Suzuki, the Left Wing and Eco-Nazis

[stevoh]

If the right wing corporations and oil companies would put as much money into solving carbon emissions as they do in denying it we would have had a solution already.

One of the great things about capitalism and democracy is how it allows consumers to push for change where politicians and policy makers stagnate.

The toyota hybrid vehicle family has been selling well. Instead of wallowing in the "we can't change it will cost too much" excuse of some major corporations, they have been giving the public the opportunity to make a real change through purchase choice.

The toyota hybrids are a "mid step" between gasoline engines and fuel cells. In fact, toyota has already been contacted by fuel cell manufacturers to include adapters that would allow fuel cells to work in their vehicles.

Some companies whine about change, claim it will cost to much, and fight it on the political and psuedo scientific front. Other companies do what capitalism demands, change with the times and offer consumer choice. If a big oil company could figure this out, research alternative technologies, look at more eco-friendly processing processes, it could be worth money, through consumer choice.

Instead, they choose to whine and deny. Realize instead that this is a growing opportunity that they are beginning to miss out on.

[stignasty]

To gain an understanding of the level of scientific consensus on climate change, a recent study examined every article on climate change published in peer-reviewed scientific journals over a 10-year period. Of the 928 articles on climate change the authors found, not one of them disagreed with the consensus position that climate change is happening or is human-induced.

That statement makes total sense to me. What about it bothers you?

It does make total sense. I was being sarcastic. I posted it in response to the characterization of Dr. Suzuki as an "Eco-Nazi," which doesn't make any sense.

[geoffrey]

And your point is???

As wise ol' Ghandi once said, you must become the change you seek. Turn in your car, turn off your furnance and enjoy the beauty of lowering your emissions.

At the same time, note that reducing GHG does not reduce the toxic smog that causes asthma, the Clean Air Act addressed toxins in the air that actually kill people, the Kyoto Accord does not. Something to ponder.

[gc1765]

One of the great things about capitalism and democracy is how it allows consumers to push for change where politicians and policy makers stagnate.

The toyota hybrid vehicle family has been selling well. Instead of wallowing in the "we can't change it will cost too much" excuse of some major corporations, they have been giving the public the opportunity to make a real change through purchase choice.

The toyota hybrids are a "mid step" between gasoline engines and fuel cells. In fact, toyota has already been contacted by fuel cell manufacturers to include adapters that would allow fuel cells to work in their vehicles.

Some companies whine about change, claim it will cost to much, and fight it on the political and psuedo scientific front. Other companies do what capitalism demands, change with the times and offer consumer choice. If a big oil company could figure this out, research alternative technologies, look at more eco-friendly processing processes, it could be worth money, through consumer choice.

Instead, they choose to whine and deny. Realize instead that this is a growing opportunity that they are beginning to miss out on.

That's great, but we need to get everyone on board. Those who pollute, whether it be CO2 or otherwise, should have to pay. Or, to put it another way, reward those who don't pollute. Same thing.

Capitalism doesn't work when it comes to the environment, IMO.

[Posit]

Capitalism isn't the problem, corporatism is. You cannot get companies to effect change when they are neither worried about the products they sell the resources they consume or the people they serve. The bottom line isn't about minor investors in companies because they are controlled by people whose interest is to greedily make money, even if it means destroying the company and sucking up minor investors' life savings. And as long as the controlling interests can manipulate companies there will be no voluntary commitment to any GH gases emissions.

For industry and commerce we MUST have tough legislation without any loop holes. And at the same time we must close the borders so that those controlling shareholders cannot take our money out of the country to another less emission-controlled country.

For a Prime Minister and a Government to do nothing is not an option. Canada signed the international Kyoto agreement and if we expect others - like the US and the Free Trade Agreement - to live up to their agreements then we can do no less than living up fully to ours. If Stephen Harper can't, or won't do the job he is legally obligated to do then he should call an election and let us put in someone who can. I hear that the Liberals are courting Elizabeth May of the Green Party. I believe that they should pursue a coalition with the Greens and the NDP to put a controlling government in place to implement the tough legislation required to send us on our way to an end to excessive carbon emissions. On the other hand, I'm sure Harper could do the same thing if he had the gonads to do what was right, instead of what suits his rich oil-field friends in Alberta.

[Spike22]

Suzuki is excellent. I wish we could adopt all the Kyoto accord requirements and a whole lot more but at what price? No one can definitivly state what impact that would have on ouir economy. It would be great breathing in crisp air however I don't want to do it while living in a tent when my house is repo'd because I no longer have a job...

[Canuck E Stan]

Suzuki is excellent. I wish we could adopt all the Kyoto accord requirements and a whole lot more but at what price? No one can definitivly state what impact that would have on ouir economy. It would be great breathing in crisp air however I don't want to do it while living in a tent when my house is repo'd because I no longer have a job...

$10 Billion to start with, and your grandchildren won't even be breathing crisp air.

[Spike22]

I'll write ya a cheque for the $10 billion dollars. Oops I farted, is that allowed under Kyoto - greenhouse gasses and all?

[Posit]

You wanna start? Try changing all your light bulbs to compact florescent. Or replacing that outdated furnace with a high efficiency one. Or turning back your thermostat a couple of degrees. Or car pool or take the transit. Or turn out the lights behind you. Or shop for energy efficient appliances. Use a hand can opener. Get rid of all your aerosol sprays. Plant a tree. Plant a vegetable garden. Plant flowers.

There are lots of ways to slow greenhouse gas emissions from your own home. It doesn't have to be drastic, or even expensive. You just have to do ~something~ and that something will make it easier on your children.

I've heard the $10 billion propaganda before and it is hogwash. The city of Edmonton went green about 4 years ago and they ended up saving money - lots of money. The initial cost of conversion was more than covered by the energy savings they have reaped in the last 3 or 4 years. And then we have the car companies that whine of the cost...oh the cost...Toyota wasn't doing anything genuine. They are simply playing to the "green" market. However, the best thing the big car companies can do is come up with their own plan and put it the consumer. You know and I know they will buy green if it is available. And if GM, Ford and Chrysler put it out there within the next couple of years, they might just make it big again.

If you really want to make a difference, take off all the packaging on products you buy and tell the retailer to send it back to the manufacturer. If enough of us did that it wouldn't be long before the massive garbage producing packaging would be on the decline. They contribute to global warming and pollution since most of the stuff cannot be recycled or reused...

[Canuck E Stan]

You wanna start? Try changing all your light bulbs to compact florescent. Or replacing that outdated furnace with a high efficiency one. Or turning back your thermostat a couple of degrees. Or car pool or take the transit. Or turn out the lights behind you. Or shop for energy efficient appliances. Use a hand can opener. Get rid of all your aerosol sprays. Plant a tree. Plant a vegetable garden. Plant flowers.

There are lots of ways to slow greenhouse gas emissions from your own home. It doesn't have to be drastic, or even expensive. You just have to do ~something~ and that something will make it easier on your children.

I've heard the $10 billion propaganda before and it is hogwash.

If you really want to make a difference, take off all the packaging on products you buy and tell the retailer to send it back to the manufacturer. If enough of us did that it wouldn't be long before the massive garbage producing packaging would be on the decline. They contribute to global warming and pollution since most of the stuff cannot be recycled or reused...

Your solution will be solving the "crisis" of global warming only in your mind.

You know even less about Kyoto.

Better stop while you're ahead.

[Posit]

That's your problem. You're waiting for the big pill. Unfortunately it only comes in football size and has to be swallowed whole. The point is that it is not about solving global warming. The ideas are about changing it - just one kilowatt at a time. If enough people did just a little it can add up to a whole lot....and the benefit is we all save money in the long run.

In the last couple of years I built a new house. With a little planning and a bit of research I was able to incorporate low tech green technologies. This house uses 1/3 of the energy that the last 20 year old house I owned consumed. On top of it I had less than a three wheel barrows full of waste materials during construction. Simple, cheap and cost benefits.

So you can sit back and claim "we can't do it" "its too much for me", or you can do a little bit. The energy you save and the greenhouse gases that you reduce WILL have a positive effect on your children. And perhaps just your effort will instill others, including your children to carry on with your legacy. That can't be bad, now can it?

[Canuck E Stan]

That's your problem. You're waiting for the big pill. Unfortunately it only comes in football size and has to be swallowed whole. The point is that it is not about solving global warming. The ideas are about changing it - just one kilowatt at a time. If enough people did just a little it can add up to a whole lot....and the benefit is we all save money in the long run.

In the last couple of years I built a new house. With a little planning and a bit of research I was able to incorporate low tech green technologies. This house uses 1/3 of the energy that the last 20 year old house I owned consumed. On top of it I had less than a three wheel barrows full of waste materials during construction. Simple, cheap and cost benefits.

So you can sit back and claim "we can't do it" "its too much for me", or you can do a little bit. The energy you save and the greenhouse gases that you reduce WILL have a positive effect on your children. And perhaps just your effort will instill others, including your children to carry on with your legacy. That can't be bad, now can it?

Unfortunately for those that do their "little" bit ,the David Suzukis of this world say that's not enough.And with pushing the Kyoto agenda it involves buying credits which at last count mean sending $10 billion+ to foreign countries like Russia, and that's only the start.I commend you for your efforts,I have been doing similar things, but this goes way beyond these small steps.

[White Doors]

Unfortunately for those that do their "little" bit ,the David Suzukis of this world say that's not enough.And with pushing the Kyoto agenda it involves buying credits which at last count mean sending $10 billion+ to foreign countries like Russia, and that's only the start.I commend you for your efforts,I have been doing similar things, but this goes way beyond these small steps.

Meanwhile he is gallavanting around the country in one of those huge tour busses that rockstars use. beds and all (even though they stay in hotels every night). it is diesel too. Get's about 8mpg.

awesome!

[Saturn]

Left wing people have always felt that they knew better and were smarter than everyone else - just look on this forum to the condescending attitudes. Think back to the days of high school, sitting in class debating about the pros and cons of government intervention in the domestic economy - in a setting where it's actually still up for debate. The lefties always thought they knew best and argued for socialism and big, expensive government programs to fix all of society's ills.

LOL! Give me a break! Right-wingers are the ones who always think they know best and who are always so opinionated especially on issues that they know nothing about. They are the big grown-ups who know best how to take care of themselves, yet they are the first to cry foul and cry the loudest all the way to Ottawa when their industry is in trouble and government "has" to bail them out. They are so mature and responsible, they can't even raise their kids without thousands of dollars in government handouts. They are so capable that when a more capable immigrant gets a well-paying job they cry foul about discrimination and other bullshit instead of looking at their own shortcomings. They know best but always someone else is responsible for all their problems. Until they start acting like they are actually capable of handling their own matters and stop whining for everything like little kids, nobody will take them seriously.

[jbg]

Next time you hear Canada's resident kook, David Suzuki, ranting away take a closer listen: you can hear his ideas about global social policy and economics leaking into his weakly veiled comments about the temperature of a Greenlandian glacier. It's no accident these subjects are becoming more and more intertwined.

This is just another veiled global attempt to demonize "industry" , "big business" , "america" and "free will" - all irrationally chosen enemies of the hard core left.

This is scary business, no?

Ever notice that many of the so-called enviros talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Back in 1979, John Denver, environmental advocate and singer, had a huge private gasoline supply during that summer's shortages.

cowardice and hypcrisy from David Suzuki, a leading enviro advocate from north of the Border (link, excerpts below):

Eco-icon not so green

By TOM BRODBECK

Political activist David Suzuki -- on a cross-country tour urging Canadians and politicians to drastically reduce greenhouse gas emissions -- may want to look in his own backyard before lecturing Canadians on how they're destroying the Earth.

With all the alternative-energy modes of transportation out there, Suzuki and his entourage are crossing Canada in a sprawling, "rock-star-style" diesel-burning tour bus, emitting more greenhouse gases during his 30-day tour than many of us do in a year.

That's right. Mr. Kyoto isn't so green after all.

"It's diesel," Jason Curan, a media staff member on the Suzuki tour told Sun Media yesterday. "It's a tour bus -- kind of like a rock-star tour bus."

You know, one of those big-ass, diesel-guzzling, carbon-spewing beasts?

The kind that emits tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and supposedly contributes to some future catastrophic climate event.

A polar-bear killer on wheels.

"It's kind of too fancy for our needs," admitted Curan. "But it does the job."

I bet it does.

How are we supposed to take a guy like Suzuki seriously when he drives across Canada in one of the most polluting modes of transportation available?

I don't see a lot of leadership there.

It's no better in the US. Recently, according to this article in the New York Sun (link, excerpts below) his life style is hardly "green". Excerpts from article below:

A research group in Tennessee, where the former vice president lives, claims that Mr. Gore's 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville consumes more electricity in a month than the average American household uses in a year.

The Tennessee Center for Policy Research said Mr. Gore's house in the Belle Meade area of the city last year consumed nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity — more than 20 times the national average.

*snip*

"What Mr. Gore has asked is that every family calculate their carbon footprint and try to reduce it as much as possible," a spokesman said.

"Once they have done so, he then advocates that they purchase offsets, as the Gores do, to bring their footprint down to zero."

Supporters of Mr. Gore said the criticism was politically motivated and that the Tennessee Center for Policy Research, despite claims of being independent and nonpartisan, was "a strongly-leaning Republican organization."

Vice President Gore's home,

in Nashville's exclusive Belle Meade

section, bought for a reported $2.3

million, is shown in 2002. A research

group claims that Mr. Gore's 20-room,

eight-bathroom home consumes more

electricity in a month than the average

American household uses in a year.

[stignasty]

Vice President Gore's home,

in Nashville's exclusive Belle Meade

section, bought for a reported $2.3

million, is shown in 2002. A research

group claims that Mr. Gore's 20-room,

eight-bathroom home consumes more

electricity in a month than the average

American household uses in a year.

The specific numbers involved may be disputable (the TCPR claimed Gore's home uses electricity at a rate more than "20 times the national average," while the Associated Press reported that their own review of bills indicated that the Gores' Nashville household used more than 12 times the average for a typical household in that area), but the gist of the claim — that the Gores' Nashville residence consumes a substantially large proportion of energy than the average American home — is true.

A spokesperson for the Gore family responded by noting some mitigating factors, such as the fact that the Gores' Nashville residence isn't an "average" house — it's about four times larger than the average new American home built in 2006, and it essentially functions as both a residence and a business office since both Al and Tipper work out of their home. The Tennessean also noted that the Gores had been paying a $432 per month premium on their monthly electricity bills in order to obtain some of their electricity from "green" sources (i.e., solar or other renewable energy sources).

The former vice-president maintained that comparing raw energy-usage figures is misleading and that he leads what he advocates, a "carbon-neutral lifestyle," by purchasing energy from renewable energy sources such as solar, wind and methane gas to balance out the carbon emissions produced in generating the electricity his home uses:

Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it."

A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses.

The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local Green Power Switch program — electricity generated through renewable resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero."

Last updated: 28 February 2007

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

[Topaz]

Canada is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. We have alot of natural resources and ALL of us in this country should try our best to keep to clean and the air pure, as well as we can. What is wrong in look after the air, the water and the land. I was taught to look after what you have so it will last. If we don't maintain these then our health will suffer for it. I saw on the news now CHINA is getting concerned over their environment and the pollution its creating. Perhaps Bush will see the light too, then our air here in Canada will not be so polluted in the summer. You have your views and I know that most Canadians will not agree with you. You are free to say what you think and as you do, I see you as one of Harper's gang acting like an immature teen, trying to show the others that you know more then them! You have a good day now.

[Moonlight Graham]

and claiming that the evolution of the earth has seen the same ebbs and tides of warming and cooling that we are seeing today

Actually - it has. The earth has been fluctuating in temperature for eons - and it's cooler now than it has been in the past.

Dude i checked out that link, i'm not disputing it or agreeing with it but at the bottom of the page it says "Last Modified Friday 28 March 1997".

More recent data might help the debate better.

[geoffrey]

Dude i checked out that link, i'm not disputing it or agreeing with it but at the bottom of the page it says "Last Modified Friday 28 March 1997".

Does that get the award for post of the week or what?