3,500 City of Ottawa Jobs to be bilingual

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Many stores in Ottawa with NCC leases are FORCED by the federal government to supply bilingual services.

Ottawa has a French speaking population of 15% and supplies them with a federal style City of Ottawa bilingual policy. Merchants are encouraged to honour this bilingual policy.

I wish I could say the same thing for Gatineau, Quebec which has about the same percentage of English speaking Canadians but does not offer them a bilingual policy like Ottawa. In Gatineau the English population base must be 50% in order for Gatineau to offer its English speaking population a bilingual policy.

I have never heard of this. The only shops I'd magine being affected by language policies would be in museums, which is understandable. Do you have a citation for this? I'm actually curious as to which proportion of stores in Ottawa would be affected by this. I doubt it would be the case for chain stores that are spread out in other provinces/states, despite the fact that pretty much all shops in Orléans expect their floor staff to be bilingual.

Ottawa itself has a higher proportion of Francophones, around 30% last I heard. To be honnest if I were hiring staff for a shop in Ottawa, I'd prefer Lebanese Canadians who are fluent in English, French and Arabic, because such a language combination would most likely contribute to the potential revenue.

Ottawa's the capital of Canada, and Gatineau is a neighboring city in another province. It would be nice if Ottawa, the capital of a country of two languages would offer both of those languages to its residents and visitors. Gatineau, however does not concern me at all.

You cannot demand private industry to supply bilingual services with provinces NOT DESIGNATED or accommodating 'official bilingualism', that is my point.

In Canada outside of Quebec, English is the language of business and this is the language the large majority of business utilize.

You must think French is a majority language rather than a small minority residential language, dream on.

I never said I thought French were a majority language. Also, you just stated "outstide of Québec", meaning you're making an exception to Québec in your statement meaning you are admitting that English is not the majority language in Québec. That was one of my points earlier on. The majority language of Québec is French, and you cannot expect them to speak to you in any other language.

Granted you cannot expect private industry to supply bilingual services, but you also cannot expect the private sector to use any given language. If a company wants to sell you something, they'll communicate with you in your language. If they figure that they don't speak your language and can do fine without your business, they will not communicate with you in your language.

It is relevant to language policies.

Quebec reneged with their contract to Canada by not signing it.

Their should be NO federal language policies of any kind or any other language policies accommodating Quebec across Canada.

The Liberal federal government failed to penalize Quebec for their traitorous actions but rather REWARDED them.

Language policies do not accomodate Québec accross Canada, they accomodate Canadians speaking either official language accross Canada.

Québec has not been rewarded for not signing the contract. If anything they're being penalized, because they are the most segregated province.

Yes I can rightfully claim Canada to be otherwise.

But begin by describing it right.

A democracy is a system of government by the whole population, in our case, through elected representatives who are supposed to: "Within the House of Commons Members of Parliament (or MPs) sit to debate federal legislation. Members are elected in individual riding's based on population to represent and make decisions on behalf of the people of that riding."

http://www.thecanadapage.org/Government.htm

Canadians have been denied political justice by not being offered a plebiscite or national referendum to settle questions of national concern by their MP's or the PM in the case of a national referendum.

Personally I have no respect for a police state.

I'd like referenda on narcotics, abortion, marriage, immigration and immigrant integration, church and state, etc. Even in the most democratic countries you cannot get everything you want.

[Leafless]

I have never heard of this. The only shops I'd magine being affected by language policies would be in museums, which is understandable. Do you have a citation for this?

This is not an advertised thing, but if you were a federal public service employee, you would certainly be aware of this. You can check yourself by contacting the NCC directly.

For instance virtually all federal buildings that house private business, restaurants etc., are forced by their lease to provide bilingual services.

There are many buildings in downtown Ottawa, in the Sparks Street area, that are owned by the NCC with leases that demand they provide bilingual services.

I doubt it would be the case for chain stores that are spread out in other provinces/states, despite the fact that pretty much all shops in Orléans expect their floor staff to be bilingual.

Malls and shops in the Orleans, Ontario not governed by this as these are commercial buildings, nothing to do with the NCC.

Orleans is in Ontario and there is no way anyone can FORCE that store to supply bilingual services, as Ontario has never declared itself officially supportive of the two FEDERAL official languages. If they wish to do so as a courtesy is there business.

But to point out this is a dangerous policy to hire bilingual clerks in a majority English province as it discriminates against the majority English in the way of obtaining English only employment.

This causes an English backlash as to not to shop in stores that do not support the majority English language. I know people who upon finding out if a certain store hires Francophone's to supply bilingual services, they will go out of their way to shop in an English only store.

Ottawa itself has a higher proportion of Francophone's, around 30% last I heard.

Could you post that link, please rather than post unreliable information.

And if your numbers contradict my numbers, I will post my link.

Ottawa's the capital of Canada, and Gatineau is a neighboring city in another province. It would be nice if Ottawa, the capital of a country of two languages would offer both of those languages to its residents and visitors. Gatineau, however does not concern me at all.

I think the federal government in Ottawa and its relationship with the official languages does enough damage in the way of undemocratic manoeuvres and representation concerning languages.

Ottawa is just a regular city like Gatineau supported by residential tax payers.

I find it totally discriminatory to penalize the tax payers of Ottawa in the way of supporting the official languages, in a federal sense, which is really not the concern of the tax payers of Ottawa.

[Leafless]

I never said I thought French were a majority language. Also, you just stated "outstide of Québec", meaning you're making an exception to Québec in your statement meaning you are admitting that English is not the majority language in Québec.

I am not making any exception to what I said.

French is spoken in Quebec.

But when you figure out majorities and minorities on a national bases, calculations must be based relating to ALL ten provinces.

This makes Quebec a small minority with its French language in Canada.

Language policies do not accomodate Québec accross Canada, they accomodate Canadians speaking either official language accross Canada.

Well, according to my information, there are two official languages English and French, with French being spoken mostly in Quebec.

So common sense dictates, language policies primarily accommodate Quebec because the English don't require any because of its wide common usage.

Québec has not been rewarded for not signing the contract. If anything they're being penalized, because they are the most segregated province.

They choose by their own hand to segregate themselves.

I'd like referenda on narcotics, abortion, marriage, immigration and immigrant integration, church and state, etc. Even in the most democratic countries you cannot get everything you want.

This is really getting silly as everything you quoted has nothing to do with our VERY IMPORTANT CONSTITUTION except perhaps marriage as it concerns 'freedom of religion' which is a protected right in our constitution and a very old traditon not only involving Canadians but the large majority of countries around the world.

Canadians have been denied their RIGHTFUL participation to amend our very own constitution, by a dreadful absence, of democratic rights concerning proper representation from our elected officials.

Understand what our BASIC constitutional rights are.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

This is not an advertised thing, but if you were a federal public service employee, you would certainly be aware of this. You can check yourself by contacting the NCC directly.

For instance virtually all federal buildings that house private business, restaurants etc., are forced by their lease to provide bilingual services.

There are many buildings in downtown Ottawa, in the Sparks Street area, that are owned by the NCC with leases that demand they provide bilingual services.

I will acknowledge your observation. However, nothing is wrong with this, because these restaurants and businesses etc. are choosing to rent these locations despite the conditions.

Malls and shops in the Orleans, Ontario not governed by this as these are commercial buildings, nothing to do with the NCC.

Orleans is in Ontario and there is no way anyone can FORCE that store to supply bilingual services, as Ontario has never declared itself officially supportive of the two FEDERAL official languages. If they wish to do so as a courtesy is there business.

But to point out this is a dangerous policy to hire bilingual clerks in a majority English province as it discriminates against the majority English in the way of obtaining English only employment.

This causes an English backlash as to not to shop in stores that do not support the majority English language. I know people who upon finding out if a certain store hires Francophone's to supply bilingual services, they will go out of their way to shop in an English only store.

There's no danger in hiring bilingual candidates in Ontario even if not required. It's not discriminating against the majority because Anglophones can be bilingual too.

I boycott a fair share of companies and organizations, but for reasons completely unrelated to language. No one is forcing Anglophones to shop where the place is managed by Francophones. However, these shops are not suffering a big loss by losing a few spiteful customers who are identified as belonging to the majority group. I'd get a good laugh if a spiteful Anglophone needs to tank up in the middle of the night and the only nearby gas station is an Ultramar with a Francophone manager. "Oh no, wouldn't want my cash to fall in the hands of a Canadian of the other domestic language!" Seriously, Francophones are people just like anyone else. There may be a few of them who scheme ways of making your life miserable, however most are just normal people with good intentions wanting to make a living.

Could you post that link, please rather than post unreliable information.

And if your numbers contradict my numbers, I will post my link.

I'll admit I over-estimated, but 15% is an underestimation.

Check out this link: http://www.spcottawa.on.ca/Documents/Repor...Final_Wards.pdf

It states 17.7% of Ottawa's entire population has French as a first language, but I like to include the people claiming Creole or Arabic as their first language yet speak more French than English as Francophones, so it's still most likely higher than 20%.

I think the federal government in Ottawa and its relationship with the official languages does enough damage in the way of undemocratic manoeuvres and representation concerning languages.

Ottawa is just a regular city like Gatineau supported by residential tax payers.

I find it totally discriminatory to penalize the tax payers of Ottawa in the way of supporting the official languages, in a federal sense, which is really not the concern of the tax payers of Ottawa.

I wouldn't consider a city with a bunch of embassies to be just any regular city. Ottawa is the capital and should reflect the federal official languages.

No 'damage' has been done as a result of municipal language policies. Adding French does not take away from English. Anglophones can still live comfortably in Ottawa, so there is no real problem (except for people like you who actually hate people of a certain group).

I am not making any exception to what I said.

French is spoken in Quebec.

But when you figure out majorities and minorities on a national bases, calculations must be based relating to ALL ten provinces.

This makes Quebec a small minority with its French language in Canada.

Yes, granted on a national basis this relates to all ten provinces and three territories.

However it is completely fine to state that French is the majority language of Québec, because a majority can be measured on a regional basis, not strictly on a national basis. That's why I argued earlier that French is the majority language of Québec.

Well, according to my information, there are two official languages English and French, with French being spoken mostly in Quebec.

So common sense dictates, language policies primarily accommodate Quebec because the English don't require any because of its wide common usage.

The English are in England. If you're refering to Anglophone Canadians, those living in Québec are benefiting from federal language policies, and in certain regions of Neu-Braunschweig aswell (not like they make much of a difference, there are so few people living in that province anyway). Québec does not benefit from language policies, because without language policies the federal government's operations in Québec would be completely done in French due to the fact that French is Québec's majority language. In other words, in any place where one's first language is the majority language, one will not gain directly from language policies. There are indirect benefits, though. Even though a Canadian will not benefit from service in their second domestic language, it supports the region's minority language speaking community who contribute towards the local culture.

They choose by their own hand to segregate themselves.

I know, but I don't think that they are benefiting from this segregation.

This is really getting silly as everything you quoted has nothing to do with our VERY IMPORTANT CONSTITUTION except perhaps marriage as it concerns 'freedom of religion' which is a protected right in our constitution and a very old traditon not only involving Canadians but the large majority of countries around the world.

Canadians have been denied their RIGHTFUL participation to amend our very own constitution, by a dreadful absence, of democratic rights concerning proper representation from our elected officials.

Understand what our BASIC constitutional rights are.

Really? When did the Canadians ask to amend the constitution?

[Leafless]

I will acknowledge your observation. However, nothing is wrong with this, because these restaurants and businesses etc. are choosing to rent these locations despite the conditions.

It isn't an observation, it is a fact.

It is also discriminatory by holding one hostage to language conditions that was never approved by the citizen's of Canada. These are independent business operators and not an employee of the federal government.

There's no danger in hiring bilingual candidates in Ontario even if not required. It's not discriminating against the majority because Anglophones can be bilingual too.

Looks like we are back to square one.

The point is the English majority don't have to be bilingual and NEVER did.

This all came about by federal government intervention with their language policies which led to the initiation of Ottawa's federal style bilingual policy, in turn down to private business catering to that bilingual policy.

This is NOT natural bilingualism. If it was, we would have thousands of Ottawa, Ontario vehicles flooding Gatineau Quebec every morning going to their jobs in Quebec private industry, attracted by good salaries which provide the initiative to learn French.

It is not the same thing when EVERY CANADIAN'S federal government is doing it with tax payers money.

Adding French does not take away from English. Anglophones can still live comfortably in Ottawa, so there is no real problem (except for people like you who actually hate people of a certain group).

I don't think your in the position to pass judgement on the residents of Ottawa.

I don't hate anyone.

I despise with venom, the federal government undemocratic policies, that have allowed this to happen.

Yes, granted on a national basis this relates to all ten provinces and three territories.

However it is completely fine to state that French is the majority language of Québec

In reality this means nothing.

What means something is the federal government allowing Quebec to break the conditions of the Charter.

If they won't sign the Charter or new constitution, then a national referendum should be held to confirm whether or not Canada wishes to retain Quebec in confederation.

Quebec does not benefit from language policies, because without language policies the federal government's operations in Québec would be completely done in French due to the fact that French is Québec's majority language. In other words, in any place where one's first language is the majority language, one will not gain directly from language policies.

That's the whole point.

Quebec's majority language, cannot maintain Quebec ideologies without federal assistance.

If they refuse to assimilate, its their business and they go down the tube.

Quebec gains directly with federal undemocratic language policies.

Really? When did the Canadians ask to amend the constitution?

They don't have to ask.

This is why Canada has a great democratic deficit.

Mp's and parliament are NOT abiding to and PROTECTING Canadians constitutional rights.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

It isn't an observation, it is a fact.

It is also discriminatory by holding one hostage to language conditions that was never approved by the citizen's of Canada. These are independent business operators and not an employee of the federal government.

If it were a fact, you could most likely provide me with a citation.

These businesses do not have to rent NCC-owned property. It's their choice.

Looks like we are back to square one.

The point is the English majority don't have to be bilingual and NEVER did.

This all came about by federal government intervention with their language policies which led to the initiation of Ottawa's federal style bilingual policy, in turn down to private business catering to that bilingual policy.

This is NOT natural bilingualism. If it was, we would have thousands of Ottawa, Ontario vehicles flooding Gatineau Quebec every morning going to their jobs in Quebec private industry, attracted by good salaries which provide the initiative to learn French.

It is not the same thing when EVERY CANADIAN'S federal government is doing it with tax payers money.

No one has to learn any language. There are more and better paying jobs in Ottawa than Gatineau, that's why so many cross one way and so few cross the other way on their way to work. The gov't is the employer in Ottawa. Aside the public sector, there are a fair amount of jobs in IT, otherwise there's not much of a private industry in Ottawa. Gatineau is fairly small and very residential. There's not much of an interest in expanding Gatineau's private sector.

It would be unjust to tax certain people higher than other Canadians based on demography. Canadian tax payers often pay into things that benefit a minority of people. That's why everybody pays for it.

I don't think your in the position to pass judgement on the residents of Ottawa.

I don't hate anyone.

I despise with venom, the federal government undemocratic policies, that have allowed this to happen.

Sure I can. Service in English is not being compermised by offering service in French, therefore not compermising the Anglophones' comfort in Ottawa.

In that case there's nothing wrong with a high representation of a people of a certain region of Canada because they're just like any other Canadian.

That's the whole point.

Quebec's majority language, cannot maintain Quebec ideologies without federal assistance.

If they refuse to assimilate, its their business and they go down the tube.

Quebec gains directly with federal undemocratic language policies.

What are Québec's ideologies? A language cannot maintain ideologies with nor without federal intervention. That's a ridiculous idea. Québec practically rules itself and doesn't have to assimilate into its neighboring cultures. They aren't falling apart because of it, though. They cannot gain from federal language policies because they only care that French be the majority language in their province (which they have achieved) and they couldn't care less about languages beyond their provincial borders. Even without language policies, the federal government would serve people in French in Québec anyway, so these language policies don't affect them. Such language policies mostly benefit certain minority groups like Anglophone Québécois and Franco-Ontarians.

They don't have to ask.

This is why Canada has a great democratic deficit.

Mp's and parliament are NOT abiding to and PROTECTING Canadians constitutional rights.

If you don't ask, you do not receive. If Canadians don't ask to amend the constitution, it won't happen.

[Leafless]

If it were a fact, you could most likely provide me with a citation.

I don't give you facts since you NEVER provide any. All you provide is your opinion.

You will still have to check with NCC concerning ACTUAL lease requirements.

http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/archives/sst_es/...baux_2004_e.htm

http://temagami.carleton.ca/jmc/cnews/13022004/feature.shtml

No one has to learn any language. There are more and better paying jobs in Ottawa than Gatineau, that's why so many cross one way and so few cross the other way on their way to work.

No kidding.

Proves again Quebec can't look after its flock and WHY there is no natural bilingualism.

I guess this proves French is a dead language and you have to raid cities in Ontario for employment.

Service in English is not being compermised by offering service in French, therefore not compermising the Anglophones' comfort in Ottawa.

English speaking jobs in Ottawa are being taken away by discriminatory federal and Ottawa bilingual policies by bilingual Francophone's who must be bilingual if they want to work in English anyways.

It is NOT a two way street.

Majority English residents are being screwed by these discriminatory policies in their own majority English city.

Go and play the language game in Quebec, where they love culture.

Better still go over to Quebec and preach your love for bilingualism over there.

What are Québec's ideologies?

Culture, language, culture, language, culture, language, culture, language, culture, etc., etc, etc.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

I don't give you facts since you NEVER provide any. All you provide is your opinion.

You will still have to check with NCC concerning ACTUAL lease requirements.

http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/archives/sst_es/...baux_2004_e.htm

http://temagami.carleton.ca/jmc/cnews/13022004/feature.shtml

Thanks for the citations. It makes sense that the NCC demand bilingualism from those renting their space. No one is forcing them to choose that property to run their business.

No kidding.

Proves again Quebec can't look after its flock and WHY there is no natural bilingualism.

I guess this proves French is a dead language and you have to raid cities in Ontario for employment.

You seem to relate the most irrelevant things to eachother. Location has nothing to do with language in this case. People from the maritimes and Newfoundland move to Ontario (and in some cases Alberta) because of the lack of work in their respective provinces. Does that mean that English is a dead language in the maritimes?

Seriously, people living in Gatineau (which many are Ontarians looking for cheaper rent) work in Ottawa because that's where the work's at. Sure there's work in Montréal and Québec City, but Ottawa's a shorter commute.

There is natural bilingualism because there are people justifying the demand for two languages.

English speaking jobs in Ottawa are being taken away by discriminatory federal and Ottawa bilingual policies by bilingual Francophone's who must be bilingual if they want to work in English anyways.

It is NOT a two way street.

Majority English residents are being screwed by these discriminatory policies in their own majority English city.

Go and play the language game in Quebec, where they love culture.

Better still go over to Quebec and preach your love for bilingualism over there.

I tell Canadians of both languages that I think bilingualism should be required accross the country and I get roughly the same rate of people agreeing/disagreeing with me on both sides. Telling the Québécois that I value bilingualism wouldn't be as effective because the gov't is in Ottawa. Also I have no interest in moving to Québec because I enjoy Ottawa's bilingualism allowing me to work in two languages, have friends on both sides and get faster service than my monolingual neighbors because I can be served in whichever langauge provides a shorter waiting time since service in both languages is guaranteed in Ottawa.

Monolingual Anglophones are being screwed because they refuse to pick up a skill that is available at tax payers' expense. Learning one's second Canadian language is now so widely available in Ottawa and children are taught both languages at school, therefore no one has a valid excuse for not being bilingual. It's been prety obvious in the last decade or so that more and more jobs in Ottawa would be requiring bilingualism, I would have figured that everyone would have seen it coming.

Culture, language, culture, language, culture, language, culture, language, culture, etc., etc, etc.

Québec is maintaining these things without government assistance, whereas English Canadian culture would be almost completely inexistant had it not been for the CanCon law and the government subsidizing culture. English Canadians benefit more from laws concerning national media content and subsidies towards Canadian culture than French Canadians because without it, pretty much all music... etc. produced by Canadian artists never moving to the USA would be in French.

[BornAlbertan]

Co-worker had called a gov't office in Ottawa today...transferred her to someone else because i guess fluidity is not at all considered to be part of fluency. My co-worker apparantly spoke "too fast"...and she is not a fast talker (she is a former radio news announcer).

[Leafless]

You seem to relate the most irrelevant things to eachother. Location has nothing to do with language in this case. People from the maritimes and Newfoundland move to Ontario (and in some cases Alberta) because of the lack of work in their respective provinces. Does that mean that English is a dead language in the maritimes?

Maritimes and Newfoundland do not try to take over other provinces economy with their language. They all speak English.

English (outside of Quebec) is the MOST popular majority language of all Canada including Alberta, Newfoundland and the Maritimes.

English will NEVER be dead in Canada. The only thing dead is your brain, not to recognize that fact.

I realize this is hard for you to do when you are a bilingualism crusade.

I tell Canadians of both languages that I think bilingualism should be required accross the country and I get roughly the same rate of people agreeing/disagreeing with me on both sides. Telling the Québécois that I value bilingualism wouldn't be as effective because the gov't is in Ottawa. Also I have no interest in moving to Québec because I enjoy Ottawa's bilingualism allowing me to work in two languages, have friends on both sides and get faster service than my monolingual neighbors because I can be served in whichever langauge provides a shorter waiting time since service in both languages is guaranteed in Ottawa.

Good for you.

Monolingual Anglophones are being screwed because they refuse to pick up a skill that is available at tax payers' expense. Learning one's second Canadian language is now so widely available in Ottawa and children are taught both languages at school, therefore no one has a valid excuse for not being bilingual. It's been prety obvious in the last decade or so that more and more jobs in Ottawa would be requiring bilingualism, I would have figured that everyone would have seen it coming.

You still don't understand that you can not force Canadians to learn a dead language or unwanted language.

What the federal government is doing and even the City of Ottawa with undemocratic bilingual policies is denying English speaking Canadians their constitutional rights by not being part of the process that initially established these undemocratic bilingual policies.

Québec is maintaining these things without government assistance

And that is the way it should be.

If they want to work for private industry, outside of Quebec, anywhere in the country, one must be able to learn and speak English.

English Canadian culture would be almost completely inexistant had it not been for the CanCon law and the government subsidizing culture.

Most radio stations, cable and satellite hate CanCon, as it FORCES ( a la communism) these companies to force Canadians to watch 35% of second and third rate Canadian entertainment.

This is what they told me when I called my radio and cable company to complain about inferior Canadian programming.

[jbg]

But there are quite a few states that are designated 'officially English' being:Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming.

Good Gollie! The world's greatest democracy has states that have the equivalent of Québec's Law 101? Are the U.S. getting to be as racist as Québec?

The US First Amendment prevents a Bill 101.

[Hydraboss]

Québec is maintaining these things without government assistance,

Let's get real for a moment. Kwebek couldn't shop at Wal-Mart without government assistance. Try going twelve months without equalization, and then feel free to talk about "without government assistance". Kwebek has been a kept province since the beginning of time, and the way it is treated by the fed's it always will be.

Kick them the hell out of Canada, and see whether they want to maintain their "holier than thou" attitude. Just for the record, when someone is anti-Kwebek, they are usually anti-billingual and vice versa. Canadians in general have had enough of this spoiled brat syndrome and more than enough of this shove-it-down-your-throat dual language BS. This country is not billingual, only one province is. And barely at that.

There is absolutely no need for a second (dead) language in this country. The argument that "we need to be billingual because the federal language policies say so" goes hand in hand with "we need federal language policies because we're billingual". It's a circular argument that has no reasoning behind it. It's simply a "let's make a rule, because we need more rules" ploy.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Maritimes and Newfoundland do not try to take over other provinces economy with their language. They all speak English.

English (outside of Quebec) is the MOST popular majority language of all Canada including Alberta, Newfoundland and the Maritimes.

English will NEVER be dead in Canada. The only thing dead is your brain, not to recognize that fact.

I realize this is hard for you to do when you are a bilingualism crusade.

I was pointing out your silliness for associating the livelihood of a language with regional industry, which are completely unrelated.

If people from the maritimes and Newfoundland achieve employment in Ottawa, they are taking jobs that could be staffed with Ottawans, so it's the same.

Québécois wanting to work in Ottawa need English for most jobs so there's really no difference. Those who can't speak English can't easily cross the river for work. If anything Canadians from other RoC provinces have an easier time stealing jobs from Ontarians than the Québécois do, because they already speak English (at the exception of a few Acadians and a couple other Canadians).

You still don't understand that you can not force Canadians to learn a dead language or unwanted language.

What the federal government is doing and even the City of Ottawa with undemocratic bilingual policies is denying English speaking Canadians their constitutional rights by not being part of the process that initially established these undemocratic bilingual policies.

You can't force anyone to learn any language. No rights are being denied, because no one has any rights to a given job position; it's a privilege. If bilingualism is required, then anyone who is bilingual can achieve the job. No qualified person will be denied the job based on qualifications, therefore no rights are infringed.

And that is the way it should be.

If they want to work for private industry, outside of Quebec, anywhere in the country, one must be able to learn and speak English.

Essentially, yes. However, anyone wanting to represent the government of a country of two languages should be fluent in both languages.

Most radio stations, cable and satellite hate CanCon, as it FORCES ( a la communism) these companies to force Canadians to watch 35% of second and third rate Canadian entertainment.

This is what they told me when I called my radio and cable company to complain about inferior Canadian programming.

I hate the CanCon law and I am plenty aware of it. It's minimum is 35% CanCon for all CRTC licenced media with few exceptions (such as religious broadcasting and possibly a couple others, they're only required 10% if I recall correctly). It's the only thing keeping English Canadian culture alive, a dying culture, because most English Canadians would prefer to be assimilated into American culture.

The US First Amendment prevents a Bill 101.

That much is true. The USA would never let freedom of speech be compromised with the exception of child pornography and maybe hate literature. It also pretty much guarantees the right to minorities to use whichever language they choose (provided they be understood).

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Québec is maintaining these things without government assistance,

Let's get real for a moment. Kwebek couldn't shop at Wal-Mart without government assistance. Try going twelve months without equalization, and then feel free to talk about "without government assistance". Kwebek has been a kept province since the beginning of time, and the way it is treated by the fed's it always will be.

Kick them the hell out of Canada, and see whether they want to maintain their "holier than thou" attitude. Just for the record, when someone is anti-Kwebek, they are usually anti-billingual and vice versa. Canadians in general have had enough of this spoiled brat syndrome and more than enough of this shove-it-down-your-throat dual language BS. This country is not billingual, only one province is. And barely at that.

There is absolutely no need for a second (dead) language in this country. The argument that "we need to be billingual because the federal language policies say so" goes hand in hand with "we need federal language policies because we're billingual". It's a circular argument that has no reasoning behind it. It's simply a "let's make a rule, because we need more rules" ploy.

"These things" were were discussing were "Québec's ideologies, being language and culture. Equalization is a seperate issue. I'd also be glad to do without equalization, but that would penalize all provinces beyond Ontario and Alberta. The only reason why Québec is so often mentioned when equalization is discussed is because it's the only province with almost a third of Canada's population falling under the equalization line, meaning they receive funding rather than pay into it. Much of this money is wasted on silly things like public day cares. I'll gladly agree that Québec mismanages its funds and should opt for less socialism, yet has nothing to do with language.

It's unfortunate that so many people would be anti-Québec and/or anti-bilingualism. I can understand not liking Québec's infrastructure, but how can you hate a place if you've never been? Even if you have been, unless you move there and get involved, there's nothing you can do to change their infrastructure. I can understand being frustrated by bilingualism if one is a recent immigrant to Canada, ends up in Ottawa and then finds out that they should have learned both Canadian languages in order to optimize opportunities in the job market, but otherwise anyone should be able to anticipate if they need bilingualism or not. Anyone considering working for the federal gov't or in certain positions in Ottawa's private sector should achieve their second Canadian language before completing their studies.

About Wal-Mart, they could shop at Wal-Mart easily until the unions revolted. I'm not a big fan of Québec's infrastructure either, but there's no reason for hating the people there just because they subject themselves to bureaucracy.

[Leafless]

I was pointing out your silliness for associating the livelihood of a language with regional industry, which are completely unrelated.

That association is related in the case of Quebec.

This is the reason for all the forced undemocratic bilingual policies, federal and municipal.

If people from the maritime and Newfoundland achieve employment in Ottawa, they are taking jobs that could be staffed with Ottawans, so it's the same.

Again, they are not trying to steal jobs by trying to force a government sponsored minority language to take these jobs.

Newfoundlanders are competing fair and square for jobs out of the province of Quebec, in the majority English language.

Québécois wanting to work in Ottawa need English for most jobs so there's really no difference.

No problem there, as Ontario does not protect jobs according to a persons mother tongue like in Quebec.

It is interesting, you being from Ontario would use the controversial word "Quebecois", rather than the word what most English speaking people use to describe people from Quebec, which is plain 'Quebecers'. Another give away you are a Quebec French nationalist.

You can't force anyone to learn any language. No rights are being denied, because no one has any rights to a given job position; it's a privilege.

A job is not a privilege, it is a paid position for employment.

If bilingualism is required, then anyone who is bilingual can achieve the job.

There is no need no official need for bilingualism in Canada because the provinces are not designated 'officially bilingual' outside of New Brunswick.

New Brunswick is Canada's only officially bilingual province. The reason for this is that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms specifically recognizes that anglophones and francophone's in New Brunswick have equality of status and equal rights and privileges.

If companies or government are advertising for bilingual (English-French) people, when that province is not 'officially designated bilingual' then they are in violation of the constitutional rights of majority English speaking Canadians.

This is why forced bilingualism policies ( federal and municipal) are so discriminatory, since they MIMICK the province as being designated as 'officially bilingual' when that is NOT the case.

[BornAlbertan]

When are they going to realize the international language of business is ENGLISH.

rien bon ne se produit jamais en français!!

[cosette]

I don't understand why it is such a big problem. The federal capital should be an example for the rest of Canada.

Gatineau still remains a french-only city but you will have a hard time to find somewhere where they can't serve you in english, almost everyone is billingual in Quebec.

I still can't understand why english people can't learn another language. In Quebec, we learn english from the first year of primary school till the end of college. In the first year of secondary, we add a third language and sometimes, in college, we add a fourth one. In the ROC, you learn some basic french for 3 or 4 years and then, you lose it in the summer.

It is a sad reality. Being able to speak in the language of your business clients is a factor between having a contract or not. It is a mark of respect.

[guyser]

I don't understand why it is such a big problem. The federal capital should be an example for the rest of Canada.

Look deeper, and ignore the language.

I still can't understand why english people can't learn another language. In Quebec, we learn english from the first year of primary school till the end of college. In the first year of secondary, we add a third language and sometimes, in college, we add a fourth one. In the ROC, you learn some basic french for 3 or 4 years and then, you lose it in the summer.

True and I wish I took more of it and learned it mych better. Or rather, learned it at all. I can read some, but talk very very little.

When you think about it, at almost 40% of Eng is derived from French, why the vitriol.

[Leafless]

I don't understand why it is such a big problem. The federal capital should be an example for the rest of Canada.

Ottawa is the Capital City of Canada.

It is a city like all other cities in Canada and supported by residents of Ottawa tax dollars.

The federal presence in Ottawa and for that matter in unilingual French, Gatineau, Quebec and does make itself known with its discriminary 'official bilingualism' hiring practices.

Gatineau still remains a french-only city but you will have a hard time to find somewhere where they can't serve you in English, almost everyone is billingual in Quebec.

Do you really think Gatineau residents learned English for the benefit of unity and English speaking Canadians or rather for their own self interest and preservation, basically to obtain employment in English speaking jobs.

I still can't understand why english people can't learn another language. In Quebec, we learn english from the first year of primary school till the end of college. In the first year of secondary, we add a third language and sometimes, in college, we add a fourth one. In the ROC, you learn some basic french for 3 or 4 years and then, you lose it in the summer.

Learning languages is a personal thing based on priorities.

Canada is not Europe being a consortium of small countries incorporating different languages where it could be beneficial if one chooses to learn one or several languages for personal and economic reasons.

In Canada the majority speak the English language, the same language of the ONLY country on its borders that stretches from sea to sea being the U.S. This nullifies any real reason to learn other languages a non issue for most Canadians as all or most economic benefits are based on the (no hassle) English language.

It is a sad reality. Being able to speak in the language of your business clients is a factor between having a contract or not. It is a mark of respect.

I don't know how you can confuse 'the quest for money' and 'respect' as being related.

[jbg]

I don't understand why it is such a big problem. The federal capital should be an example for the rest of Canada.

Because ridiculous labeling and sign laws drastically increase the cost of doing business and so lower living standards. A Tower of Babel does not operate as efficiently as a unilingual society.

[Pat Coghlan]

You can't force anyone to learn any language. No rights are being denied, because no one has any rights to a given job position; it's a privilege. If bilingualism is required, then anyone who is bilingual can achieve the job. No qualified person will be denied the job based on qualifications, therefore no rights are infringed.

And that is the way it should be.

Lots of public servants are being forced to learn another language - if they want to keep their jobs.

Something like 80% of Ottawa public servants who complete language training go right back to using just English at work. Ditto for their counterparts in Montreal (who use French at work).

How is this cost and loss of productivity benefitting Canadian taxpayers???

[Charles Anthony]

How is this cost and loss of productivity benefitting Canadian taxpayers???

It keeps government French language teachers employed.

[Argus]

I don't understand why it is such a big problem. The federal capital should be an example for the rest of Canada.

Gatineau still remains a french-only city but you will have a hard time to find somewhere where they can't serve you in english, almost everyone is billingual in Quebec.

Actually, the rate of self-reported bilingualism (statistics canada conducts no tests, merely asks in their questionnaire if people consider themselves bilingual) shows that about forty percent of Quebecers report themselves to be bilingual. That is quite some distance from "almost everyone". And it is merely self-reporting. From my experience at least 80% of those who think they are bilingual would fall well short of the standards required in federal language tests.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

It is interesting, you being from Ontario would use the controversial word "Quebecois", rather than the word what most English speaking people use to describe people from Quebec, which is plain 'Quebecers'. Another give away you are a Quebec French nationalist.

Last time I looked, I found 'Québécois' in my American English dictionary at home (and it can also be found writen that way in WordWeb). It looks better than 'Quebecer', nothing to do with nationalism (I don't like Québec... it's not bad a place for a summer cottage but I'd never live there).

A job is not a privilege, it is a paid position for employment.

A job is a privilege. As I recall, it must be earned through a hiring process. No one is obliged to hire any given candidate.

Nationals have a right to work, but any given paid position is a privilege. Monolinguals don't have a right to federal positions, therefore no rights are denied.

If companies or government are advertising for bilingual (English-French) people, when that province is not 'officially designated bilingual' then they are in violation of the constitutional rights of majority English speaking Canadians.

This is why forced bilingualism policies ( federal and municipal) are so discriminatory, since they MIMICK the province as being designated as 'officially bilingual' when that is NOT the case.

This is clearly not the case for the federal gov't because the feds to not pertain to any province.

For municipal gov't, I wish Ottawa would become a City-State and not pertain to any province either, but that would mean Gatineau would be part of this NRC city-state and without Gatineau, Québec's percentage of pro-seperation residents may rise high enough to cause seperation if another referendum comes along. Because Ottawa won't become a city-state, it might as well have certain distinction being the capital of a country of two languages. It's not quite just like any city.

When are they going to realize the international language of business is ENGLISH.

rien bon ne se produit jamais en français!

When are they going to realize that international and national languages are independant from eachother?

Ottawa is the Capital City of Canada.

It is a city like all other cities in Canada and supported by residents of Ottawa tax dollars.

The federal presence in Ottawa and for that matter in unilingual French, Gatineau, Quebec and does make itself known with its discriminary 'official bilingualism' hiring practices.

Ottawa is quite different from other Canadian cities. The biggest employer in town is the federal gov't, and is paying salary to Ottawans using tax money collected from all Canadians. Canada could have its federal offices located anywhere, but it makes sense that they staff their offices with bilingual employees. Montréal is in Québec so that would make a controversial location for federal gov't offices and Cornwall is too small.

Do you really think Gatineau residents learned English for the benefit of unity and English speaking Canadians or rather for their own self interest and preservation, basically to obtain employment in English speaking jobs.

The Québécois don't care about other provinces, regardless of other Canadians' first language. I also don't care much about their province... what they do within their borders doesn't phase me. Makes sense that Francophones in Gatineau learn enough English to work in Ottawa. Isn't that what you want... that Francophones learn enough English to speak to you in your language?

Learning languages is a personal thing based on priorities.

Canada is not Europe being a consortium of small countries incorporating different languages where it could be beneficial if one chooses to learn one or several languages for personal and economic reasons.

In Canada the majority speak the English language, the same language of the ONLY country on its borders that stretches from sea to sea being the U.S. This nullifies any real reason to learn other languages a non issue for most Canadians as all or most economic benefits are based on the (no hassle) English language.

I agree, those prioritizing languages could learn three to God knows how many languages. It's still important to know domestic languages. If Canada did not have any common language with the USA, I'd recommend learning our neighbors' language. Because that's not an issue, Canadians can focus on their second Canadian language.

I don't know how you can confuse 'the quest for money' and 'respect' as being related.

In this case, you're more likely to close a deal if you speak your client's language. Not sure what this has to do with respect, but money is everyone's favorite language.

Because ridiculous labeling and sign laws drastically increase the cost of doing business and so lower living standards. A Tower of Babel does not operate as efficiently as a unilingual society.

Granted, but it's not a tower of Babel when both languages used are taught to all Canadians. Although the leading world economies are monolingual, it's not because of language but rather other factors like population and industry sectors.

Lots of public servants are being forced to learn another language - if they want to keep their jobs.

Something like 80% of Ottawa public servants who complete language training go right back to using just English at work. Ditto for their counterparts in Montreal (who use French at work).

How is this cost and loss of productivity benefitting Canadian taxpayers???

Public servants, like anyone else, do not have a right to their positions. It's a privilege, which can be granted or taken away like any other. Those representing a country of two languages should know both languages, and a lot of the federal gov't work should be outsourced anyway. Same goes for Ottawa's municiple gov't.

Actually, the rate of self-reported bilingualism (statistics canada conducts no tests, merely asks in their questionnaire if people consider themselves bilingual) shows that about forty percent of Quebecers report themselves to be bilingual. That is quite some distance from "almost everyone". And it is merely self-reporting. From my experience at least 80% of those who think they are bilingual would fall well short of the standards required in federal language tests.

I'll second that. The actual rate of bilingual Canadians is pretty low regardless of first language. One cannot assume that Francophones in Québec and Neu-Braunschweig speak English and one cannot assume that Anglophones outside Québec speak French, which is a good enough reason for having two languages in Parliament.

[Leafless]

Last time I looked, I found 'Québécois' in my American English dictionary at home (and it can also be found writen that way in WordWeb). It looks better than 'Quebecer', nothing to do with nationalism (I don't like Québec... it's not bad a place for a summer cottage but I'd never live there).

That is what the problem is when you refer to 'Quebecers' as 'Quebecois', as it adds a political dimension and as a result, does NOT identify ALL residents of Quebec appropriately.

Nationals have a right to work, but any given paid position is a privilege. Monolinguals don't have a right to federal positions, therefore no rights are denied.

You are purposely confusing the association of a 'federal official language' to that of a commonly spoken national language. The TWO are not related. English 'nationally' speaking, is the majority language of all provinces excluding 'officially French province of Quebec' and 'officially bilngual' province of New Brunswick

Regardless I fail to see your point as primarily there are monolingual federal public servants and you are magnifying (again) the racial discriminatory self imposed hiring conditions of the federal public service.

This is clearly not the case for the federal gov't because the feds to not pertain to any province.

If that is the case why has the federal government 'unilaterally' made French an 'official language'.

It is obvious warring federal parties continue to corrupt the political system in favour, in the case of Quebec an ongoing linguistic war.

This is one politically dysfunctional country at a HUGE undemocratic and financial expense.

Ottawa is quite different from other Canadian cities. The biggest employer in town is the federal gov't, and is paying salary to Ottawans using tax money collected from all Canadians.

During the Jean Chretien era as PM, he incorporated a 'decentralization program' thus moving federal departments to other provinces.

Quebec gained more than any other province in Canada from this decentralization program.

Furthermore are you unable to accept the plain common sense logic that Ottawa being the capital of Canada, naturally would be supplying local Ottawa residents the bulk of federal employment.

I agree, those prioritizing languages could learn three to God knows how many languages. It's still important to know domestic languages. If Canada did not have any common language with the USA, I'd recommend learning our neighbors' language. Because that's not an issue, Canadians can focus on their second Canadian language.

You are making learning the French language a compulsory issue again when that is not the case.

The federal government nor anyone else can force Canadians to speak French. The feds are already discriminating enough in that area.