Questions for the 'Hurrah for Israel' crowd

[Figleaf]

Questions for the 'Hurrah for Israel' crowd:

In terms of a comprehensive resolution of the Palestine/Israel conflict --

1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?

[Figleaf]

Scriblett? Jbg? Argus? Hello?

[scribblet]

I don't have much time to go into a lot of detail, have company coming for a few days.

The 'right of return' is not acceptable but, peace would be very easy to achieve if Palestine accepted Israel's right to exist, quit turning its kids into human bombs and simply quit attacking Israel. If they dismantled their terrorist camps, concentrated on their economy, set up schools (minus the hate) they will have a chance.

Other than the right of return, there have been acceptable plans in the past, one I believe Arafat agreed to, but didn't implement. If they do renounce terrorism and quit attacking Israel, there would be more international foreign aid.

I see no reason why Arab oil rich States couldn't do more to help their economy, in fact one simple solution would be for Jordan et al to annex 'palestine' and take in all the people as citizens. (but they don't want them do they).

As Golda Meir once said: There will never be peace as long as they (Palestine) hate Israel more than they love their children.

This is interesting:

http://www.therightroadtopeace.com/eng/MainPlanEng.html

Key principles of the Elon Peace Plan

1. Immediate dissolution of the Palestinian Authority, a non-viable entity with no future, whose existence precludes the termination of the conflict.

2. Israel will uproot the Palestinian terror infrastructure. All arms will be collected, incitement will be stopped and all the refugee camps, which serve as incubators for terror, will be dismantled. Terrorists and their direct supporters will be deported.

3. Israel, the United States and the international community will recognize the Kingdom of Jordan as the only legitimate representative of the Palestinians. Jordan will once again recognize itself as the Palestinian nation-state.

In the context of a regional economic development program, Israel, the United States and the international community will put forth a concerted effort for the long-term development of Jordan, to rehabilitate its economy and enable it to absorb a limited number of refugees within its borders. Recognition and Development of Jordan as the Palestinian State

4. Israeli sovereignty will be asserted over Judea, Samaria and Gaza (the West Bank). The Arab residents of these areas will become citizens of the Palestinian state in Jordan. The status of these citizens, their connection to the two states and the manner of administration of their communal lives will be decided in an agreement between the governments of Israel and Jordan (Palestine). Israeli sovereignty over Judea, Samaria and Gaza

5. Israel, the United States and the international community will allocate resources for the completion of the exchange of populations that began in 1948, as well as the full rehabilitation of the refugees and their absorption and naturalization in various countries. Rehabilitation of refugees and completion of population exchange

6. After implementation of the above stages, Israel and Jordan-Palestine will declare the conflict terminated. Both sides will work to normalize peaceful relations between all parties in the region. Peace and normalization

For more rationale and details: Principles 1-2 | Principle 3 | Principle 4 | Principles 5-6

Underlying principles of the Elon Peace Plan:

No other proposal addresses final-status issues. The Elon plan offers a way to translate the achievements of the war in Iraq into a new "Marshall Plan" for the Middle East, a plan that is based, on the one hand on Israel, the only stable democracy in the region, and, on the other, on Jordan which has a quasi-democratic government, thus removing the Palestinian terrorist regime from the picture.

[Figleaf]

Thank you for your reply. I have taken the liberty of parsing your response to match the format of my questions. It appears then that in response to question 1, you recommend:

...

-Palestine accepted Israel's right to exist, ...

-quit turning its kids into human bombs and ...

-simply quit attacking Israel. ...

-dismantled their terrorist camps, ...

-concentrated on their economy, ...

-set up schools (minus the hate) ...

-renounce terrorism and quit attacking Israel

And for question 2, you suggest this policy change will yield these outcomes:

-they will have a chance.

-The 'right of return' is not acceptable

-there would be more international foreign aid.

-no reason why Arab oil rich States couldn't do more to help their economy,

-Jordan et al to annex 'palestine' and take in all the people as citizens.

So, it seems like you recommend capitulation by the Palestinians, and the submersion and eradication of their cultural identity.

Tell me, why would you expect them to accede to this program?

BTW, the absurd impracticality, bizarre ahistoricality, and essential unethicalness (not to mention the violations of human rights and international law it implies) of the Elon "Peace" plan make it unworthy of comment.

[Remiel]

Besides, you know it is flawed as soon as you come upon " Deport The Terrorists " . Deport them to where? They're Palestinian! That would be like saying, " We're going to deport the Sunni insurgents in Iraq! " without acknowledging that you can't, because they're Iraqi.

[M.Dancer]

Questions for the 'Hurrah for Israel' crowd:

In terms of a comprehensive resolution of the Palestine/Israel conflict --

1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?

1) Stop providing the ways and means for terrorists to bomb falafel stands and murder old men and children

2) Civil war

There is no interest from either Hamas or Fatah for peace, as each are criminal organizations and receive truck loads of cash by playing victim mafia.

The same scenario played itself out in N Ireland, with the IRA making pants of cash from "taxing" the people....the first side to clamp down on their prime marketing tool, the suicide bomber, will be seen as a takeover target for their infrastructure and weapons.

[Figleaf]

Questions for the 'Hurrah for Israel' crowd:

In terms of a comprehensive resolution of the Palestine/Israel conflict --

1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?

1) Stop providing the ways and means for terrorists to bomb falafel stands and murder old men and children

2) Civil war ...

I don't understand your reply. You suggest that Palestinians should stop bombings in order that they can hold a civil war? How does that make any sense?

(BTW, doesn't one need a country to have a civil war?)

[southerncomfort]

It is not in the best interests of the Palestinians to make peace. Heck they can continue their victimization status which gets them support.

and here it is from the horses mouth (or ass)

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/CrisesArti...rld-C4-Crisis-3

"We will never recognise Israel. There is nothing called Israel, neither in reality nor in the imagination," Nizar Rayyan, a senior Hamas leader in Gaza, told Reuters.

Rayyan welcomed the unity government agreement reached in Mecca but said that Hamas shunned Abbas's call for Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, who will form the new cabinet, to abide by previous peace accords.

"We, in the Hamas movement, will not abide by anything," he said.

The comments were endorsed by Hamas spokesman Ismail Rudwan, who said: "The recognition is not an option at all, is not discussable."

[Black Dog]

Someone should tell Hamas' leadership that hey'll never recognize Israel.

Hamas acknowledges the existence of Israel as a reality but formal recognition will only be considered when a Palestinian state has been created, the movement's exiled leader Khaled Meshaal said on Wednesday.

Softening a previous refusal to accept the Jewish state's existence, Meshaal said Israel was a "matter of fact" and a reality that will persist.

"There will remain a state called Israel," Meshaal said in an interview in the Syrian capital, in what appeared to be clearest statement yet by the Islamist group on its attitude toward the state it previously said had no right to exist.

link

Anyway, I'm curious about why people get so hung up on the "recognition" thing. What does it mean?

And if Hamas were to say "we recognize Israel," would anything change? I question the assumption that, were the Palestinians to recognize Israel and renounce violence, that their situation would suddenly and dramatically change.

[M.Dancer]

Questions for the 'Hurrah for Israel' crowd:

In terms of a comprehensive resolution of the Palestine/Israel conflict --

1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?

1) Stop providing the ways and means for terrorists to bomb falafel stands and murder old men and children

2) Civil war ...

I don't understand your reply. You suggest that Palestinians should stop bombings in order that they can hold a civil war? How does that make any sense?

(BTW, doesn't one need a country to have a civil war?)

You should try reading and comprehending your own your questions better, to wit......

2) What outcome do you think they should expect

The outcome of one of the two groups pursuing peace will be civil war...

I am not suggesting that they should stop in order to have a civil war, they should really have the civil a war first. But as long as there sympathizers who equate peace with capitulation, there will be alienated teens willing to murder and dupes to fleece a plenty.

[Figleaf]

Questions for the 'Hurrah for Israel' crowd:

In terms of a comprehensive resolution of the Palestine/Israel conflict --

1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?

1) Stop providing the ways and means for terrorists to bomb falafel stands and murder old men and children

2) Civil war ...

I don't understand your reply. You suggest that Palestinians should stop bombings in order that they can hold a civil war? How does that make any sense?

(BTW, doesn't one need a country to have a civil war?)

You should try reading and comprehending your own your questions better, to wit......

2) What outcome do you think they should expect

The outcome of one of the two groups pursuing peace will be civil war...

I understand my questions just fine, but your response seems goofy. Why would civil war be the result of a cessation of hostilities? Why should they do what you suggest if the outcome would be civil war?

[M.Dancer]

Questions for the 'Hurrah for Israel' crowd:

In terms of a comprehensive resolution of the Palestine/Israel conflict --

1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?

1) Stop providing the ways and means for terrorists to bomb falafel stands and murder old men and children

2) Civil war ...

I don't understand your reply. You suggest that Palestinians should stop bombings in order that they can hold a civil war? How does that make any sense?

(BTW, doesn't one need a country to have a civil war?)

You should try reading and comprehending your own your questions better, to wit......

2) What outcome do you think they should expect

The outcome of one of the two groups pursuing peace will be civil war...

I understand my questions just fine, but your response seems goofy. Why would civil war be the result of a cessation of hostilities? Why should they do what you suggest if the outcome would be civil war?

The outcome is likely because the dynamic is like two mobs fighting over control of some turf. It's what hapened in Northern Ireland and that is why neithe hamas or fatah have any real intwerst in peace. They all want to be mini Arafats.....making cash like a big plo pimp

[Figleaf]

The outcome is likely because the dynamic is like two mobs fighting over control of some turf.

And right now they are 'united' by a common enemy and ceasing hostilities would end that? Is that what you mean?

Anyway, my question was more about the inter-nation dynamic rather than the intra-Palestinian one. What could they expect on that end of things?

[Catchme]

IMV, war has been going on for almosyt 60 years. It is hard to start one when one already exists. Over simplification, of this and asking for a Zionist response is hardly a correct thing. Most people do not even know how Israel came about leading to now either. Read below some pertinent facts.

What Really Happened Fifty Years Ago?

..scholars mining the mountains of new documents were of an ideological persuasion that prepared them to take a more neutral position...they referred to the war simply by the year it happened –the 1948 war, rather than the Israeli term, the “War of Independence,” or the Arabic reference, Nakba (Catastrophe). importantly, the end result of their research was an historical account that sharply contradicted the official Israeli version of the 1948 war.

The new historiographical picture is a fundamental challenge to the official history that says the Jewish community in Palestine faced possible annihilation on the eve of the 1948 war. Archival documents expose a fragmented Arab world wrought by dismay and confusion and a Palestinian community that possessed no military ability with which to threaten the Jews. ... annihilation was impossible because of Jewish superiority in two crucial areas, diplomacy and military preparedness. The Jewish community had carried the day in diplomatic maneuvering in the United Nations and by accurately analyzing the balance of military power on the ground. An unwritten agreement between the Jewish Agency and the Arab Legion, the strongest Arab force in the area, practically guaranteed that the battle-ready Jewish forces would prevail.

There are sociological explanations for the Jewish victories on the diplomatic and battle fronts...Contrary to both the Palestinian and Zionist historical narratives, the new historians do not accuse Britain of favoring either side or of collusion with the enemy. They also reject the claim of Jewish extremists that their terrorist campaign forced Britain to withdraw. An economic crisis in Britain and the overall decline of the British Empire forced Britain to be content with holding only those areas..that were of high strategic value in..Palestine was not one of them. Early on, leaders of the Jewish community recognized the imminent end of British...while the..Palestinians seemed convinced that the British Mandate would remain longer..the moment London decided to refer the Palestine Mandate to the United Nations—the Jewish leadership in Palestine effectively mobilized its community and prepared it for the takeover of the Mandatory government and its functions. The Palestinian leadership, with its prominent members exiled abroad by the British, did very little in this direction, and failed to organize its community financially or militarily.

The result was that the Jewish community was superior both militarily and financially when a civil war broke out between the two communities in November 1947. Jewish superiority also was evident in the number of fighting men. In the local war, which lasted between November 1947 and May 1948, Jewish forces took control of all of the mixed Jewish-Arab towns in Palestine and seized crucial transport routes as well. The end of Palestinian presence in Palestine began not because few Jews fought against many Arabs, as the official Zionist version would have it, nor was it a miracle, as the mainstream Israeli historians tend to describe it. It was simply the outcome of a military advantage.

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=35&aid=427&pg=4

From documents a the University of Haifa, Israel - by Illan Pappe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wiki is actually a great read on this and shows quite clearly Zionist Jews were conducting acts of terror, against the British see below:

The Holocaust had a major effect ..in Palestine. During the war, the British forbade entry into Palestine of European Jews escaping Nazi persecution, placing them in detention camps or deporting them to places such as Mauritius. Avraham Stern, the leader of the Jewish Lehi underground group, whose will to fight the British was so strong he offered to fight on the Nazi side, and other Zionists, tried to convince the Nazis to continue seeing emigration from Europe as the "solution" for their "Jewish problem", Starting in 1939, the Zionists organized an illegal immigration effort, known as Aliya Beth, conducted by "Hamossad Le'aliyah Bet"...members of the Jewish Lehi underground, assassinated Lord Moyne in Cairo on 6 November 1944. Moyne was the British Minister of State for the Middle East.

Following the war.. Jewish refugees were stranded in displaced persons (DP) camps in Europe...the British refused to lift the ban on immigration..The Jewish underground forces then united and carried out several attacks against the British. In 1946, the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of the British administration, killing 92 people. Seeing that the situation was quickly spiraling out of hand, the British announced their desire to terminate their mandate and to withdraw by May 1948.

The United Nations..attempted to solve the dispute between the Palestinian Jews and Arabs...(UNSCOP), composed of representatives from several states...considered two main proposals. The first called for the creation of independent.. states in Palestine, with Jerusalem to be placed under international administration. The second called for the creation of a single federal state containing both Jewish and Arab constituent states...the first option was adopted..The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal.

The partition plan was rejected..by the leadership of the Palestinian Arabs and by most of the Arab population. Most of the Jews accepted the proposal, in particular the Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation. Numerous records indicate the joy of Palestine's Jewish inhabitants as they attended the U.N. session voting for the division proposal. ..Several Jews, however, declined the proposal. Menachem Begin, Irgun's leader, announced: "The partition of the homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature by institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. The Land of Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for ever". His views were publicly rejected by the majority of the nascent Jewish state. ..On the date of British withdrawal the Jewish provisional government declared the formation of the State of Israel, and said that it would grant full civil rights to all within its borders, whether Arab, Jew, Bedouin or Druze. The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel.. stated:

We appeal ... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

So, basically the land was stolen from the Palestinians, and the Israeli governments have never acted in good faith according to the partition, or indeed their own words.

No, I am not condoning the actions of Palestinians, but I am not prepared to condone the actions of Zionists either. They are the pot calling the kettle black.

[geoffrey]

1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

a - Stop brainwashing children into suicide bombers in the school system.

b - Actually enforce the law in your state and charge anyone suspected of being a terrorist or anyone that is a member of a terrorist organization(so nearly the entire government)

c - Stop electing outspoken terrorists determined to destroy your neighbour.

d - Tell the world where all of the aid has gone

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?

The creation of a civilized democracy that can peacefully co-exist with the Israelis.

[Catchme]

Why are you putting the ALL the onus on the Palestinians?

And how about getting Israel to try and live a peaceful co-existence, as well?

geoffery, respectfully, please do read, learn, and expand as a human being about Israel. Israel is not just the harmed one in this circumstance. Labeling this act right and this act wrong in this situation is incorrect, simple theory only works for simple minds.

[geoffrey]

Why are you putting the ALL the onus on the Palestinians?

I'm not, I was answering the questions, namely, and I quote:

"1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?"

And how about getting Israel to try and live a peaceful co-existence, as well?

Sure, I think that Israel needs to limit their attacks to proven terrorist targets alone. Palestine won't crack down on their own terrorists (well, a terrorist regime is in power, so why would you expect that), so Israel has to protect itself. Same applies to Lebanon. When they get their countries under the rule of law, then Israel won't have to protect itself anymore.

geoffery, respectfully, please do read, learn, and expand as a human being about Israel. Israel is not just the harmed one in this circumstance. Labeling this act right and this act wrong in this situation is incorrect, simple theory only works for simple minds.

Israel isn't the harmed one? I don't see them sending their children into Lebanon or Palestine and blowing themselves up in pizza parlours or discos.

Please. Israel's actions are always a response to or in prevention of a terrorist act against their civilian population.

Palestine is getting what they deserve. When you democratically elect a government of internationally recognized terrorists, my sympathy for you drops considerably. Why should I care about them, they support the attack on civilians in Israel?

Sure I think Israel has been less than restrained in their own defence, I was very outspoken against the scale of their assault on Lebanon after their soliders were kidnapped. But they have a right to defend their sovereign land and the people that reside in it.

Until Palestinians and Lebanese take the responsibility to rid their lands of terrorism, they aren't going to have peace. When they vote to endorse terrorism on a regular basis, then you've really got to wonder how innocent these people are.

[Catchme]

IMV, war has been going on for almosyt 60 years. It is hard to start one when one already exists. Over simplification, of this and asking for a Zionist response is hardly a correct thing. Most people do not even know how Israel came about leading to now either. Read below some pertinent facts.

What Really Happened Fifty Years Ago?

..scholars mining the mountains of new documents were of an ideological persuasion that prepared them to take a more neutral position...they referred to the war simply by the year it happened –the 1948 war, rather than the Israeli term, the “War of Independence,” or the Arabic reference, Nakba (Catastrophe). importantly, the end result of their research was an historical account that sharply contradicted the official Israeli version of the 1948 war.

The new historiographical picture is a fundamental challenge to the official history that says the Jewish community in Palestine faced possible annihilation on the eve of the 1948 war. Archival documents expose a fragmented Arab world wrought by dismay and confusion and a Palestinian community that possessed no military ability with which to threaten the Jews. ... annihilation was impossible because of Jewish superiority in two crucial areas, diplomacy and military preparedness. The Jewish community had carried the day in diplomatic maneuvering in the United Nations and by accurately analyzing the balance of military power on the ground. An unwritten agreement between the Jewish Agency and the Arab Legion, the strongest Arab force in the area, practically guaranteed that the battle-ready Jewish forces would prevail.

There are sociological explanations for the Jewish victories on the diplomatic and battle fronts...Contrary to both the Palestinian and Zionist historical narratives, the new historians do not accuse Britain of favoring either side or of collusion with the enemy. They also reject the claim of Jewish extremists that their terrorist campaign forced Britain to withdraw. An economic crisis in Britain and the overall decline of the British Empire forced Britain to be content with holding only those areas..that were of high strategic value in..Palestine was not one of them. Early on, leaders of the Jewish community recognized the imminent end of British...while the..Palestinians seemed convinced that the British Mandate would remain longer..the moment London decided to refer the Palestine Mandate to the United Nations—the Jewish leadership in Palestine effectively mobilized its community and prepared it for the takeover of the Mandatory government and its functions. The Palestinian leadership, with its prominent members exiled abroad by the British, did very little in this direction, and failed to organize its community financially or militarily.

The result was that the Jewish community was superior both militarily and financially when a civil war broke out between the two communities in November 1947. Jewish superiority also was evident in the number of fighting men. In the local war, which lasted between November 1947 and May 1948, Jewish forces took control of all of the mixed Jewish-Arab towns in Palestine and seized crucial transport routes as well. The end of Palestinian presence in Palestine began not because few Jews fought against many Arabs, as the official Zionist version would have it, nor was it a miracle, as the mainstream Israeli historians tend to describe it. It was simply the outcome of a military advantage.

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=35&aid=427&pg=4

From documents a the University of Haifa, Israel - by Illan Pappe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wiki is actually a great read on this and shows quite clearly Zionist Jews were conducting acts of terror, against the British see below:

The Holocaust had a major effect ..in Palestine. During the war, the British forbade entry into Palestine of European Jews escaping Nazi persecution, placing them in detention camps or deporting them to places such as Mauritius. Avraham Stern, the leader of the Jewish Lehi underground group, whose will to fight the British was so strong he offered to fight on the Nazi side, and other Zionists, tried to convince the Nazis to continue seeing emigration from Europe as the "solution" for their "Jewish problem", Starting in 1939, the Zionists organized an illegal immigration effort, known as Aliya Beth, conducted by "Hamossad Le'aliyah Bet"...members of the Jewish Lehi underground, assassinated Lord Moyne in Cairo on 6 November 1944. Moyne was the British Minister of State for the Middle East.

Following the war.. Jewish refugees were stranded in displaced persons (DP) camps in Europe...the British refused to lift the ban on immigration..The Jewish underground forces then united and carried out several attacks against the British. In 1946, the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of the British administration, killing 92 people. Seeing that the situation was quickly spiraling out of hand, the British announced their desire to terminate their mandate and to withdraw by May 1948.

The United Nations..attempted to solve the dispute between the Palestinian Jews and Arabs...(UNSCOP), composed of representatives from several states...considered two main proposals. The first called for the creation of independent.. states in Palestine, with Jerusalem to be placed under international administration. The second called for the creation of a single federal state containing both Jewish and Arab constituent states...the first option was adopted..The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal.

The partition plan was rejected..by the leadership of the Palestinian Arabs and by most of the Arab population. Most of the Jews accepted the proposal, in particular the Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation. Numerous records indicate the joy of Palestine's Jewish inhabitants as they attended the U.N. session voting for the division proposal. ..Several Jews, however, declined the proposal. Menachem Begin, Irgun's leader, announced: "The partition of the homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature by institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. The Land of Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for ever". His views were publicly rejected by the majority of the nascent Jewish state. ..On the date of British withdrawal the Jewish provisional government declared the formation of the State of Israel, and said that it would grant full civil rights to all within its borders, whether Arab, Jew, Bedouin or Druze. The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel.. stated:

We appeal ... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

So, basically the land was stolen from the Palestinians, and the Israeli governments have never acted in good faith according to the partition, or indeed their own words.

No, I am not condoning the actions of Palestinians, but I am not prepared to condone the actions of Zionists either. They are the pot calling the kettle black.

geoffery, you seem not to be very well informed as the ACTUAL events as they occured, please do start with this snap shot, I provided before, and do read the links. You might find it helpful to form an accurate opinion. Plus there are many more facts upon the ground you seem also not to be aware of.

It is unfortunate when people have a ill founded view of events, and turn then it against people, who may, or may not deserve it.

[Figleaf]

1) What do you think the Palestinian side should actually do?

a - Stop brainwashing children into suicide bombers in the school system.

b - Actually enforce the law in your state and charge anyone suspected of being a terrorist or anyone that is a member of a terrorist organization(so nearly the entire government)

c - Stop electing outspoken terrorists determined to destroy your neighbour.

d - Tell the world where all of the aid has gone

2) What outcome do you think they should expect by adopting your suggestion (please provide specifics)?

The creation of a civilized democracy that can peacefully co-exist with the Israelis.

Thank you for your reply.

Regarding 'b', are you aware of two important practical impediments? To whit, 1-the don't have a state, b-Israel slaughters Palestinian security forces every chance they get.

Regarding the outcome (question 2) you envision, please explain how you think that result will flow from your recommendation. Also, please be specific, where will their democracy be? What will its borders be? Will it be a sovereign state, politically equal with the rest?

[Figleaf]

Israel isn't the harmed one? I don't see them sending their children into Lebanon or Palestine and blowing themselves up in pizza parlours or discos.

No, but you see them sending their youth in with tanks and guns blowing up airports and water treatment facilities.

Palestine is getting what they deserve.

!!!

How did they 'deserve' what happened in 1947-48?

[jefferiah]

There was no such thing as the Palestinian people in '48. All of Palestine will be Israel.

[Figleaf]

There was no such thing as the Palestinian people in '48.

Hooey.

Good grief, with that kind of thinking, you'll be denying the holocaust next.

[jefferiah]

It's true. Back then nobody identified themselves as Palestinian.

[Figleaf]

It's true. Back then nobody identified themselves as Palestinian.

Use of a particular word is not the issue.

[jefferiah]

Sure it is. Now all of a sudden they are a people, a nation, who had their land stolen.