Liberal Khan to cross floor to Tory backbench

[White Doors]

Then again, is Dion French (from France) or Canadian?

Ahhh if he were really that French he would have already surrendered the next election.

hahaha!!! too true!

[Canadian Blue]

Reform, real representation can't come too soon for me. Who will make this happen? Not a dam one of them.

Well, it all depends on what happen's at the provincial level. If more provinces adopt electoral reform's, I would imagine that it would be beneficial for a party to then support electoral reform as well in order to get it. The problem is we haven't seen much of an outcry over the current system, if that does happen, we might get electoral reform.

[Who's Doing What?]

Why the heck would any party want a member who was a "special advisor" to another party?

Especially after the leaks the Liberals had during the last campaign, they really had no alternative other than to ask Khan to stop advising Harper or leave, before the next election is called.

Harper named Khan, a former fighter pilot in the Pakistani military, as his adviser on the Middle East and Afghanistan last summer.

Atleast Khan seems qualified.

[Ricki Bobbi]

John Baird is paying lip service to Canadians because he's smart and he knows that's what we want to hear. The CPC is getting good at either saying what Canadians want said or selling something making it seem to be what Canadians want. It's a system that the Liberals have used forever. Both parties have become excellent snake oil salesmen.

Reform, real representation can't come too soon for me. Who will make this happen? Not a dam one of them.

Ahhh, there is the rub.

Part of the venal hatred so many Liberals have for Harper is because he has professionalized the party.

There is a reason real reform won't take place.

Nobody really wants to do it. The Reform party is the closest to power any party advocating real change to the system has ever come.

Of course they faced many attacks of *scary* *scary* *scary*.

Real reform to the system involves reform to the Senate, not abolition. On that point alone the Conservatives are far beyond any other party out there.

[geoffrey]

This is bigger than that though W'sDW.

Khan is an middle-east immigrant to Canada from the GTA. He said that Dion's anti-business policies don't apply to most hard working immigrants like himself.

I'm cautiously optimistic after the CPC took a hard left after being elected. But perhaps we're seeing the critical shift in the GTA now that the immigrants have seen what a different government looks like. The CPC has alot to appeal to immigrants, a minor degree of social conservatism (remember, most Muslims would love to ban SSM and abortion too), very strong small-business policies (many are small-business owners) and a focus on the crime that has tarnished their communities.

Really, I can't see why the immigrant vote doesn't go to the CPC. Maybe it's a matter that they just don't realise it yet... it may take a few elections, but we'll see it happen. The Liberals have little to offer besides symobolic declarations and ridiculous things like that.

Like I said, the environment matters little to a family that is struggling to put food on the table, not that Khan's was. Many immigrants are struggling though. They're going to vote for the guy that helps them put food on their table and give their kids a chance to progress. If the CPC wants to be successful in Toronto, they're going to have to convince immigrants that they, not the NDP are that party. The Liberals will convince immigrants that they are disinterested in their wellbeing on their own.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Really, I can't see why the immigrant vote doesn't go to the CPC. Maybe it's a matter that they just don't realise it yet... it may take a few elections, but we'll see it happen. The Liberals have little to offer besides symobolic declarations and ridiculous things like that.

Like I said, the environment matters little to a family that is struggling to put food on the table, not that Khan's was. Many immigrants are struggling though. They're going to vote for the guy that helps them put food on their table and give their kids a chance to progress. If the CPC wants to be successful in Toronto, they're going to have to convince immigrants that they, not the NDP are that party. The Liberals will convince immigrants that they are disinterested in their wellbeing on their own.

There are a couple reasons why the immigrant vote hasn't gone to the CPC yet.

All things being equal immigrants will vote with the party in power when they arrived in the country. Unfortunately in the immediate aftermath of Mulroney the Liberals focused directly on the immigrant vote with the *scary* *scary* *scary* thing. So basically all immigrants from the past 40+ years have a natural inclination to vote Liberal.

A Conservative majority later this year, or early next year, plus the transition to a strong leader to follow Harper and we might turn the immigrant tide.

[Fortunata]

Like I said, the environment matters little to a family that is struggling to put food on the table,

I disagree. If you just look at recycling for example, as many poor families recycle as more well-to-do families, and it may be that even more families recycle. If that is not a step in taking care of the environment, what is? The environment is not a CBC ploy as has been suggested on this forum; it is a genuine concern that the world's weather is changing and affecting every one of us. Do you not think poor people see this?

[Ricki Bobbi]

The environment is not a CBC ploy as has been suggested on this forum; it is a genuine concern that the world's weather is changing and affecting every one of us. Do you not think poor people see this?

Come on Fortunata. Who has made that *suggestion*?

When you look at things beyond recycling. Look at making homes energry efficient or driving hybrid vehicles.

Those are the type of things out of reach of the poorer family.

[gc1765]

Like a true Liberal, Dobbin,in denial that the Liberals didn't do this.

Dion did this to himself by telling Khan to leave the special advisor position. Khan's priority was for national interest, first. Dion in his stupidity forced Khan's hand.

If it was truly Dion who forced him out, he could have sat as an independent, not a Conservative.

[Ricki Bobbi]

If it was truly Dion who forced him out, he could have sat as an independent, not a Conservative.

Really don't get your point. He could have sat as an independent no matter what the reason for him leaving the Liberal caucus.

[geoffrey]

Like I said, the environment matters little to a family that is struggling to put food on the table,

I disagree. If you just look at recycling for example, as many poor families recycle as more well-to-do families, and it may be that even more families recycle. If that is not a step in taking care of the environment, what is? The environment is not a CBC ploy as has been suggested on this forum; it is a genuine concern that the world's weather is changing and affecting every one of us. Do you not think poor people see this?

Recycling is one thing, costs them nothing essientially. How many people that are struggling to get by want 10% of their taxes (enough to feed their family for a month) going to fight global warming?

I know the environment is a serious concern, my focuses are a little different then most of the politicans in that I'm concerned about soil toxicity, water pollution, asthma causing air pollution and most importantly the disgusting abundance of carcinogens in our environment that will kill nearly every person on this forum. Greenhouse gases are real, and CO2 is one of them. We should be conscious of our emissions and try to reduce them when we can. Incentives should be in place.

One great idea. Oilsands projects get a major capital tax exemption in their initial startup. Go to Suncor and the other major players and lay it down like this. You cut 20% in 10 years, or we tax you like a normal business.

Watch how quickly they react to that. You've now cut 20% of 10% of Canada's emissions... so only 2% overall... but it's 2% more than the Liberals ever did... do remember that emissions went up 20%+ in the last Liberal government.

We're not going to be able to abandon our coal addiction for power generation. We can't, there are no practical alternatives (nuclear is clean today, but a mess tomorrow, it's the ultimate passing the buck to future generations). So we need to invest in either a) planting more trees, creating carbon sinks or finding ways to trap the CO2 released from coal generation.

The major emissions in this country come from transportation, and in a big vast nation like Canada, that's going to be impossible to change. Stronger regulation of the car industry can improve things, but it'd take a cultural shift towards small cars over big trucks to really resolve this one. As well, cities need to invest in real transportation infrastructure so alternatives exist. There is no real convienient way for me to bike to work, I do on occassion but it's a pain in the ass of criss-crossing all over the city. Make it easy and more people will.

These all don't cost much from the government... not like a complex emissions trading regime does (which really doesn't do anything). Taxes don't have to go out (or be prevented from going down).

I can honestly tell you if you walked into the houses of most poor immigrants I sincerly doubt they'll tell you the first thing on their mind is the environment.

[jdobbin]

Like a true Liberal, Dobbin,in denial that the Liberals didn't do this.

Dion did this to himself by telling Khan to leave the special advisor position. Khan's priority was for national interest, first. Dion in his stupidity forced Khan's hand.

It would have looked better for the Liberal party to leave Khan in this role.....it looks more..er.. Canadian.

But of course everyone knows the natural governing party takes priority over all else if you're a member.

Unlike Turner who was bad mouthing the Conservative party in public, Khan did no such thing with the Liberals.

Typical Conservative to spin the truth their way.

Show me where Khan was forced out. Cite it please.

Dion asked him to state where his loyalties lay. He didn't. He crossed the floor instead.

[gc1765]

If it was truly Dion who forced him out, he could have sat as an independent, not a Conservative.

Really don't get your point. He could have sat as an independent no matter what the reason for him leaving the Conservative caucus.

My point is that there must have been other factors in Khan's choice other than Dion "forcing" him out. If it was ONLY because Dion forced him out, he would have sat as an independent. There must have been some other reason he joined the Conservatives.

[jdobbin]

Really, I can't see why the immigrant vote doesn't go to the CPC. Maybe it's a matter that they just don't realise it yet... it may take a few elections, but we'll see it happen. The Liberals have little to offer besides symobolic declarations and ridiculous things like that.

Perhaps because many Conservatives as we see in this forum don't want them, believe they are disruptive to Canada and think they are a drain on the nation.

[Ricki Bobbi]

My point is that there must have been other factors in Khan's choice other than Dion "forcing" him out. If it was ONLY because Dion forced him out, he would have sat as an independent. There must have been some other reason he joined the Conservatives.

Of course there were other factors in Khan's choice to leave.

Nobody believes that Dion forced Khan out. It was really a pathetic move on Dion's part.

"You can't quit because you are fired.

[jdobbin]

My point is that there must have been other factors in Khan's choice other than Dion "forcing" him out. If it was ONLY because Dion forced him out, he would have sat as an independent. There must have been some other reason he joined the Conservatives.

Perhaps because he was already a provincial Tory and had supported Tony Clement in 2004?

Even before Dion was elected, there had been talk in the riding about Khan leaving for the Tories. Any good leader would have to ask where such an MP stood.

[geoffrey]

Really, I can't see why the immigrant vote doesn't go to the CPC. Maybe it's a matter that they just don't realise it yet... it may take a few elections, but we'll see it happen. The Liberals have little to offer besides symobolic declarations and ridiculous things like that.

Perhaps because many Conservatives as we see in this forum don't want them, believe they are disruptive to Canada and think they are a drain on the nation.

That's limited to mikedavid and not any others really. Maybe Argus, though I think that's another issue. There are plenty of conservatives and Conservatives here that support immigration (even from the middle-East!) such as myself.

[jdobbin]

That's limited to mikedavid and not any others really. Maybe Argus, though I think that's another issue. There are plenty of conservatives and Conservatives here that support immigration (even from the middle-East!) such as myself.

I agree. But the perception is that there is more hostility to immigrants in the Conservatives. Several Conservative MPs have stepped in it a few times over this. Immigrants have a long memory.

[gc1765]

Nobody believes that Dion forced Khan out.

...except for the post that I quoted, as well as Steven Harper

“Mr. Dion decided this week to say publicly that Wajid Khan cannot remain a Liberal member of Parliament and help the national Conservative government and because of this, I suspect Mr. Khan felt compelled to make a choice,” Mr. Harper said.

Link

[Who's Doing What?]

This is bigger than that though W'sDW.

I suppose it could be, but what I stated above would be more than enough for me to do the same as Dion. The last thing the Liberals need is to be scooped on their every announcement again like the last election. Not to say it wasn't funny, but it was like shooting themselves in the foot. By the time the Liberals were at the press conference to make a platform announcement, they where already a half hour or more behind the CPC's critique of the same announcement.

Khan is an middle-east immigrant to Canada from the GTA. He said that Dion's anti-business policies don't apply to most hard working immigrants like himself.

What we need is to allow these higly trained immigrants the ability to work in their field of study and not have a neurosurgeon driving a taxi. What business policies in particular was he upset with?

I'm cautiously optimistic after the CPC took a hard left after being elected. But perhaps we're seeing the critical shift in the GTA now that the immigrants have seen what a different government looks like. The CPC has alot to appeal to immigrants, a minor degree of social conservatism (remember, most Muslims would love to ban SSM and abortion too), very strong small-business policies (many are small-business owners) and a focus on the crime that has tarnished their communities.

Ya other than taking away MPs freedom of speach, taking only days to throw camapaign promises and party platforms out the window, and behaving in similar fashion to what they crucified liberals for, the CPC has some good policies. I like the reverse onus for gun crime. I like the idea of the $500 rebate for youth sports, but what about those families who can't afford to pay $500 for a kids sport? I had to stop playing hockey when I was young because my parents couldn't afford it. I would like to see some new spaces in youth sports created for those who can't afford it, rather than see the families who can afford it, get a rebate at tax time. But as a policy it is definitly a vote getter. Mass transit rebates are a great idea to not only help those who maybe can't afford a car but also promote more people to leave their cars at home and take the train or bus.

Really, I can't see why the immigrant vote doesn't go to the CPC. Maybe it's a matter that they just don't realise it yet... it may take a few elections, but we'll see it happen. The Liberals have little to offer besides symobolic declarations and ridiculous things like that.

Like I said, the environment matters little to a family that is struggling to put food on the table, not that Khan's was. Many immigrants are struggling though. They're going to vote for the guy that helps them put food on their table and give their kids a chance to progress. If the CPC wants to be successful in Toronto, they're going to have to convince immigrants that they, not the NDP are that party. The Liberals will convince immigrants that they are disinterested in their wellbeing on their own.

Maybe the immigrants see something you are missing? OR, It could be they are missing what you see?

I really couldn't care less who the immigrants vote for. CPC/Liberal same S*** different day.

[Ricki Bobbi]

...except for the post that I quoted, as well as Steven Harper

“Mr. Dion decided this week to say publicly that Wajid Khan cannot remain a Liberal member of Parliament and help the national Conservative government and because of this, I suspect Mr. Khan felt compelled to make a choice,” Mr. Harper said.

Link

Yawn ....

To repeat nobody really believes that.

Dion said what he did to look like he was in control.

Harper used what Dion sait to look like he was just helping out the poor waif Wajid Khan.

[Wilber]

Why would Dion want to prevent him from serving his country in a matter which he has some expertise? Perhaps Khan just came to realize that Harper's views are more in line with his than Dion's. He would be in Harpers new Cabinet if it was for immediate reward.

[jdobbin]

Why would Dion want to prevent him from serving his country in a matter which he has some expertise? Perhaps Khan just came to realize that Harper's views are more in line with his than Dion's. He would be in Harpers new Cabinet if it was for immediate reward.

If the rumours that Khan was thinking of the crossing the floor even before Dion was leader were true, Dion would be a fool to not ask where the loyalty of the members stood.

One other thing: was Khan's work for the government secret or could it be shared with the Liberal caucus?

[Canuck E Stan]

Like a true Liberal, Dobbin,in denial that the Liberals didn't do this.

Dion did this to himself by telling Khan to leave the special advisor position. Khan's priority was for national interest, first. Dion in his stupidity forced Khan's hand.

It would have looked better for the Liberal party to leave Khan in this role.....it looks more..er.. Canadian.

But of course everyone knows the natural governing party takes priority over all else if you're a member.

Unlike Turner who was bad mouthing the Conservative party in public, Khan did no such thing with the Liberals.

Typical Conservative to spin the truth their way.

Show me where Khan was forced out. Cite it please.

Dion asked him to state where his loyalties lay. He didn't. He crossed the floor instead.

Dobbin,Dobbin, Dobbin.

Khan is a hard-core Canadian. Dion wanted him to leave the special advisor position.

Khan felt he was doing something good for CANADA by being in this position.

Obvoiusly Dion didn't think this was an important position to be in FOR THE GOOD OF THE LIBERAL PARTY, and asked him to leave that position.

Dion felt it was a government/opposition thing, and being in opposition means your job is to fight government, regardless if you can do some good for Canadians and Canada.

Khan being a patriotic hard-core CANADIAN decided it WAS important and didn't want to give it up,so he left Dion and his natural governing party so he could continue to do something he felt was important for CANADA. Khan's loyalties lie with CANADA -the country first, that's why he asked Harper if he could help as an advisor because of his knowledge of that part of the world.

Unlike Dion who isn't a hard-core Canadian, (he couldn't decide in the first referendum whether to be a Canadian or separatist), Khan is a Canadian first, and will give his allegiance to the country first. Why was Dion so against Khan being in this position, when it could do some good for Canada, I would say he feels it's more imortant to be Liberal..first.

Khan

Mr. Khan said he had offered to advise Mr. Dion in a similar capacity but didn't receive a call back from the new leader.

"He has a lot of passion for Canada and for him Canada is more important than any party," said Khalid Sagheer, president of the Liberal riding association in Mississauga-Streetsville and a friend of the MP since before he immigrated to Canada in 1974. "He will always do anything for Canada regardless of party politics."

[jdobbin]

Dobbin,Dobbin, Dobbin.

Khan is a hard-core Canadian. Dion wanted him to leave the special advisor position.

Khan felt he was doing something good for CANADA by being in this position.

Obvoiusly Dion didn't think this was an important position to be in FOR THE GOOD OF THE LIBERAL PARTY, and asked him to leave that position.

Dion felt it was a government/opposition thing, and being in opposition means your job is to fight government, regardless if you can do some good for Canadians and Canada.

Khan being a patriotic hard-core CANADIAN decided it WAS important and didn't want to give it up,so he left Dion and his natural governing party so he could continue to do something he felt was important for CANADA. Khan's loyalties lie with CANADA -the country first, that's why he asked Harper if he could help as an advisor because of his knowledge of that part of the world.

Unlike Dion who isn't a hard-core Canadian, (he couldn't decide in the first referendum whether to be a Canadian or separatist), Khan is a Canadian first, and will give his allegiance to the country first. Why was Dion so against Khan being in this position, when it could do some good for Canada, I would say he feels it's more imortant to be Liberal..first.

Khan was a provincial Tory. Was the Liberal party privy to what advice was being given to the government? Was the Tory government privy to what the policy in Afghanistan/Pakistan was going to be through Khan?

Khan is a dual citizen. I have no reason to believe he isn't a Canadian. I do have questions about him being a Liberal. You think he was a hardcore Liberal? Do you think he was committed to the job of an Opposition MP? Or do you think he was more comfortable on the government side to begin with?

The rumours of Khan leaving even before Dion came to office are what hastened Dion to act. You think he was stupid to ask if those rumours were true?