New Bush 'plan'

[Guthrie]

12,000+ civilian deaths in 2006. Daily double digit death tolls. Widespread torture and murder.

Sounds like a sunday afternoon under Saddam or the Taliban.

Keep on fighting boys. Only 3,000 dead US soldiers is tiny. That's like one MONTH in Vietnam.

Since the Bush admin detained combatants in Gitmo, took out Iraq and Afghan and developed a presence in the Mid East we've been taking the war to them.

Now we're talking about a subversion in Syria. That would be great. Slowly but surely the plan is taking shape.

If only the skittish ADD media trained zombie left would have some visino and patience to see it through...

actually, it's 20,000+ Iraqis killed in 2006 -

3000 dead soldiers is not, by any stretch, 'tiny' - moreover that comparison to vietnam is severely flawed because the military in Iraq has superior body armor and medical response --- 3000 dead and 15,000 limbs and lives of families, all but destroyed - over 50% of US soldiers wounded in Iraq come home to live on welfare programs -

it has been shown that with the same equiptment and medical facilities as we had in vietnam, the death toll among American soldiers in Iraq would already be greater than the entire vietnam war

Bush has been taking a war to the middle east - but he hasn't helped America nor any part of the free world, not a whit -- this wreckless adventure is all the more shameful for the brutality and slaughter that marked those wreckless adventures of late 19th and early 20th centuries

[Figleaf]

Edited July 24, 2007 by Figleaf

[blackascoal]

This situation duplicates the Vietnam War so closely it is shocking. The creeping quicksand of incremental troops is the highlight. I recommend everyone take a look at the third chapter of Barbara Tuchmans, "The March of Folly".

America never deposed the Vietnamese government and or win the war.This after 12 years.

America deposed the Hussein government and won the war.This after a few weeks.

Quite a difference to me.

The problem are those few fanatics who blow up Iraqi civilians and coalition troops and a few Iraqi police.They have not accepted the "will of the voters" government and its constitution.

It is folly to make tortured comments over two very different wars.

There is not the slightest thing "tortured" about comparisons of these two failed misadventures, other than .. there is no comparison. It takes a great deal of torturing to come to that conclusion.

The good news is that it didn't take 58,000 dead American troops for the American people to wake up to the reality of the worst blunder in American history.

That bad news is that we were still 655,000 + dead Iraqis too late.

"Few fanactics"?

The sad news is that you're serious .. and completely unaware that 61% of the Iraqi people want us dead .. a number that would have been much higher if you remove the Kurds from the sampling.

"Coalition troops"

Once again, sad and ill-informed. This may surprise you, but the so-called "coalition" is almost gone .. and as soon as the brits kick Tony Blair's ass out the door, british and Japanese troops will also be out of Iraq .. and American troops will be there virtually alone.

What was TRULY stupid .. ontop of a mountains of stupids .. was the lynching of Saddam, which has made the situation much worse and managed to turn Saddam from murderous dictator into a martyr/hero.

That was stupid.

[Catchme]

GostHacked said: Where are they going to get that many more troops?

This where:

US Army urges dead to re-enlist

The letters were sent to more than 5,100 Army officers listed as recently having left the military.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6237607.stm

[Canadian Blue]

Iraq was one of the worst managed wars in the past 50 years. I think what the American's failed to do was bring in enough troop's afterward's in order to quell any insurgent's, and deal with the lawlessness which was predominant. As well the fact that the administration was in a constant state of denial didn't help much either.

[Higgly]

Deja Vietnam all over again. Let's not forget where the idea to invade Iraq came from: Paul Wolfowitz, while working for Richard Perle's consultancy under contract to Benjamen Netenyahu during his election bid in Israel following the murder of Itzhak Rabin, wrote a paper which crystalized the Likud vision for the Middle East, and called for the invasion of Iraq and the deposing of Saddam. Wolfowitz soon after got himself a job in the US Defense Department. He pushed the idea to Bush Senior, who had the good sense to listen to Colin Powell and stayed out. He continued to push the idea to Bush junior, who took it hook, line and sinker. This was the end product of a coalition of morons: Bush Jr., Wolfowitz, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Put them all together and they might be able to play a decent game of poker, but I wouldn't let them play with my money. Putting them in charge of the world's most powerful nation is a lesson in the flaws of democracy.

[HoratioCaine]

The only way this will end is with impeachment or a Democratic win in 2008.

[bush_cheney2004]

The only way this will end is with impeachment or a Democratic win in 2008.

That's what they said about Nixon for 1968. Come to think of it, even he wasn't impeached.

[newbie]

The only way this will end is with impeachment or a Democratic win in 2008.

That's what they said about Nixon for 1968. Come to think of it, even he wasn't impeached.

He would have been. He lost the confidence of both houses. Why do you think he resigned then?

[bush_cheney2004]

He would have been. He lost the confidence of both houses. Why do you think he resigned then?

The point was that leaving Vietnam (the Democrat's quagmire) was also the rally cry to beat Humphrey (LBJ did not seek, nor would he accept the '68 nomination). Nixon's "peace with honor" meant five more years of war, and even after Watergate went down, he avoided impeachment by resigning.

I suppose to some Canadians, and particularly with their beloved Clinton's impeachment fresh in their minds, the impeachment of George W. Bush seems obvious. But impeachment is more about politics than justice, and justice sips meekly from the fountain of power.

[blackascoal]

The choices are:

status qua

Withdraw and risk regional war

or finally provide the military with enough troops to provide security.

There;s a difference between reading, and understanding.

there's another choice .. stick around in Iraq and wait for that Saigon Moment.

[blackascoal]

This "plan" has been villified from everyone to the American people, republicans, the Iraqi people, and planet earth.

Where's the argument?

[Catchme]

Now, this is even stupider, Bush commenting on his plan and Saddam's hanging. I mean who really listens to this man or even believes what he says anymore?

"President Bush said Tuesday the unruly execution of Saddam Hussein "looked like it was kind of a revenge killing," making it harder to persuade a skeptical U.S. public that Iraq's government will keep promises central to Bush's plan for a troop increase.

In his toughest assessment yet, Bush criticized the circumstances of Saddam's hanging last month, as well as Monday's execution of two top aides, including Saddam's half brother.

"I was disappointed and felt like they fumbled the — particularly the Saddam Hussein execution," the president said in an interview with PBS' Jim Lehrer....

"It makes it harder for me to make the case to the American people that this is a government that does want to unify the country and move forward," Bush said. "And it just goes to show that this is a government that has still got some maturation to do."

Bush is an idiot

Excuse me, he/they launched an illegal war based upon lies, destroyed another country just before that for no reason, and has 2 years left out of 8 and say the government needs to mature?

[bush_cheney2004]

Now, this is even stupider, Bush commenting on his plan and Saddam's hanging. I mean who really listens to this man or even believes what he says anymore?

Seems listening to Bush was good enough for a healthy audience share last Sunday (60 minutes). Taliban Jack wasn't invited.

[blackascoal]

Now, this is even stupider, Bush commenting on his plan and Saddam's hanging. I mean who really listens to this man or even believes what he says anymore?

Seems listening to Bush was good enough for a healthy audience share last Sunday (60 minutes). Taliban Jack wasn't invited.

Which was met with resounding critcism and disdain .. as well as a 70% disapproval .. even by many republicans.

[frogs]

Bailing on Iraq would be very irresponsible at this point.

Bailing would be a mistake, I agree! Let the people that are greedy enough to kill people they don't know, for cash and other benefits, let them all get killed over there, and then that will save the whole world a lot of money, and rid the earth of silly heartless mercenaries.

[margrace]

Bailing on Iraq would be very irresponsible at this point.

Bailing would be a mistake, I agree! Let the people that are greedy enough to kill people they don't know, for cash and other benefits, let them all get killed over there, and then that will save the whole world a lot of money, and rid the earth of silly heartless mercenaries.

I agree with you on that one.

[frogs]

Iraq was one of the worst managed wars in the past 50 years. I think what the American's failed to do was bring in enough troop's afterward's in order to quell any insurgent's, and deal with the lawlessness which was predominant. As well the fact that the administration was in a constant state of denial didn't help much either.

I agree totally! If we'd have sent all the troops,cops, sheriffs, and without weapons, the war would be over, and we would have saved a lot of money! And we wouldn't be taxed anymore!

[Guthrie]

Now, this is even stupider, Bush commenting on his plan and Saddam's hanging. I mean who really listens to this man or even believes what he says anymore?

Seems listening to Bush was good enough for a healthy audience share last Sunday (60 minutes). Taliban Jack wasn't invited.

Who is, 'Taliban Jack?' -- not Jack Murtha, I hope

Military Service Awards

Distinguished Service Medal of the United States Marine Corps, upon his retirement from the Marine Corps Reserves for 37 years of distinguished service to his country, 1990.

Distinguished Service Medal, Pennsylvania's highest honor, 1977.

Meritorious Service Medal, Pennsylvania's second-highest honor, 1976.

Bronze Star with Combat V, 1966.

Purple Heart, 1966.

Purple Heart, second award, 1966.

Vietnamese Cross of Galantry, 1966.

American Spirit Honor Medal of the Marine Corps Recruit Department, 1952.

That first one is very special to the Marines - attacking the men who recieve it shows more about the attackers than the Marine.

[Figleaf]

That first one is very special to the Marines - attacking the men who recieve it shows more about the attackers than the Marine.

It's funny you should say that ... I have long thought that the whole 'Swift Boat Veteran' smear campaign against John Kerry was a pretty offensive slight against the very integrity of the Naval decorations system.

[bush_cheney2004]

Who is, 'Taliban Jack?' -- not Jack Murtha, I hope

Taliban Jack is Jack Layton (NDP).....sorry, I assumed this was a Canadian forum