'evolution by stealth': Deep Integration

[Catchme]

A total news blackout accompanied the week long conference - nothing in the news while it was going on but for this one local Banff paper, who have updated their scoop here. At the time, some small amusement was provided by Stockwell Day who first asserted that there was no meeting and then later admitted that there had indeed been one but it wasn't a secret.

Now, courtesy of US Freedom of Information laws and the gods of irony, Canadians have access to some notes from those meetings.

From the Ottawa Citizen :

"Canadian, U.S. and Mexican politicians discussed using "stealth" to overcome public resistance to the integration of the three countries at a confidential meeting last year, according to documents just released under U.S. Freedom of Information laws.

Top military brass, corporate executives and diplomats also attended the meeting in Banff, Alta., where participants discussed everything from the harmonization of food and drug standards, to common immigration policies, and the pooling of energy resources.

The secret guest list of the North American Forum included then-U.S. secretary of defence Donald Rumsfeld, Canadian Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier, Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day, Pengrowth Corp. CEO James Kinnear and Lockheed Martin executive Ron Covais.

http://creekside1.blogspot.com/2007/02/not...-anschluss.html

Wow, didn't we just give a NO BID contract to Lockheed Martin?

Then there is Pengrowth Corp, worth a google in its own right. As Pengrowth Energy Trust is one of the largest energy royalty trusts in the world.

Banff attendee Ron Covais, President of the Americas for Lockheed Martin and a former Pentagon adviser to Dick Cheney, explained it this way to Macleans :

"This is how the future of North America now promises to be written: not in a sweeping trade agreement on which elections will turn, but by the accretion of hundreds of incremental changes implemented by executive agencies, bureaucracies and regulators.

"We've decided not to recommend any things that would require legislative changes," says Covais. "Because we won't get anywhere."

"Covais figures they've got less than two years of political will to make it happen. That's when the Bush administration exits, and "The clock will stop if the Harper minority government falls or a new government is elected." "

Ron Covais deep Intergration winner of a NO BID CONTRACT

So, we have a Harper government doing things unknown to us that do not need legislative changes, such as NO BID contracts.

Council of Canadians has expressed concern that :

"Most of the 300 policy recommendations within the accord may not require legislative changes."

Presentation outlines for the forum acknowledge that the concept of North American integration - which some call a "North American Union" - is unpopular, and note that it might be tough to sell as a concept.

"While a vision is appealing, working on the infrastructure might yield more benefit and bring more people on board ('evolution by stealth')," the notes said."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...&articleId=4216

[Canadian Blue]

I watched that movie conspiracy theory the other day, well atleast half of it. It was alright.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Fortress North America is not a new concept by any stretch of the imagination. If you think about it for a minute or two it make good sense in economic terms. Canada has the resources, America has the industrial capacity and Mexico has the labour force. When you take into consideration the economic threat of the Asian land mass there are few options available for us to utilize to our advantage. Granted there is great political differences between the three countries but it seems that there has been effort made to nullify the impact of politics within the proposed concept.

It needs to be said that capitalism is attempting to make a stand here. Without this type of economic cooperation there is a distinct possibility that our western society in North America will suffer in competition and trade to the extent that our standards of living will be adversely impacted.

[Catchme]

The only benefits to deep integration would be to corporations who are already reeping unprecidented profits.

I for one, as a Canadian, do not want to absorb the trillion + American war debts, war mongering ideology.

Why should we have to share our resources with the USA? We don't, they are ours.

Nor can they "fortress North America" what a ridiculous presumption that is on their part, and if anyone believes it, I got some land for sale.

Jobs are being exported OUT of North America. Resources are being exported out of North America.

There is no "fire walling" North America, it is propaganda that is trying to be sold to people as a bill of goods.

[Wilber]

Wow, didn't we just give a NO BID contract to Lockheed Martin?

You keep dragging this one out. It's hard to put something out for bid when only one company builds what you need.

[sharkman]

The only benefits to deep integration would be to corporations who are already reeping unprecidented profits.

I for one, as a Canadian, do not want to absorb the trillion + American war debts, war mongering ideology.

Why should we have to share our resources with the USA? We don't, they are ours.

Nor can they "fortress North America" what a ridiculous presumption that is on their part, and if anyone believes it, I got some land for sale.

Jobs are being exported OUT of North America. Resources are being exported out of North America.

There is no "fire walling" North America, it is propaganda that is trying to be sold to people as a bill of goods.

Geez, we alreay share our resources with the US. They pay us for it, and we are doing quite well thank you. It's a knee jerk reaction to assume anyone would assume any of the US's debt. Don't look now but our economy is pumping out jobs and our unemployment rate has been quite low and will continue to be so for some time. You are so scared of everything. How old are you?

[jbg]

Catchme, would you have another choice for a neighbor? How about Lebanon? Iran? Saudi Arabian?

[Slavik44]

Catchme, would you have another choice for a neighbor? How about Lebanon? Iran? Saudi Arabian?

Hey we might like America as a nieghbor, we might like America as a friend, but we don't like America in that way, why can't we just stay friends and nieghbors?

[Catchme]

Catchme, would you have another choice for a neighbor? How about Lebanon? Iran? Saudi Arabian?

Hey we might like America as a nieghbor, we might like America as a friend, but we don't like America in that way, why can't we just stay friends and nieghbors?

Exactly frienda and neighbours do not give the other everything they own. Or pay off their debts.

It is not an either or situation here.

How abouts we just stay as we are?

[Saturn]

Geez, we alreay share our resources with the US. They pay us for it, and we are doing quite well thank you.

They pay you for it because it's still yours. Remember NEP? It happened because Canadians outside of Alberta (incorrectly according to you) assumed that it's their resources too and that you must share them with ROC. Now let 500 million Americans and Mexicans think that they also have some rights to your resources and then imagine trying to fight them off when things go bad and they decide that you must share (like it or not).

[Saturn]

Catchme, would you have another choice for a neighbor? How about Lebanon? Iran? Saudi Arabian?

I'd rather have many neighbours - the US broken up into pieces of roughly 30 million each

But you seem to prefer having a different neighbour, seeing that many of your politicians seem to blame Canada your domestic problems. Who's it gonna be? Russia? Pakistan?

[jbg]

You won't hear this American voice calling for merger of the countries.

[margrace]

Catch me you certainly brought some of the Moles on this board. Beware of their arguments, I find that there are plants on many of the seemly open boards.

[southerncomfort]

Catch me you certainly brought some of the Moles on this board. Beware of their arguments, I find that there are plants on many of the seemly open boards.

Wot on earth are you going on about please explain. Plants, moles , why is this [seemingly] an open board, you've lost me. catchme is the rabble plant but I'd say extreme even for rabble, Now I know I need a tin foil hat.

Deep integration whooooo scary scary, I would rather the U.S. as a neighbour than other countries I can think of. You really do need to explain what you mean, like you are afraid that you might not be able to feed off the public teet or what?

[scribblet]

Catch me you certainly brought some of the Moles on this board. Beware of their arguments, I find that there are plants on many of the seemly open boards.

Margrace, sometimes I wonder what on earth you are talking about. Why do you consider some posters as 'plants' or 'moles'; to whom do they report or who planted them and why?. Do you feel that way about every American who posts on every Canadian board or just those you don't agree with?

Without getting personal r crossing any lines, I have to wonder if catchme isn't a radical left wing 'plant' sent to destroy a balanced forum, but I generally don't believe in that kind of thing.

If you read MLWs home page it explains what they are about or maybe you could pm the administrator and ask him about your views, and don't forget this forum is funded by a university, not the government.

As to 'deep integration', that is bullroar, I have no problem with maintaining good relations in all areas with the U.S., they are our largest trading partner and ally.

[Catchme]

Geez, we alreay share our resources with the US. They pay us for it, and we are doing quite well thank you.

They pay you for it because it's still yours. Remember NEP? It happened because Canadians outside of Alberta (incorrectly according to you) assumed that it's their resources too and that you must share them with ROC. Now let 500 million Americans and Mexicans think that they also have some rights to your resources and then imagine trying to fight them off when things go bad and they decide that you must share (like it or not).

Very good point Saturn, and quite obvious, which makes one wonder what exactly some are thinking by backing "fire walling" NA.

Why should Canadians absorb the US monetary debts?

Why should Canadians give away our resources?

And just what benefit would there be to Canadians, besides none?

That the CPC has engaged in subterfuge to try and pull off deep integration is heinous.

[White Doors]

Poser,

Do you really care for the TRUTH at all? Why not? How sad is it that you lie to yourself in order to denigrate anything you don't believe in? Why aren't you a proud Canadian?

[Catchme]

Poser,Do you really care for the TRUTH at all? Why not? How sad is it that you lie to yourself in order to denigrate anything you don't believe in? Why aren't you a proud Canadian?

How about you point out any lies, or untruths in my words? Instead of making personal smears, based upon your personal opinions, that have no substance, you should be debating the points and providing evidence to the contrary. That you do not, or actually cannot says much.

Of course, I am proud to be a Canadian unlike those who want to become part of the USA, or who would subvert Canadian by stealth.

[geoffrey]

We integrate our economy more with the US, or we lose to China. Bottom line.

We don't have to sacrifice sovereignty (whatever that means in Canada) in order to cooperate more and increase trade. Through trade we will be stronger than China, without it, our downward spiral will continue.

[scribblet]

Very good point Saturn, and quite obvious, which makes one wonder what exactly some are thinking by backing "fire walling" NA.

Why should Canadians absorb the US monetary debts?

Why should Canadians give away our resources?

And just what benefit would there be to Canadians, besides none?

That the CPC has engaged in subterfuge to try and pull off deep integration is heinous.

Canadians are not 'absorbing the US monetary debts'

We are not giving away our resources, we are selling them for profit

Trade with the U.S. is most beneficial to our economy, no trade would tank the economy

As for the ' subterfuge to try and pull off deep integration- what is heinous are spurious comments/opinions such as that.

[Catchme]

Very good point Saturn, and quite obvious, which makes one wonder what exactly some are thinking by backing "fire walling" NA.

Why should Canadians absorb the US monetary debts?

Why should Canadians give away our resources?

And just what benefit would there be to Canadians, besides none?

That the CPC has engaged in subterfuge to try and pull off deep integration is heinous.

Canadians are not 'absorbing the US monetary debts'

We are not giving away our resources, we are selling them for profit

Trade with the U.S. is most beneficial to our economy, no trade would tank the economy

As for the ' subterfuge to try and pull off deep integration- what is heinous are spurious comments/opinions such as that.

It seems as though you have not followed along scribblet, so here is a re-iteration of the conversation posts to this point.

A secret deep integration meeting was held in Banff Last fall with Cheney Israel, Hillier, Lockhead Martin, and Stockwell day amongst others. There they planned to steathfully go behind canadians back a go forward with deep integration with the end result being a full North American Union. They want this accomplished before Harper and Bush leave their positions, as they know it will not happen otherwise.

The proof of this is in the links in this thread and the quotes from the links. It came out as a result of the USA Freedom of Information Act. There is no doubt, there are government records showing this.

If there was a North American Union to happen, which Harper et al are trying to accomplish, Canadians would be burdened with the USA's national debt, and we would be giving the USA, Canada.

There would be NO trade it would all just be NA.

[guyser]

A secret deep integration meeting was held in Banff Last fall with Cheney Israel, Hillier, Lockhead Martin, and Stockwell day amongst others. There they planned to steathfully go behind canadians back a go forward with deep integration with the end result being a full North American Union. They want this accomplished before Harper and Bush leave their positions, as they know it will not happen otherwise.

If there was a North American Union to happen, which Harper et al are trying to accomplish, Canadians would be burdened with the USA's national debt, and we would be giving the USA, Canada.

There would be NO trade it would all just be NA.

Oh more BS about the NAU. You think this country will put up with that? So it gets done while Bush and Harper are in power , well with one stroke of the pen it would be undone by the next govt.

It wont happen as you see it. It is more of a attempt to break down barriers for transport. Puts Kansas City in the middle as a "port" and all goods flow north and south to that point without checkpoints. It keeps goods moving instead of the constant stop and start we have now.

[scribblet]

A secret deep integration meeting was held in Banff Last fall with Cheney Israel, Hillier, Lockhead Martin, and Stockwell day amongst others.

Ah, a secret deep integration meeting held in stealth, I'm shivering in my shoes while I'm getting my tin foil hat out too.

[Catchme]

A total news blackout accompanied the week long conference - nothing in the news while it was going on but for this one local Banff paper, who have updated their scoop here. At the time, some small amusement was provided by Stockwell Day who first asserted that there was no meeting and then later admitted that there had indeed been one but it wasn't a secret.

"Canadian, U.S. and Mexican politicians discussed using "stealth" to overcome public resistance to the integration of the three countries at a confidential meeting last year, according to documents just released under U.S. Freedom of Information laws.

Top military brass, corporate executives and diplomats also attended the meeting in Banff, Alta., where participants discussed everything from the harmonization of food and drug standards, to common immigration policies, and the pooling of energy resources.

The secret guest list of the North American Forum included then-U.S. secretary of defence Donald Rumsfeld, Canadian Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier, Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day, Pengrowth Corp. CEO James Kinnear and Lockheed Martin executive Ron Covais.

Wow, didn't we just give a NO BID contract to Lockheed Martin?

Then there is Pengrowth Corp, worth a google in its own right. As Pengrowth Energy Trust is one of the largest energy royalty trusts in the world.

Banff attendee Ron Covais, President of the Americas for Lockheed Martin and a former Pentagon adviser to Dick Cheney, explained it this way to Macleans :

"This is how the future of North America now promises to be written: not in a sweeping trade agreement on which elections will turn, but by the accretion of hundreds of incremental changes implemented by executive agencies, bureaucracies and regulators.

"We've decided not to recommend any things that would require legislative changes," says Covais. "Because we won't get anywhere."

"Covais figures they've got less than two years of political will to make it happen. That's when the Bush administration exits, and "The clock will stop if the Harper minority government falls or a new government is elected." "

Ron Covais deep Intergration winner of a NO BID CONTRACT

Council of Canadians has expressed concern that :

"Most of the 300 policy recommendations within the accord may not require legislative changes."

Presentation outlines for the forum acknowledge that the concept of North American integration - which some call a "North American Union" - is unpopular, and note that it might be tough to sell as a concept.

"While a vision is appealing, working on the infrastructure might yield more benefit and bring more people on board ('evolution by stealth')," the notes said."

Apparently, some missed the first page, as they continue to use, disparging personal commentary, in place of actual debate or rebuttal. Please do rebutt the points presented.

[guyser]

Please do rebutt the points presented.

Its all over now, Catchme took the ball and went home. We are not allowed to have discourse .

Must be a little too hot in the kitchen.