Argus Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 Wow, I don't think I'd accuse August of trolling. That was an interesting point of view, not ban worthy, i've seen worse trolling on here. Would you be that fiesty if it was the tories in the liberal's shoes? People are allowed to say what they want and sometimes it can be right offensive. Harper said something right offensive, so what. I'd be upset if the Liberals accused someone of wifebeating with no evidence to support it. And I don't mean a photograph. The Globe used innuendos and smear in the same way August has. He now uses the Globe article to state it is a historic fact. To top it off he keeps repeating the dubious claim that it earned Trudeau votes. Yellow journalism. Yellow poster. You're just whining because Trudeau was your hero. The Globe seems to be your favourite newspaper when you agree with it. Certainly you quote them enough. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 Harper brought up the conflict of interest that the MP has... his father-in-law will avoid questioning on the Air India matter if the terrorism provisions aren't renewed. I don't see what that has to do with the Conservatives stacking the judicial committees. Since that's not happening then I don't see why you're complaining. Do you really think the Liberals are not supporting the legislation just because ONE of their MPs father in law? If it's such an issue, he should abstain from the vote....but that doesn't change the fact that this was a drive-by smear by Harper. Personally, no. I think the Liberals are not supporting the legislation because key polls taken among ethnics and certain Liberal ridings have told them they can make political gain by opposing it. The Liberals don't do anything out of principal. When you see them claiming to be taking a stand out of principal look around for brown paper bags full of money. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Catchme Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 I seem to recall that after Paul Martin was the keynote speaker at a fund raiser for the Tamil Tigers, and he was questioned on it, he called his opponents racists. I'd call that a smear tactic. link? cite it? proof? More drive by smears without citing proof, really trying to work on making it appear as if the only good people in Ottawa are the CPC, something which could not be further from the truth. As evidenced today yet again by Harper. Quote When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die. ~Jean-Paul Sartre
Argus Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 This obvious sidestep and smear seems to be the standard for a Tory response. But this time Harper over stepped his bounds. I have watched many Q&A periods since the Tories took power, and not once have I seen them answer a question. Well, I'm gonna say that either you're lying for saying you're lying or you're just too wildly biased to understand what was being said. They have side stepped every question pointing back at the Liberals from a decade ago blaming them for Canada’s problems. Which seems pretty fair, given that no program falls apart over night. If something isn't working, like health care, or the military or whatever, it didn't just collapse since the tories took power. It's due to many years of neglect by the Liberals. The stance that the Liberals have taken on the anti-terrorism laws is for civil liberties Oh please. The Liberals brought in this legislation last year. The stance they're taking is for political gain among certain ethnic groups and among small "l" liberal voters. Liberals do nothing except for political gain. The party long ago abandoned any ideas for helping anyone but themselves. It's a pity there are so many poorly educated Canadians who can't see that. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 I seem to recall that after Paul Martin was the keynote speaker at a fund raiser for the Tamil Tigers, and he was questioned on it, he called his opponents racists. I'd call that a smear tactic. link? cite it? proof? More drive by smears without citing proof, really trying to work on making it appear as if the only good people in Ottawa are the CPC, something which could not be further from the truth. As evidenced today yet again by Harper. I am not responsible for your often astounding lack of basic political knowledge. Look it up if you don't believe me. Paul Martin was warned off by External Affairs, by CSIS and by the CIA. All told him it was a terrorist fund raiser. He went anyway. Seeing him in the house afterwards, when questioned, was a revelation. He was arrogant, condescending, smug, and contemptuous of those who questioned him. I can still see the image of him and Chretien standing side by side, the absolute image of comfortably smug. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jdobbin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Posted February 22, 2007 You're just whining because Trudeau was your hero. The Globe seems to be your favourite newspaper when you agree with it. Certainly you quote them enough. And you're just being as ass for thinking I have anything but disgust for yellow journalism wherever it comes from. Quote
jdobbin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Posted February 22, 2007 Again, rational debate is what we all seek. Personally, I always find August's opinions to be refreshingly insightful, even if I don't necessarily agree with them. Let's stick to the topic. You find his accusation of wifebeating refreshing? There is no rational debate when people try to link others to terrorism, child pornography or wifebeating. Quote
jdobbin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Posted February 22, 2007 YOU reported August for --- trolling?Why? Because he told the truth about Margaret Trudeau and the fact that Pierre used to slap the snot out of her periodically? And, that is the truth. Obviously you know nothing about 'Maggie' Sinclair Trudeau or about the relationship between she and Trudeau. Maybe it is you who should be "banned permanently from this forum" ..... for insulting August and for your ignorance of the facts about Maggie and her 'old man' Trudeau. Please show me where Margaret Trudeau ever mentioned violence against her. Please show me any evidence other than a photograph where people make up their own stories. Please tell me how that earned Trudeau votes. You obviously seem to know so the information has to be out there. If you don't have it, then you are simply smearing someone. Quote
margrace Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 Angus sure is into information and party control here. I wonder who that person is? I hope he or she allways stays on the right side of Harper. Remember Belinda and Garth, to cross this man in any way spell trouble for party members. Didn' Hitler operate that way. Quote
jdobbin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Posted February 22, 2007 I seem to recall that after Paul Martin was the keynote speaker at a fund raiser for the Tamil Tigers, and he was questioned on it, he called his opponents racists. I'd call that a smear tactic. Please show me where he called his opponents racists. It wasn't the first time and it won't be the last time that federal ministers have been at events or fundraisers that are sometimes linked to unsavory elements. However, linking the minister as supportive of terrorism is a smear tactic. Quote
Charles Anthony Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 linking the minister as supportive of terrorism isDo you have a link for that interpretation?The prime minister did not get a word in at all. Why? because of how the Liberals shouted him down in the House of Commons. Quote We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
gc1765 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 Unless the prime minister was named Martin or Chretien, of course. Then your expectations are abandoned in favour of unbridled and enthusiastic support for whatever they do. Where did you get the idea that I have "unbridled and enthusiastic support" for Martin or Chretien? Back up your accusations or don't make them in the first place. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gc1765 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 The Liberals don't do anything out of principal. When you see them claiming to be taking a stand out of principal look around for brown paper bags full of money. That's fine, but I hope you don't actually believe the Conservatives are any different. I suppose the environment became such a big priority for the Conservatives based on.....principles??? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Saturn Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStoriesIt is getting pretty brutal. This type of behaviour eventually whips around and turns on the people who use it. Steve is losing it. Hopefully, he'll crack under pressure and the Asian invasion, gays are evil and women are scum will come out before the next election. Quote
Saturn Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 Personally, no. I think the Liberals are not supporting the legislation because key polls taken among ethnics and certain Liberal ridings have told them they can make political gain by opposing it. The Liberals "favour" terrorists to gain votes from the ethnic minorities in Liberal ridings and Martin supported pedophilia to gain the votes of pedophiles in certain Liberal ridings. Conservatives ought to have their heads checked. Quote
adam Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 The stance they're taking is for political gain among certain ethnic groups and among small "l" liberal voters. Liberals do nothing except for political gain. The party long ago abandoned any ideas for helping anyone but themselves. Isn't that the idea of politics? To represent your ridings and set policies that reflects their beliefs? Seems to me that’s the whole idea of democracy. Quote
na85 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 You find his accusation of wifebeating refreshing?There is no rational debate when people try to link others to terrorism, child pornography or wifebeating. I find it more refreshing than your flaming. There's no need to get so emotional over these things, no need to go on the offensive. People on this forum have a tendency to get very worked-up over things. I notice that August has been conspicuously absent from this thread, possibly because it's mostly degenerated into rants and sarcastic retorts. Quote
Argus Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 Angus sure is into information and party control here. I wonder who that person is? I hope he or she allways stays on the right side of Harper. Remember Belinda and Garth, to cross this man in any way spell trouble for party members. Didn' Hitler operate that way. Well... Chretien certainly did. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 I seem to recall that after Paul Martin was the keynote speaker at a fund raiser for the Tamil Tigers, and he was questioned on it, he called his opponents racists. I'd call that a smear tactic. Please show me where he called his opponents racists. It wasn't the first time and it won't be the last time that federal ministers have been at events or fundraisers that are sometimes linked to unsavory elements. However, linking the minister as supportive of terrorism is a smear tactic. Bullshit. Martin was informed by multiple sources beforehand that the group was nothing more than a front for the Tamil Tigers, and that their fund raiser wasn't going to blankets but guns. Martin simply did not care. He has never cared about terrorism. He and Chretien underfunded the RCMP, underfunded CSIS, underfunded the military and the coast guard, disbanded the ports police, and refused to give Customs and Border posts the tools they needed to do their jobs. Martin cared about nothing but the votes he could get from segments of the Sri Lankan community, which is again why he and Chretien refused to add the Tamil Tigers to our list of terrorist groups. As for the direct quote, without searching I can't find better than this below. This was Martin's response in the House as to why he attended this fund raiser despite advice from CSIS, Foreign Affairs and the US. Picture him standing there in all his pompous, self righteous majesty. "Mr. Speaker, what I am concerned about is the sense of values that is being demonstrated by the official opposition. Let us make it very clear, and I do not believe I am only speaking for the government but I am speaking for all Canadians, that there are not two kinds of citizenship in this country. When people land upon our shores they are entitled to celebrate their heritage and they are equal Canadians with all of us." Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 The Liberals don't do anything out of principal. When you see them claiming to be taking a stand out of principal look around for brown paper bags full of money. That's fine, but I hope you don't actually believe the Conservatives are any different. I suppose the environment became such a big priority for the Conservatives based on.....principles??? No, that's pure politics. But the Conservatives do have principals, and a huge chunk of their MPs got into politics to improve things, not to enrich themselves. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
na85 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 No, that's pure politics. But the Conservatives do have principals, and a huge chunk of their MPs got into politics to improve things, not to enrich themselves. So wait... No single Liberal MP has a shred of morals, but a large number of Conservative MPs are purely involved for altruistic reasons? What a load of bull. You know as well as anyone else that both parties have their good Samaritans along with their crooked members. Quote
newbie Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 All I have to say is welcome to the new tone of the "new" government. Quote
jdobbin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Posted February 22, 2007 I find it more refreshing than your flaming. There's no need to get so emotional over these things, no need to go on the offensive. People on this forum have a tendency to get very worked-up over things. I notice that August has been conspicuously absent from this thread, possibly because it's mostly degenerated into rants and sarcastic retorts. Possibly he is absent because this is the type of smear and poor reporting in the media that he has decried in other threads. Here, he takes it as gospel and a historic truth. Quote
jdobbin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Posted February 22, 2007 Martin was informed by multiple sources beforehand that the group was nothing more than a front for the Tamil Tigers, and that their fund raiser wasn't going to blankets but guns. Martin simply did not care. He has never cared about terrorism. He and Chretien underfunded the RCMP, underfunded CSIS, underfunded the military and the coast guard, disbanded the ports police, and refused to give Customs and Border posts the tools they needed to do their jobs. Martin cared about nothing but the votes he could get from segments of the Sri Lankan community, which is again why he and Chretien refused to add the Tamil Tigers to our list of terrorist groups.As for the direct quote, without searching I can't find better than this below. This was Martin's response in the House as to why he attended this fund raiser despite advice from CSIS, Foreign Affairs and the US. Picture him standing there in all his pompous, self righteous majesty. "Mr. Speaker, what I am concerned about is the sense of values that is being demonstrated by the official opposition. Let us make it very clear, and I do not believe I am only speaking for the government but I am speaking for all Canadians, that there are not two kinds of citizenship in this country. When people land upon our shores they are entitled to celebrate their heritage and they are equal Canadians with all of us." There were Conservatives who met with the same group. In fact, they recruited a member of the organization to run as candidate. Quote
geoffrey Posted February 22, 2007 Report Posted February 22, 2007 And banned all funding of the group upon election. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
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