NDP proposes Federal Minimum Wage - $10.00

[scribblet]

Greg Sorbara ((Ont. Liberal) says that jobs are at risk with a $10 an hour minimum wage. It just stands to reason that if the cost of labour is raised, business will demand less of it. Small business won't be able to hire or keep workers. Maybe a better solution would be to lower the taxes for lower income earners.

Raising the Minimum wage won't decrease poverty, the major cause of poverty is a lack of education and skills. The higher the minimum wage, the higher the high school drop out rate.

There was a study done by Human resources and Social Development Canada which pointed out an increase will only result in more poverty. Have to find the link.

[madmax]

The only job category that is not affected are upper level management - largely because they are in charge of setting their own salaries (but that is another topic). There is no justification for increasing the minimum wage in the current economic environment.

You have argued your points well.

[madmax]

Greg Sorbara ((Ont. Liberal) says that jobs are at risk with a $10 an hour minimum wage.

I have so much respect for him and the Ontario Liberal Party. Send him a message. He owes us $40,000 for his raise, that's not market driven, but legislated.

This thread is about a Federal Minimum Wage. Please don't drag pocket lining Ontario MPs into this.

It just stands to reason that if the cost of labour is raised, business will demand less of it. Small business won't be able to hire or keep workers.

That's an old debate isn't it? Been around this block thousands of times over 9 decades.

Maybe a better solution would be to lower the taxes for lower income earners.

There are other solutions, that are bargained or controlled through a revised tax structure.

No Province or Federal Government has chosen to wade into those waters and one Province should look into these 3rd ways as many economists converge on these solutions.

Raising the Minimum wage won't decrease poverty, the major cause of poverty is a lack of education and skills.

You make alot of assumptions here. I have known many a well educated person whom hit a transition period where the minimum wage or even Welfare was required. This is indeed poverty and working poor. That said, being educated gives a person a far better chance of exiting the lower working class and becoming a successful contributing member of the workforce and society.

[Catchme]

The question is how much profit isn't it?

you think Wal Mart will pull out?

Or Maconalds?

Or how about Tim Horton's?

greed 1 of the seven deadly sins.

[Riverwind]

you think Wal Mart will pull out?

No. They will just charge more for their goods. That feeds inflation and reduces the standard of living for everyone - including the people who are supposed to be helped.

[madmax]

you think Wal Mart will pull out?

No. They will just charge more for their goods.

How much lower are the prices of an Alberta Walmart vs one in BC?

[Riverwind]

How much lower are the prices of an Alberta Walmart vs one in BC?

Excellent question. Do you know of any source that answers the question other than anecdotes?

[geoffrey]

How much lower are the prices of an Alberta Walmart vs one in BC?

7%

Good luck hiring anyone for less than $10 in Alberta or even in BC to some extent. Being said, in the Maritimes that's a different story.

This minimum wage (The Federal one) only applies to a relatively small chunk of people, none of which make minimum wage anyway.

Interesting point, the socialist paradise of the world Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage.

[Wilber]

There was a feature on the news here a couple of days ago. A security company in Kelowna that makes such things as body armour is moving much of its manufacturing to Ontario. The reason is, they can't get enough employees in spite of getting into bidding wars for people. It's ironic that people are losing their jobs because of a labour shortage. It's not like they will stay unemployed however. That's the real answer to a minimum wage, full employment.

[madmax]

How much lower are the prices of an Alberta Walmart vs one in BC?

Excellent question. Do you know of any source that answers the question other than anecdotes?

No unfortuneately I don't. Often when I pop a question like that someone here seems to find the info or a link, etc. But right now, I am open for an anecdote as well.

Later.

[madmax]

Interesting point, the socialist paradise of the world Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage.

Nice to have went through this before in the other thread . There are other ways to deal with wages, and another Province should try the Euro way such as Sask or if in Alberta or Ontario try an earned income tax credit. Just to put the focus more on Market and Bartering vs Fixed Legislation.

[madmax]

There was a feature on the news here a couple of days ago. A security company in Kelowna that makes such things as body armour is moving much of its manufacturing to Ontario. The reason is, they can't get enough employees in spite of getting into bidding wars for people. It's ironic that people are losing their jobs because of a labour shortage. It's not like they will stay unemployed however. That's the real answer to a minimum wage, full employment.

Here here, pounds on tables and cheers loudly.

The story you provide is Ironic.

[sideshow]

I would be curious to know if there are any workers in the federal jurisdiction that make less than 10 per hour. As its a relatively small portion of the workforce (transportation, banking, etc.) and since the clc requires them to be paid the provincial minimums, and since unemployment is not out of control, etc. are there many people even WILLING to work for less than 10? I mean 7-11 is paying 8 bucks per hour in manitoba where the minimum wage is like 7. And transportation companies, etc. tend to pay a bit higher than that anyways, so if I'm wrong well whatever, but otherwise, maybe let the NDP have this feel good exercise and if it affects a few hundred or a few thousand people across the country or whatever, it will simply be a "blip" on the economic radar anyways.

Anyone know of any specific places that are federal that pay less than 10 in the country? I would love to know.

[madmax]

Anyone know of any specific places that are federal that pay less than 10 in the country? I would love to know.

No one has commented on this, and I haven't come across any specific federal place that pays less than $10. It would appear to be a pretty safe proposal to set the minimum at $10.

[ClearWest]

Anyone know of any specific places that are federal that pay less than 10 in the country? I would love to know.

No one has commented on this, and I haven't come across any specific federal place that pays less than $10. It would appear to be a pretty safe proposal to set the minimum at $10.

Or it would be entirely pointless.

If that's really the case then I suppose they're just compulsive regulators.

[sideshow]

Anyone know of any specific places that are federal that pay less than 10 in the country? I would love to know.

No one has commented on this, and I haven't come across any specific federal place that pays less than $10. It would appear to be a pretty safe proposal to set the minimum at $10.

Or it would be entirely pointless.

If that's really the case then I suppose they're just compulsive regulators.

I couldn't agree more. What is funny is that since a 10 dollar an hour minimum is really such a non issue, why does anyone care (one way or the other)? Perhaps sleeping dogs should be left to lie.

And some people think we don't think that there should be any minimum wages period........

[blueblood]

Anyone know of any specific places that are federal that pay less than 10 in the country? I would love to know.

No one has commented on this, and I haven't come across any specific federal place that pays less than $10. It would appear to be a pretty safe proposal to set the minimum at $10.

Or it would be entirely pointless.

If that's really the case then I suppose they're just compulsive regulators.

I couldn't agree more. What is funny is that since a 10 dollar an hour minimum is really such a non issue, why does anyone care (one way or the other)? Perhaps sleeping dogs should be left to lie.

And some people think we don't think that there should be any minimum wages period........

The issue is 10 bucks an hour, whats next 20, 25? Minimum wage can be a large expense for some companies. If it costs too much to do business in a country why bother doing business there in the first place? It hurts small business too, if they can't afford to pay these wages people are proposing then they either fold or pass on the costs to the consumer. Alberta doesn't have 10 dollar an hour min. wage, yet burger flippers can make 15 bucks an hour. More job opportunities mean that they have to compete to get workers, which results in higher wages as a result.

[Saturn]

Anyone know of any specific places that are federal that pay less than 10 in the country? I would love to know.

The feds pay $9.17-$9.27 to high-school students. Whether the feds hire any high-school students is another question entirely.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/Pubs_pol/hrpubs/c...p#_Toc156276710

It's a feel-good exercise on behalf of the NDP that won't affect anyone (aside from a handful of high-school students if the feds hire any such students).

[Saturn]

The issue is 10 bucks an hour, whats next 20, 25? Minimum wage can be a large expense for some companies. If it costs too much to do business in a country why bother doing business there in the first place? It hurts small business too, if they can't afford to pay these wages people are proposing then they either fold or pass on the costs to the consumer. Alberta doesn't have 10 dollar an hour min. wage, yet burger flippers can make 15 bucks an hour. More job opportunities mean that they have to compete to get workers, which results in higher wages as a result.

Get off your ideological cloud in the sky. Setting the federal minimum wage to $10 won't change anything.

[madmax]

Get off your ideological cloud in the sky. Setting the federal minimum wage to $10 won't change anything.

No it won't.

[Argus]

del

[Argus]

More income spent in communities which benefits all. From housing, social safety net improvement, the purchasing of products and increasing consumer speading in all sectors.

Uhm, increasing the min wage does not produce more money. It does not CREATE money. You increase min wage you increase the cost of labour overall. If no-skill people earn $10hr then those with slightly higher skills have to get bumped up too. Those now earning $10hr for something will need to get $12-13, and so on, and so on up the ladder. That's the way economies work. So all that results is a higher cost labour force.

But the way poverty is being calculated is as a comparison to higher wage earners. So increasing the min wage, which then produces a domino affect of higher wages for others does not in any way affect the "poverty rate" as it is being used by proponents of min wage increases.

This is absolutely BASIC, bedrock economics which ought to have been taught in high school. BTW, weren't you going to tell us all about your education?

[Keepitsimple]

It sounds so caring - let's raise the minimum wage and help those attain some dignity. As with any broad policy, political knuckleheads like Jack Layton and The Star should first ask the question.....who would really be helped by raising the minimum wage to $10? The answer can be found in the following statistics, excerpted from an article by Christina Bilizzard:

Figures from StatsCan make some interesting points. According to 2005 data, 50% of minimum wage earners are aged 15-19 and 17% are 20-24. Not surprisingly, 65% of minimum wage earners live with their parents. Only 6.5% are their family's major income earner.

So.....is that really what we want to do - give all the kids a raise? I don't think so.

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/...694567-sun.html

[Saturn]

It sounds so caring - let's raise the minimum wage and help those attain some dignity. As with any broad policy, political knuckleheads like Jack Layton and The Star should first ask the question.....who would really be helped by raising the minimum wage to $10? The answer can be found in the following statistics, excerpted from an article by Christina Bilizzard:

Figures from StatsCan make some interesting points. According to 2005 data, 50% of minimum wage earners are aged 15-19 and 17% are 20-24. Not surprisingly, 65% of minimum wage earners live with their parents. Only 6.5% are their family's major income earner.

So.....is that really what we want to do - give all the kids a raise? I don't think so.

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/...694567-sun.html

Do you have a link for these StatsCan numbers?

[madmax]

Increasing the minimum wage is always an upsell. Most people often disagree, which is the case with this poll. However, the fact that it is this close on this forum is very surprising.

People will always have a reason to criticise the minimum wage. It has been around a long time.