O'Connor on the Afghan War

[tml12]

"5. He now will NOT let Canadian MP's see what is going on in Afghanistan, while he lets though he knows friendly to him go wherever they want?"

In my opinion, a skilled debater should learn how to type slowly and speak proper English. If you are talking about why he wouldn't let the MPs leave the base, it was because he wanted the military to be able to ensure their safety.

I do have a bit of a problem with this one. A committee representing Parliament should be able to go where it chooses as long as they and the public are made to understand that the military might not be able to take responsibility for their safety in some situations.

If something happened to one of those MPs it would look really bad for the government and the military. While in theory you might be correct, I've got to go with O'Connor on that one.

[jdobbin]

O'Conner,

Best MND I have ever worked for. He's ex-military, knows the military, knows what we need & don't need. An ex-soldier running the military, almost as crazy as a doctor running Health department or a ex-cop or lawyer running justice.

Lefties do not like him because we in the military do. He knows military capabilities & equip, he knows what equip we need & really do not need, he gets us what we really need.

I have met him, great guy. Hope he's around for a long long time....

He has cited national security as a reason for not properly tendering contracts. He is about to pull Boeing work out of Winnipeg to send it to Quebec. Sounds like the same old right wing to me.

[jdobbin]

If something happened to one of those MPs it would look really bad for the government and the military. While in theory you might be correct, I've got to go with O'Connor on that one.

How is it that every other NATO country is able to send its committees numerous times to numerous places?

If it is so dangerous why was Tim Horton's allowed on base before a committee? Why was Rick Mercer allowed on base? They wouldn't let the committee go until it became apparent that every country such as the Netherlands, Britain, Germany and the U.S. had sent committees to do their work and report back to their elected bodies. Canada stood alone saying it was too dangerous.

[tml12]

O'Conner,

Best MND I have ever worked for. He's ex-military, knows the military, knows what we need & don't need. An ex-soldier running the military, almost as crazy as a doctor running Health department or a ex-cop or lawyer running justice.

Lefties do not like him because we in the military do. He knows military capabilities & equip, he knows what equip we need & really do not need, he gets us what we really need.

I have met him, great guy. Hope he's around for a long long time....

He has cited national security as a reason for not properly tendering contracts. He is about to pull Boeing work out of Winnipeg to send it to Quebec. Sounds like the same old right wing to me.

How is any of that right-wing to you?

[Fortunata]

Wasn't it also too dangerous for the Senate committee to even get into Afghanistan on base? Funny how this all works.

[tml12]

If something happened to one of those MPs it would look really bad for the government and the military. While in theory you might be correct, I've got to go with O'Connor on that one.

How is it that every other NATO country is able to send its committees numerous times to numerous places?

If it is so dangerous why was Tim Horton's allowed on base before a committee? Why was Rick Mercer allowed on base? They wouldn't let the committee go until it became apparent that every country such as the Netherlands, Britain, Germany and the U.S. had sent committees to do their work and report back to their elected bodies. Canada stood alone saying it was too dangerous.

Citations?

[Wilber]

If something happened to one of those MPs it would look really bad for the government and the military. While in theory you might be correct, I've got to go with O'Connor on that one.

Theory nothing, they represent the people of Canada as their representatives in Parliament. It's their job. Everyone else representing Canada in Afghanistan is taking that risk, why should they be different? I think the guy is doing a good job but that he is wrong on this one.

[jdobbin]

Citations?

Rick Mercer has visited the base three times.

http://www.thestar.com/artsentertainment/article/174660

Anymore citations or do you also disbelieve that there is an actual Tim Horton's in Kandahar?

[tml12]

If something happened to one of those MPs it would look really bad for the government and the military. While in theory you might be correct, I've got to go with O'Connor on that one.

Theory nothing, they represent the people of Canada as their representatives in Parliament. It's their job. Everyone else representing Canada in Afghanistan is taking that risk, why should they be different? I think the guy is doing a good job but that he is wrong on this one.

We may have to agree to disagree. The individuals there representing Canada are either military people or civilians who have been trained to be there. Visiting government individuals may not have the proper training to deal with that atmosphere.

[jdobbin]

We may have to agree to disagree. The individuals there representing Canada are either military people or civilians who have been trained to be there. Visiting government individuals may not have the proper training to deal with that atmosphere.

Rick Mercer received training to be in Kandahar?

[Saturn]

We may have to agree to disagree. The individuals there representing Canada are either military people or civilians who have been trained to be there. Visiting government individuals may not have the proper training to deal with that atmosphere.

Rick Mercer received training to be in Kandahar?

I bet he did. So did the guys from This hour has 22 minutes and dozens of other entertainers who have visited the troops.

[tml12]

Citations?

Rick Mercer has visited the base three times.

http://www.thestar.com/artsentertainment/article/174660

Anymore citations or do you also disbelieve that there is an actual Tim Horton's in Kandahar?

You gave the impression Mercer, unlike the MPs, was allowed off-base.

[weaponeer]

As for the issue about why this parlimentry group cannot leave the base, I frankly do not understand why?? They should be allowed to "tag along" with Canadian patrols provided they do not get in the way or jepardize soldiersw lives. I have been in theatre when politicians show up, they can be a royal pain. They get in the way, they need to be babysat. However they should be allowed to see what's going on.

As for O'Conner as MND, he is awesome. The best we have ever had, & I have been in the CF for 18 years. He know military issues, he knows what equip is best, he listens to us, and responds to our needs.

Anyone that know anything about military equip & operations, interoperability knows the best strat airlifter in the world is C17, no need to bid, buy them. Anyone that know anything about military equip & operations, interoperability knows the C130J is the best Tac airlifter in the world, no need for drawn out political BS, BUY THEM!!! There is no need for endless debate & bidding on heavy transport helos, Chinook is the worlds best, BUY THEM!!! O'Conner has cut the political crap, and is taking action. We will save $$ in the long run without bidding, debating & political garbage.

C17, Chinook, CF18 mid life up-grade, all by Beoing. C130J, C27J SAR planes, CP140 up-grade, JSF, all Lockheed-Martin. You become a companies big customer, you get benifits. You use the same equip as your allies, you get benifits.

[M.Dancer]

As for the issue about why this parlimentry group cannot leave the base, I frankly do not understand why?? They should be allowed to "tag along" with Canadian patrols provided they do not get in the way or jepardize soldiersw lives. I have been in theatre when politicians show up, they can be a royal pain. They get in the way, they need to be babysat. However they should be allowed to see what's going on.

As for O'Conner as MND, he is awesome. The best we have ever had, & I have been in the CF for 18 years. He know military issues, he knows what equip is best, he listens to us, and responds to our needs.

Anyone that know anything about military equip & operations, interoperability knows the best strat airlifter in the world is C17, no need to bid, buy them. Anyone that know anything about military equip & operations, interoperability knows the C130J is the best Tac airlifter in the world, no need for drawn out political BS, BUY THEM!!! There is no need for endless debate & bidding on heavy transport helos, Chinook is the worlds best, BUY THEM!!! O'Conner has cut the political crap, and is taking action. We will save $$ in the long run without bidding, debating & political garbage.

C17, Chinook, CF18 mid life up-grade, all by Beoing. C130J, C27J SAR planes, CP140 up-grade, JSF, all Lockheed-Martin. You become a companies big customer, you get benifits. You use the same equip as your allies, you get benifits.

Yeah...but the smart money is on Airbus.......

[weaponeer]

No, the smart $$ is not on Airbus!! Sorry!!!

[Catchme]

As for the issue about why this parlimentry group cannot leave the base, I frankly do not understand why?? They should be allowed to "tag along" with Canadian patrols provided they do not get in the way or jepardize soldiersw lives. I have been in theatre when politicians show up, they can be a royal pain. They get in the way, they need to be babysat. However they should be allowed to see what's going on.

There is no need for endless debate & bidding on heavy transport helos, Chinook is the worlds best, BUY THEM!!! .... We will save $$ in the long run without bidding, debating & political garbage.

C17, Chinook, CF18 mid life up-grade, all by Beoing. C130J, C27J SAR planes, CP140 up-grade, JSF, all Lockheed-Martin. You become a companies big customer, you get benifits. You use the same equip as your allies, you get benifits.

Thanks for saying there is NO reason why they shouldn't be off base. Really makes one wonder why O'Connor is saying they can't be, then doesn't it?

And I am prepared to accept the cost savings you get from knowing what it is needed and just purchasing it as one explanation for the no bid. Good point. However, I don't think there was/is a great deal of difference in the Italian and Spanish planes, wasn't it just something about less than an inch difference in door heights?

[weaponeer]

The C27J (Italian plane) has the same engine, avionics & flight computer system as the 17 new C130J's. The C27 is basically a baby C130J. This will save big $$ on pilot training, maint training, spares inventories etc... As well, when you us the same equip as your allies, you save resources & effort. If a Canadian C130J lands in Khandahar & breaks, USAF maint crew can fix it, they use the same plane. British C130J lands & breaks in Canada, our maint folks will be able to fix.. Make life easier.

Again, I do not know why they cannot leave the base. If it was safe, I would be showing them everything I possibly could.

[Wilber]

And I am prepared to accept the cost savings you get from knowing what it is needed and just purchasing it as one explanation for the no bid. Good point. However, I don't think there was/is a great deal of difference in the Italian and Spanish planes, wasn't it just something about less than an inch difference in door heights?

No, this got beat to death on another thread. They are different types of aircraft. Comparing them to the C-130 is like comparing a 1 ton with a 3 ton truck. Both good for a purpose but not the same purpose.

[weaponeer]

C27J is the USAF designation for the Italian G222. It is made in the USA by Lockeed-Martin, same contractor that builds the C130J. The reason the C27J was chosen was commonality between the two fleets....

[Catchme]

K, thank you both, sounds reasonable enough then.

[weaponeer]

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/

Here's a really good link with some info on the CF & A-stan........

[Catchme]

Thanks for the link have had a quick look around and am going to go look it over indepth, but just 1 question, so Lockheed Martin is the building the planes we are buying?

[jdobbin]

How is any of that right-wing to you?

Because Mulroney and his Conservative cohorts were responsible for taking the CF-18 contract out of Winnipeg and placing it Montreal. Now they look to do the same with the C-17.

Say what you will about the Liberals but they never took a military contract out of Winnipeg that was won fairly in tender.

[jdobbin]

deleted

[weaponeer]

I have not yet heard who was getting the C17 DLIR contract. C17 is a Boeing product, makes sense Beoing would do the DLIR. The CF18 thing years ago was crap, I agree. Who will get the Chinook contract, would it not be Beoing in Arnprior ON??? I have a good friend down in Altus right now training on the C17, I will e-mail & ask him....

Catchme,

Yes, the C130J's will be made by Lockheed-Matrin, I believe the factory is in a Atlanta, not 100% sure. The C17's are built in Palmdale Calif, and the Chinook helos are manufactured in Philidelphia by Beoing Vertal. The C27J is the US version of the Italian G222 airplane. It is built under licence in the USA by Lockheed-Martin.