Legalising and Regulating Prostitution

Fortunata · January 26, 2007

Prostitution can never be considered legitimate a 'career choice' that some woman freely make. There was a recent story out of Germany where a woman was denied unemployment benefits because she refused to take a job as prostitute (under the rules any who refuse to take a job for which they were qualified is denied benefits). The rules were later changed - but the anecdote illustrates my point.

The German government said it was an overzealous employee and that no person would have to take up prostitution as a job. The woman got her unemployment. Really you should tell the whole story instead of just the part you need to make an erroneous point.

Riverwind · January 26, 2007

The German government said it was an overzealous employee and that no person would have to take up prostitution as a job. The woman got her unemployment. Really you should tell the whole story instead of just the part you need to make an erroneous point.

Your qualification does not change my point. Prostitution is not a simple career choice like any other. It comes with all sorts of emotional and social stigmas that will keep most women away unless they are driven by deperate circumstances of one form or another.

Fortunata · January 26, 2007

Prostitution is not a simple career choice like any other.

I don't disagree with that. Since biblical times, however, women are forced into prostitution for whatever reasons. It does not mean that legalizing and regulating would not help improve their lot over what it is now in Canada?

Riverwind · January 26, 2007

I don't disagree with that. Since biblical times, however, women are forced into prostitution for whatever reasons. It does not mean that legalizing and regulating would not help improve their lot over what it is now in Canada?

I am not comfortable with a society that officially sanctions an activity where men use their financial power to take advantage of desperate women. The are many ways to reach out to women in these circumstances that could reduce harm without legalizing the activity that causes the harm.

gc1765 · January 26, 2007

I am not comfortable with a society that officially sanctions an activity where men use their financial power to take advantage of desperate women.

I don't like the thought of women having to turn to prostitution either...but it's going to happen whether it's legal or not. While it may feel good to be part of a society that does not officially sanction prostutition, it won't make a difference in reality. At least legalizing it will make things safer for those women, and that is what is important. I am more comfortable in a soceity that sanctions prostitution and is relatively safe than I am with a society that does not sanction prositution but is more dangerous.

Slavik44 · January 26, 2007

I don't disagree with that. Since biblical times, however, women are forced into prostitution for whatever reasons. It does not mean that legalizing and regulating would not help improve their lot over what it is now in Canada?

I am not comfortable with a society that officially sanctions an activity where men use their financial power to take advantage of desperate women. The are many ways to reach out to women in these circumstances that could reduce harm without legalizing the activity that causes the harm.

Or maybe women are using their seductive power to financialy exploit desperate men, a quick search on the net shows that high end escorts run around $300/hour in vancouver...I mean really we can turn this any way we like. Men taking advantage of desperate women, desperate men being taken advantage of by greedy women. Hell whats pronography, people getting paid to have sex while on camera. You would be fooling yourself to believe that you don't already live in a society where sex, money, and power are highly related and in many cases sanctioned. I mean in the end if the guy walks away happy and the girl walks away happy, and such transactions continue to occur then thats business.

Or in the case of your ten cent hookers, they both walk away miserably depressed...which is just like any other low paying job, your boss hates you and you hate your boss...just slightly more extreme. Its a relationship of pure pathetic neccessity. The only way to change such a situation is to eliminate the neccessity. Which I suppose means we could get a Universal Public escort system. Which undoubtedly would fall victim to excessive waitlist times. In which case the other alternative is to bring prostitution under some form of government regulative control and at the same time offer the services to help the hookers get de-hooked if they are willing and if not atleast allow them to live better lives.

margrace · January 26, 2007

Sad to say a lot of missing and murdered women are native women. Now why is that? Some of you hot shots should have a good explanation?

BubberMiley · January 26, 2007

I am not comfortable with a society that officially sanctions an activity where men use their financial power to take advantage of desperate women. The are many ways to reach out to women in these circumstances that could reduce harm without legalizing the activity that causes the harm.

Is it an either/or situation, where either it's criminalized or it's sanctioned? I don't think adultery is officially sanctioned by the government, nor is it criminalized. The same with cigarette smoking.

scribblet · January 26, 2007

Prostitution is not a simple career choice like any other.

I don't disagree with that. Since biblical times, however, women are forced into prostitution for whatever reasons. It does not mean that legalizing and regulating would not help improve their lot over what it is now in Canada?

I don't see how it improve their circumstances either, although it should cut down on disease. (sheez wouldn't the thought of that make johns think twice)

Is there any data showing violence is decreased where prostitution is decriminalized or legalized and do we really need to dignify the sex industry?

jefferiah · January 26, 2007

Legalized Prostitution-----What a wonderful way for the Liberal Party to become glorified pimps?

That's a pretty silly thing to say. By that logic any political party that opposes legalising prostitution is complicit in the murder of the prostitutes every year. And don't even get me started with the murder of its citizens through selling cigarettes or alcohol.

No, you are not following that logic correctly at all. You are being being very "Liberal" with logic.

BubberMiley · January 26, 2007

do we really need to dignify the sex industry?

Is it really the function of criminal law to ascribe or take away the dignity of certain behaviour? I think it’s important that the purpose of the law remain to protect people from the actions of others, and nothing else. Criminalization of prostitution hurts regular people more than it helps them. With a black market system, it goes unregulated, allowing it to destroy neighbourhoods and victimize children.

Is it worth it to have child prostitutes on your street corner so that you can ensure the profession continues to be perceived as "undignified?" Not that selling your body would ever be considered dignified, no matter what the law says. Peeing your pants is considered undignified, and it's legal.

BC_chick · January 26, 2007

No, you are not following that logic correctly at all. You are being being very "Liberal" with logic.

Ah, you're one of those who thinks throwing the word Liberal out there is a rebuttal, I see.

Alright, then I ask directly:

Is it true that the government makes billions of dollars in taxing cigarettes and alcohol every year?

Is it true that cigarettes and alcohol kills thousands of people in Canada every year?

If so, is the government financially benefiting from selling legalised substances that kill many Canadians every year?

BC_chick · January 26, 2007

Is there any data showing violence is decreased where prostitution is decriminalized or legalized and do we really need to dignify the sex industry?

Yes, many. In fact there was a case cited earlier on this thread.

margrace · January 26, 2007

I just don't understand the arguments against this. If even one young life was saved because of this would it not be worth it or is life so cheap to some posters on here that they would deny that person life, just to continue the statis pro what ever that is to them.

Canadian Blue · January 26, 2007

I just don't understand the arguments against this. If even one young life was saved because of this would it not be worth it or is life so cheap to some posters on here that they would deny that person life, just to continue the statis pro what ever that is to them.

But then again, depending on how much energy and money we put towards this issue, we could save 10X more lives. I've heard the argument with relation to the gun registry, and I always thought that 1,000,000,000$ could probably save many more lives if spent on another area.

guyser · January 26, 2007

I just don't understand the arguments against this. If even one young life was saved because of this would it not be worth it or is life so cheap to some posters on here that they would deny that person life, just to continue the statis pro what ever that is to them.

Worth it? To whom?

We could bubble wrap our kids and that would save more than one life. But why dont we. Risk management.

Same way we get in a car everyday. Same way we let kids play around water everyday.

I dont buy the story that it is undignified as some suggest. They make the choice and some of them do not consider it a bad choice. Of course some do, some are forced (and that is criminal)

jefferiah · January 26, 2007

No, you are not following that logic correctly at all. You are being being very "Liberal" with logic.

Ah, you're one of those who thinks throwing the word Liberal out there is a rebuttal, I see.

Alright, then I ask directly:

Is it true that the government makes billions of dollars in taxing cigarettes and alcohol every year?

Is it true that cigarettes and alcohol kills thousands of people in Canada every year?

If so, is the government financially benefiting from selling legalised substances that kill many Canadians every year?

What government raised these taxes?

margrace · January 26, 2007

I just don't understand the arguments against this. If even one young life was saved because of this would it not be worth it or is life so cheap to some posters on here that they would deny that person life, just to continue the statis pro what ever that is to them.

But then again, depending on how much energy and money we put towards this issue, we could save 10X more lives. I've heard the argument with relation to the gun registry, and I always thought that 1,000,000,000$ could probably save many more lives if spent on another area.

So all right what do you propose instead of legalities? Lets hear some ideas.

margrace · January 26, 2007

I just don't understand the arguments against this. If even one young life was saved because of this would it not be worth it or is life so cheap to some posters on here that they would deny that person life, just to continue the statis pro what ever that is to them.

Worth it? To whom?

We could bubble wrap our kids and that would save more than one life. But why dont we. Risk management.

Same way we get in a car everyday. Same way we let kids play around water everyday.

I dont buy the story that it is undignified as some suggest. They make the choice and some of them do not consider it a bad choice. Of course some do, some are forced (and that is criminal)

So you admit some are forced, wouldn't legalizing it with protection help them. I have the feeling that the people who are against legalization have another agenda and it ain't freedom of choice.

Canadian Blue · January 26, 2007

So you admit some are forced, wouldn't legalizing it with protection help them. I have the feeling that the people who are against legalization have another agenda and it ain't freedom of choice.

I think it comes down to how far the government should be instilling some common community values with regards to the law. I can see the point in keeping prostitution illegal as it is seen as degrading to a person, however at the same time keeping it illegal doesn't solve the problem.

I'd favour more social programs or protection for women who want to get out of prostitution. However in saying that I'd still support a model similar to the Dutch, as that system seem's to work better than the current one.

BubberMiley · January 26, 2007

What government raised these taxes?

Both the provincial governments and the feds.

guyser · January 27, 2007

So you admit some are forced, wouldn't legalizing it with protection help them. I have the feeling that the people who are against legalization have another agenda and it ain't freedom of choice.

I am for legalizing it. Wont help with most of what you propose I suspect.

It is illegal now, and would be after legalization to force anyone to become a prostitute. If there is no threat of violence, then what is the conundrum? Any threat associated with forcing someone to do anything is against the law. Has been for centuries and will be in the future.

It is not some panacea whereby legalizing it stops all violence to prostitute. They will still get scary Johns (or Janes) who will threaten, beat up or abuse the prostitute. It would "likely" help a small percentage of prostitutes, and it would perhaps make it more mainstream thereby hopefully reducing the pimps that prey on certain types of women, that includes minors. And the less profitable to the pimp, the less they will stay in that line of work.

Same as marijuana. Wont get rid of all dealers, but most will go and do something else.

BC_chick · January 27, 2007

What separate debate?

"I think all Canadians experience just unbelievable horror and outrage at the acts that have been committed," Harper said Friday. "And I don't think there's a person in this country (who) cannot react with extreme revulsion to the events that are on trial there."

[...]

Some opposition MPs and advocates for sex trade workers have said the brutal murders are part of a widespread pattern of violence against prostitutes. And some have suggested that prostitutes would be safer if their profession was legalized.

However, Harper swiftly ruled out that idea. "In terms of legalization of prostitution, I can just tell you that obviously that's something that this government doesn't favour. I think that's a separate debate."