have cell phones are the people who can afford to pay the bills. As long as people are blindly paying the bills, why shouldn't the companies charge more. Some people don't quit talking on the damn things. I think demand is well enough for the phone companies to be charging those rates. Good grief when I see commercials of sending a text message to some number and receiving a joke in return and it costing a dollar, I'm thinking wow someone is actually partaking in that exercise in idiocy. I think the first phone company that charges rates similar to landlines is going to walk away with a nice chunk of market share.

[geoffrey]

Good grief when I see commercials of sending a text message to some number and receiving a joke in return and it costing a dollar, I'm thinking wow someone is actually partaking in that exercise in idiocy. I think the first phone company that charges rates similar to landlines is going to walk away with a nice chunk of market share.

I agree. I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet.

Those text JOKE to 5050501015 commercials are a laugh hey. I like how they all have the 'check with your parents' disclaimer at the bottom. $1.00 per joke? Why?!?!

I've seen a commerical for a text messaging dating service as well. Such funny stuff.

[White Doors]

Why not allow foreigners to compete on landlines as well??

Why do we have the CRTC period?

[na85]

For those of us who aren't familiar, (read: me ) can someone please give a brief rundown of the CRTC's role in wireless?

I thought their mandate only extended to television and radio.

[jdobbin]

What the hell is Videotron??? Must be a crazy Winnipeg thing.

Sounds like some 1984 type mind control device. "Hey Dobbin, turn off the videotron, big brother is watching you."

Videotron is part of one of the largest telecommunication companies in Canada.

They own the Calgary Sun.

Your probably know them by their parent company Quebecor, a well protected company in wireless, cable and newspapers.

http://www.videotron.com/services/Index.do?to=index

Like Shaw, they decided that the Canadian Television Fund was too onerous on them.

[Saturn]

Yah I think cell phone service is ridiculous too. Out in the country it doesn't work half of the time.

And not only in the country. Another reason why Canadians don't use cellphones as much as others.

[blueblood]

Yah I think cell phone service is ridiculous too. Out in the country it doesn't work half of the time.

And not only in the country. Another reason why Canadians don't use cellphones as much as others.

That's a good point, I mean out in the country it's understandable, there needs to be X amount of people to pop up a tower, Man. is generally good except in my area where it's sketchy, but there isn't enough demand to justify popping up another tower. As far as cities go, there should be no excuse why cellphones shouldn't be working all the time, maybe they should make them work better instead of being able to take pictures and play music.

[guyser]

I may be mistaken but we are missing something on that report. As I would like the CRTC to relax rules, I have seen their good in the past.

So we lag behind other countries for cell phone penetration. And the ones that want to make a buck off it are the ones telling us that, all the while looking at the CRTC and damning them.

What country are we in?

And we have how many people?

And we have how many sq K ?

Of 230 countries listed on a "population density" google, we rank 219. The only substantial countries with less

people per sq K are Australia Iceland and Greenland. I bet we are a bit more hillier and more mountains than Australia.The US is at #172 and 31 per sq K.

Canada is @ #219 = 3.2 per sq K

Now does that make any sense?

[blueblood]

I may be mistaken but we are missing something on that report. As I would like the CRTC to relax rules, I have seen their good in the past.

So we lag behind other countries for cell phone penetration. And the ones that want to make a buck off it are the ones telling us that, all the while looking at the CRTC and damning them.

What country are we in?

And we have how many people?

And we have how many sq K ?

Of 230 countries listed on a "population density" google, we rank 219. The only substantial countries with less

people per sq K are Australia Iceland and Greenland. I bet we are a bit more hillier and more mountains than Australia.The US is at #172 and 31 per sq K.

Canada is @ #219 = 3.2 per sq K

Now does that make any sense?

What good has the CRTC done?

Australia I think has a very big desert in the middle of it, like we have our tundra.

[guyser]

What good has the CRTC done?

Can con rules promoted CDN musicians. Other rules allowed some radio stations to be big players in the industry, CHUM being the obvious one , and the station in Windsor that for years was the one of the most influential stations anywhere, and that is saying something being next door to Detroit.If you live in Sask, specifically Northern Sask, thank the CRTC for your cheap phone rates.

As for now, not much.

[August1991]

Of 230 countries listed on a "population density" google, we rank 219. The only substantial countries with less

people per sq K are Australia Iceland and Greenland. I bet we are a bit more hillier and more mountains than Australia.The US is at #172 and 31 per sq K.

Canada is @ #219 = 3.2 per sq K

But 90% of Canadians live within 100 kms of the US border.

High prices and poor cell phone service in Canada have nothing to do with population density.

[geoffrey]

But 90% of Canadians live within 100 kms of the US border.

You know what, I don't think enough Canadians have questioned that satistic. No less than 80% of Albertans live further then 100km from the US border.

Perhaps we're the least American of all the provinces?

[Riverwind]

High prices and poor cell phone service in Canada have nothing to do with population density.

You are making an assertion without evidence. Even the largest Canadian cities are tiny compared to cities in Europe, Asia or even the US. The Canadian market is small which means there are fewer potential customers that can be used to amortize the cost of the equipment.

[August1991]

You are making an assertion without evidence.

True, and I'll admit as other posters have to being largely ignorant of the cell phone business and specifically how the CRTC is involved.

One reason I started the thread is that I reckon there is a lack of competition and I was curious to see where the discussion would lead.

Even the largest Canadian cities are tiny compared to cities in Europe, Asia or even the US. The Canadian market is small which means there are fewer potential customers that can be used to amortize the cost of the equipment.

There are fixed costs with cell phones but congestion problems too. More users require more infrastructure.

In any case, there is no reason based on population density that users in southern central Canada should pay more for worse service than users in other areas of the world.

I'll link now to my standard image of Canada.

[guyser]

In any case, there is no reason based on population density that users in southern central Canada should pay more for worse service than users in other areas of the world.

August even considering the fact that most of these cities in southern central Canada are quite far apart in comparison to the northeast US?