Tories buying support and votes

[hiti]

No more slagging Paul Martin's government for whatever, since this "new" government is the same old, maybe even worse in it's hunger for absolute power.

Quote $30M seals NDP, Tories pact

A strange and risky unofficial political alliance between the NDP and the Harper government on the environment has been bolstered by a $30-million federal contribution two weeks ago to a rainforest in the British Columbia riding of the NDP environment critic, the Toronto Star has learned.

The government has been heavily criticized since presenting its environmental legislation last fall.

Before consenting to anything, sources in B.C. and Ottawa said, Layton told Baird he wanted to see a sign of good faith showing the Conservatives were actually committed to the environment, and not just trying to save their minority government from defeat.

"That absolutely happened," said one source. "It was one of many, many components that helped get them over the top on this." -end quote

Naturally NDP environment critic Nathan Cullen denies there is a deal. But the study by the previous Liberal government languished for almost a year and would still be gathering dust if Steve didn't need Jack's votes.

[Keepitsimple]

As the article says - this had been in the works for the last 6 years and BC had put aside funding last February. This is a worthy investment that had been langusihing (the article says) for some time. The timing could be construed as suspect but was this a good investment, or not? I think it was - and if politics pushed the decision - who really cares? We had years of the Liberals SAYING they were committed the environment, but did nothing. Now we have a government who the media and "activists" say is NOT committed to the environment and we have some action. Things are starting to get done and I don't care if they are motivated by politics.

Now having said that, I acknowledge that the Conservatives should not be in power. It's not fair damn it - this is a Liberal country. If Liberals were back in power, decisions would not be made because of politics - they would simply do the right thing. Liberals truly care about the environment. They care about us - they know what's best for us. I miss them so much. OK, OK, I'm being a little facetious.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Very funny.

When Harper does something that is clearly in the best interest of Canadians and goes to prove what a lie *scary* *scary* *scary* is, does he get any credit?

Nope, of course not.

All he gets is accused of buying votes. And the angry left then tells us how we can behave. We aren't *allowed* to say anything bad about PM Dithers because Hiti told us.

[hiti]

Hey, if Steve is implementing all those Liberal programs cause he cares so much for Canada and the environment........ great. So why are "sources" saying the funding to the rain forest was released cause it was a bribe for Jacko's support?

And the Liberals could not have implemented the recommendations in the report that "they asked" for cause it wasn't delivered to the government until last March. Steve already was the "new" government.

Repeating the mantra that Liberals did nothing about the environment (KYOTO) does not make it true.

Project Green

Reviews a Year of Environmental Progress

The Climate Change conference in Montreal

Why Dion's plan would have reached the Kyoto targets if Steve did not cancel all programs.

That is a whole lot of nothings. Nothings that Steve is now tweaking and implementing as his own using different names, but eliminating any monies to help lower income Canadians refit their homes. Good that Dion did all the heavy lifting so Steve could look good.

[Keepitsimple]

Hey, if Steve is implementing all those Liberal programs cause he cares so much for Canada and the environment........ great. So why are "sources" saying the funding to the rain forest was released cause it was a bribe for Jacko's support?

And the Liberals could not have implemented the recommendations in the report that "they asked" for cause it wasn't delivered to the government until last March. Steve already was the "new" government.

Repeating the mantra that Liberals did nothing about the environment (KYOTO) does not make it true.

Project Green

Reviews a Year of Environmental Progress

The Climate Change conference in Montreal

Why Dion's plan would have reached the Kyoto targets if Steve did not cancel all programs.

That is a whole lot of nothings. Nothings that Steve is now tweaking and implementing as his own using different names, but eliminating any monies to help lower income Canadians refit their homes. Good that Dion did all the heavy lifting so Steve could look good.

Perhaps some of us should rephrase our criticsms and instead of saying they did nothing - we should say they were ineffective. It really doesn't matter. The point is that the Liberals did a lot of talking, a lot of consulting, a lot of conferences, bold planning... but they didn't take any real concrete action - the BC rain forest is a prime example - 6 years. They just didn't get the job done on a variety of issues. It's really the Chretien approach - tell them what they want to hear but we'll do whatever we want. I think Martin might have tried to fix things but he was just couldn't make a decision - wanted to please all of the people all of the time, so for very different reasons, he did nothing. As for Dion, there's a reason that Canadians know nothing about this guy - he was in the government for 10 years and he was viewed as a little nerd - and because he didn't have the leadership skills - he never tried to be anything more. He fell into the leadership role by accident. I hope they do better next time because Canada needs a strong and effective opposition.

[Ricki Bobbi]

That is a whole lot of nothings. Nothings that Steve is now tweaking and implementing as his own using different names, but eliminating any monies to help lower income Canadians refit their homes. Good that Dion did all the heavy lifting so Steve could look good.

Pat Stéphanie on the back all you want.

You sound like all the old school Reformers whining about Chrétien co-opting all their good ideas. Didn't Chrétien end up winning three straight majorities?

Hey, if co-opting the better parts of your opponent's platform is the path to a majority then it looks like the Conservatives are well on their way...

[Saturn]

The NDP are a bunch of wusses - they are shitting in their pants that if an election is called in the next few months, they will get 2 seats. However, I'm not sure that the NDP are the one's that are pushing this "alliance". We all know that if the NDP vote collapses, the Conservatives will be toast. So they want to give the NDP as much ammunition as possible to stop the leak of NDP votes to the Liberals. I'm not sure it will work but it's Mr. Harper's own fault that the leak is happening in the first place.

[Alexandra]

why are "sources" saying the funding to the rain forest was released cause it was a bribe for Jacko's support?

So, Hiti. Sources? Who are the TO Star's sources?

Obviously you failed to note that over $90Million has been raised, $60Million of which is PRIVATE funding by B.C.'ers, for the Spirit Bear park. The fact that the Feds had dithered for 5 years or more whether to conduct more studies in order to decide whether or not they (Feds) would contribute anything to the Spirit Bear park is something Steve Dion and company should be very embarrassed about. To offer $30Million is chintzy to say the least. It's the Environment Stupid!

Implying Layton's payoff is $30Million for Spirit Bear is really very silly. To suggest Jack Layton and the NDP could be bought off for $30Million by this government suggests Layton's NDP'ers have drastically lowered their price from the bribe they sought under the former government; Was it $4B or 6$Billion?

Really Hiti, take a trip back to your old haunt to find you will be back among friends. Most of the FD'ers literally loathe Harper and Co. They don't even like your pal, Stockwell.

[Catchme]

why are "sources" saying the funding to the rain forest was released cause it was a bribe for Jacko's support?

So, Hiti. Obviously you failed to note that over $90Million has been raised, $60Million of which is PRIVATE funding by B.C.'ers, for the Spirit Bear park...To offer $30Million is chintzy to say the least. It's the Environment Stupid!

Implying Layton's payoff is $30Million for Spirit Bear is really very silly. To suggest Jack Layton and the NDP could be bought off for $30Million by this government suggests Layton's NDP'ers have drastically lowered their price from the bribe they sought under the former government; Was it $4B or 6$Billion?

First the sources, nor the Star reported it as a bribe! It was reported that Jack said prove to me your interested in the environment, and then let's see where we can go from there.

Usually, I agree with Hiti on a good many things except her fascination with everything Stockwell. Not this time, she biased this erroneously, and is willing to play politics with the environment. Shameful.

The NDP are the only party with actual bona fide Green credentials, and their commitment to the environment cannot be bought. In fact, I would say that their willingness to work with the CPC on this, shows exactly how committed to the environment they are. They are willing to sacrifice everything to bring in good environmental laws.

[geoffrey]

Hey, if co-opting the better parts of your opponent's platform is the path to a majority then it looks like the Conservatives are well on their way...

And well on the way to being Liberal v2.0.

[hiti]

The NDP are the only party with actual bona fide Green credentials, and their commitment to the environment cannot be bought. In fact, I would say that their willingness to work with the CPC on this, shows exactly how committed to the environment they are. They are willing to sacrifice everything to bring in good environmental laws.

When the Liberal government was signing Kyoto, meeting with industry and trying to come up with a plan to lower greenhouse gases, the NDP was not interested. As to the NDP commitment, it was bought by Steve releasing money to the BC rainforest that I am sure Steve had no intention of spending, even though this was another part of the Liberal budget monies that Steve silently canceled. The only reason the NDP is willing to work with the CPC on the environment is so they can say they wrote the government environment platform just as they pip about writing Paul Martin's budget.

The CPC Clean Air Act was so bad it should have been shot. But Jack saw a way to make politics so now he's making politics, not policy. Cause the policy already exists on the books under other acts.

According to the polls, the party with bona fide green credentials is the Green Party. Next is Liberal. The NDP are becoming irrelevant in the debate and they will not be able to ask liberals to "borrow" their vote this next time.

Jack is becoming a joke. He is now a "conservative" whereas he use to "liberal" Bob Rae should run against Jack. LOL

[Catchme]

What polls Hiti say the Green party is the greenest party?

Not that polls by anyway mean anything in this regard in the first place. It is name recognition and nothing more. Also, I was speaking of was actual fact, not name recognition or propaganda. The NDP have always had the greenest stance,. In fact, the Green Party is not really even recognized around the world by other Green Parties in a formal way. The Green Party is a party of people taking a name to brand themselves, when they are not actually even close to what the brand means. It is a means to split the left vote and nothing more.

The Green Party are going no where in a slow hurry, Hiti. LOLOL Moreover, if they take any votes it willl be away from the CPC because that is who they are targeting to get more votes from, not the NDP or the LIberals, they know full well they got their max from them, andindeed are in danger of losing many of the ones they did get from the left.

Funny, you should make all these spurious comments after the resounding yes vote on the motion today, and Jack's strong comments against Harper's environmental policies. There is obviously no support from the NDP towards the CPC. Except in some peoples fantasies it appears.

Also, one does not even see the media go to the Green Party leader for info on environmental actions needed. The leader, and the Green Party are slipping right off the Canadian awareness scale.

[scribblet]

Now having said that, I acknowledge that the Conservatives should not be in power. It's not fair damn it - this is a Liberal country. If Liberals were back in power, decisions would not be made because of politics - they would simply do the right thing. Liberals truly care about the environment. They care about us - they know what's best for us. I miss them so much. OK, OK, I'm being a little facetious.

[margrace]

So what is new about this. Do you people ever read your history. How do you think we got health care. I think it was a minority government, not sure about that, who lifted the Original NDP partys agenda and brought in health care. This is how we get good government. But you selfcentred people never learn do you?

It seems rather short sighted of you all to forget that no matter what the Martin Government proposed while they were in a minority Harper opposed. His filibustering in parliment was monumental.

[scribblet]

So what is new about this. Do you people ever read your history. How do you think we got health care. I think it was a minority government, not sure about that, who lifted the Original NDP partys agenda and brought in health care. This is how we get good government. But you selfcentred people never learn do you?

It seems rather short sighted of you all to forget that no matter what the Martin Government proposed while they were in a minority Harper opposed. His filibustering in parliment was monumental.

Sure Margrace, maybe you should think about why Martin got the name Mr. Dithers; besides we short sighted ingrates didn't fall for Martin's monumental blather. And, if you hadn't notice, the Liberals are now monumentally opposing everything Harper does. btw 'free' health care today would not be a reality if Diefenbaker had not brought in equalization payments. Tommy Douglas could not afford to do it without help from other provinces.

Maybe we should get down and bow before the NDP and worship the alter of socialism where all people are equally poor - Not

[margrace]

Well maybe you should live on a part time job paying minimum wage for most of your life and you might appreciate any help you can get, be it NDP or anyone. Its easy for people who have earned over $40K a year most of their life. Why don't you try the other side for a while?

[Ricki Bobbi]

Well maybe you should live on a part time job paying minimum wage for most of your life and you might appreciate any help you can get, be it NDP or anyone. Its easy for people who have earned over $40K a year most of their life. Why don't you try the other side for a while?

So people should give up their jobs and work on minimum wage for the *experience*?

Why not try making a realistic suggestion?

[Saturn]

So people should give up their jobs and work on minimum wage for the *experience*?

Why not try making a realistic suggestion?

Why not come down to earth and realize that over a million Canadians work for minimum wage and the majority of them are parents raising kids and that they don't work any less hard than someone earning $100K. You don't need the "experience" to understand that they make a valuable contribution and that they deserve some respect. More respect than $15 billion in toys for the military does.

[scribblet]

Well maybe you should live on a part time job paying minimum wage for most of your life and you might appreciate any help you can get, be it NDP or anyone. Its easy for people who have earned over $40K a year most of their life. Why don't you try the other side for a while?

LOL I did work at a low paying job for the first few years, but went to night school and pulled myself up by my own bootstraps. Got me a much better paying job, eventually into management. Gee, and no handouts from the gov't.

You sound extremely bitter because you appear to have lived in poverty, and expect handouts. Just because you were not able to better yourself doesn't mean that others should have to live in the same manner. Its about lifting people up, not pushing them down to the same low levels.

[margrace]

No Scriblett I am not bitter. I worked hard, I supported my family with a part time job, a garden and growing my own food. I took nothing from the system until I had to retire. I am 72 this year, I still will have a garden. I too went back to school and got my certificate in my early 60's. However in the job I had this made no difference to the Municipal Leaders.

It is only hearing selfcentred generation X's like you who got everything given to them by my generation and are now gripping because they have to pay back a little.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Why not come down to earth and realize that over a million Canadians work for minimum wage and the majority of them are parents raising kids and that they don't work any less hard than someone earning $100K. You don't need the "experience" to understand that they make a valuable contribution and that they deserve some respect. More respect than $15 billion in toys for the military does.

Uhhh, so military spending is on *toys*?

Hmm, typical talk of respect except for an area you don't believe in.

[scribblet]

No Scriblett I am not bitter. I worked hard, I supported my family with a part time job, a garden and growing my own food. I took nothing from the system until I had to retire. I am 72 this year, I still will have a garden. I too went back to school and got my certificate in my early 60's. However in the job I had this made no difference to the Municipal Leaders.

It is only hearing selfcentred generation X's like you who got everything given to them by my generation and are now gripping because they have to pay back a little.

Except that I am the same generation as you, and had nothing given to me by anyone, I paid for it all myself - my parents were not financially able to do so - so that doesn't fly.

[margrace]

Ah so I have heard people of our generation complaining also. They were, of course, the ones that forced us to fight for pay equity, they were the ones who made sure that more people had to live on minimum wage.

I have nothing to complain about my life, I worked hard and found that I could outwork and still do people my own age. I do resent, however, being told that the system I paid into is now considered welfare. My children have done well for themselves and none of them complain as you and the younger ones on here do. I could not help them but they grew up with a strong work ethic. One is a professor at a prestigious univercity, two are nurses, two look after mentally challenged and metally ill people.

I volunteer in two organizations now, Palliative care and the local food bank.

I have nothing to be ashamed of.

[southerncomfort]

So why do you keep bitchin, same old same old Margrace always wanting others to pay for what you think is a right.