Maher Arar has pared down his $400-million lawsuit against

[gerryhatrick]

I am making sense, for the good of the country and taxpayers, he needs to get out of here.

You are attacking a Canadian citizen. You have decided this man is guilty, and are slandering him.

There are rules against insults/slanders against third parties. I haven't reported you yet...too much of that goes on around here (reporting), but if you choose to keep it up I will.

The hateful attacks you've levelled against Arar in this topic and the cavalier way you decide to invalidate his citizenship are putting you in a sordid class by yourself.

[mikedavid00]

I am making sense, for the good of the country and taxpayers, he needs to get out of here.

You are attacking a Canadian citizen. You have decided this man is guilty, and are slandering him.

There are rules against insults/slanders against third parties. I haven't reported you yet...too much of that goes on around here (reporting), but if you choose to keep it up I will.

The hateful attacks you've levelled against Arar in this topic and the cavalier way you decide to invalidate his citizenship are putting you in a sordid class by yourself.

lol.. go report me. I'm not making any attacks against him, i just want him the hell out of my country.

[mikedavid00]

What part of him being a Canadian Citizen do you not understand?

I don't care what a peice of paper says. The Brits knew how to deal with these situations.

You are only looking at one side of the story, there is another side.

Also, there is NO burden of proof he was torchured. There is only his world which is not good enough to hold up in courty.

I feel our PM should take control of this situation and do the right thing:

"Today we are announcing that with the powers invested in me, the right honorable Prime Minister of Canada, we are revoking the citizenship of Maher Arar and his family. They are being detained now and will be expelled to the country of their choice tommorow. In the future, Mehar will also not be allowed to enter Canadian waters, air space, or land. Arar may persue his legal endevor from over seas if he choses. Thank you."

The UK did this to like what.. 2 dozen people when they had absolutely NOTHING to do with the london train bombings. Only a small minority of people were crrying that it 'wasn't fair'.

[geoffrey]

If he had destroyed his ties to his homeland we wouldn't be here. He refused to renounce his Syrian citizenship, so he was sent there completely within the confines of international law. The US has every right to send someone back to their homeland.

I am not even going to ask for a citation to such an international lawa. I am going to say that is a ridiculous and evil law -- if it exists.

If the U.S.A. has a right to send someone back to their homeland, it is still wrong.

Why? When a terrorist enters Canada, should we not be able to deport him?

Or should we accept every last person in the world with open arms?

Every country should be able to export their undesirables back to where they originate.

Canada isn't responsible for anything. This is a US issue with a Syrian citizen. I have little concern here. If Syria tortured him, which I dispute, then Syria should pay the price. Not us. We have nothing to do with this besides some fault leads with the RCMP...

If I through you into a boiling pit of lava, should we blame the lava if you get burned??????

If the lava was sentient and conciously decided to burn me, yes.

You yourself said in another thread that Calgary has no claim to the oilsands... who is this 'Calgary' anyway. I say the same here. Syria or Canada can't be responsible for such a thing. Those that tortured him and authorized the torture can be held responsible because they had the final say. If an RCMP agent lied to cause harm to Arar, then yes, he should be responsible.

But I shouldn't held responsible through Canada for what happened to him.

Why is citizenship a reason to blame him? Please justify.

If you still remain a citizen of a country that is known to produce terrorists and encourage violence then you should expect to be held under a higher level of scruntiny. Why would someone hold a Syrian citizenship, of what benefit is it to Arar?

Is he Canadian or Syrian? That quesiton should never have to be asked.

Look at things in simple terms:

Maher Arar's deportation was against his will and unfounded. Therefore, whoever participated is responsible.

Arar paid an airline to get him from point A to B and that airline did not fulfill their end of the bargain. The airline is to blame.

Canadian and American employees participated in his deporattion. They deserve blame.

People are saying that he should ONLY focus his lawsuit on the Syrians. Wrong!!!

Arar can focus his lawsuit against anybody who harmed him. Period.

But should you and I pay Arar for what these people did. Their negligence isn't my responsibility.

What would you do if you were tortured outside of Canada and the government didn't come to you're aid?

The government did come to Arar's aid, he was visited regularly by embassy staff that examined him and repeatedly asked about torture. Because Arar didn't say anything until he stood to make a buck doesn't mean the government didn't try.

[Saturn]

Given that he is an engineer with a Master's degree and she has a Ph.D. in finance, your estimate of $400-$500K is a pathetic underestimate for how much two ruined careers are worth.

Ruined careers - hardly. His wife rode the coat-tails of this tragedy right into parliament. If she is half-way competent she should be able to hold on long enough to qualify for the MP pension plan after 6 years. She has no further claim on the public purse. As far as Arar goes his career is hardly ruined if has the technical skills to go with the title then he should have no problems finding an equivalent job now that he has been exonerated.

That said, I did not say he should get nothing - I said $1-2 million would ensure that he and his wife never has to work another day in his life. Early retirement should be more than enough to compensate for any pain and suffering - especially considering the fact that they are still capable of working. The idea that people should be entitled to lottery ticket style payouts because of 'pain and suffering' is absurd.

I don't know what MP pension plan you are talking about. I didn't realize people other than MPs qualified for MP pensions. And Arar's career in Canada is over -probably the same goes for everywhere else. $37 million is too much but you have to sue for 10 times as much, so that you get one-tenth of what you asked for. Ya, you sit in a Syrian jail for a year and then tell me that you are not entitled to anything for "pain and suffering".

[Saturn]

I feel our PM should take control of this situation and do the right thing:

"Today we are announcing that with the powers invested in me, the right honorable Prime Minister of Canada, we are revoking the citizenship of Maher Arar and his family. They are being detained now and will be expelled to the country of their choice tommorow. In the future, Mehar will also not be allowed to enter Canadian waters, air space, or land. Arar may persue his legal endevor from over seas if he choses. Thank you."

Reported!

[Riverwind]

I don't know what MP pension plan you are talking about. I didn't realize people other than MPs qualified for MP pensions.

Sorry - my mistake. I read in another post that she had won her seat - she actually lost. However, it appears she is currently employed as a Professor of Finance, at Thompson Rivers University in Kamloops, British Columbia. Her career does not appear to over.

And Arar's career in Canada is over -probably the same goes for everywhere else.

Why? I have hired engineers in the past and I would have no qualms about hiring the guy if his technical experience and work related references were good. However, I could see him having problems if he was a mediocre engineer. If that is the case then his career might have taken a dive anyways given the blood letting in the Ottawa high tech sector over the last 5 years.

I don't buy this you have to ask for 10 times what you want crap. The court is supposed to award amounts based on what is justified given the loss and the precedents. His 'opening bid' should have zero impact on the final award. If it does then that means there are even bigger problems with the system.

[mikedavid00]

I feel our PM should take control of this situation and do the right thing:

"Today we are announcing that with the powers invested in me, the right honorable Prime Minister of Canada, we are revoking the citizenship of Maher Arar and his family. They are being detained now and will be expelled to the country of their choice tommorow. In the future, Mehar will also not be allowed to enter Canadian waters, air space, or land. Arar may persue his legal endevor from over seas if he choses. Thank you."

Reported!

Well that's ok. If I get banned it was because I was sharing my viewpoints that I do not want him in my country. It's because I'm defending the right of the Canadian tax payer. For the record, I never broke any laws regarding him. I never even slandared him. I don't really care about him to be honest...

I just want him EXPELLED FROM CANADA and his citizenship revoked completely. His children and relatives too. They can go back home to Syria (because it's those are the countries that they choose to keep their citizenship with) and enjoy the good music and food that only Syria can bring. He can also try to sue his own gov't and see how far he gets with that.

Or he can take off the UK and he can become the UK's problem. Either way, I just want him out of Canada not tommorow, not today, but yesterday.

[Saturn]

I don't know what MP pension plan you are talking about. I didn't realize people other than MPs qualified for MP pensions.

Sorry - my mistake. I read in another post that she had won her seat - she actually lost. However, it appears she is currently employed as a Professor of Finance, at Thompson Rivers University in Kamloops, British Columbia. Her career does not appear to over.

And Arar's career in Canada is over -probably the same goes for everywhere else.

Why? I have hired engineers in the past and I would have no qualms about hiring the guy if his technical experience and work related references were good. However, I could see him having problems if he was a mediocre engineer. If that is the case then his career might have taken a dive anyways given the blood letting in the Ottawa high tech sector over the last 5 years.

I don't buy this you have to ask for 10 times what you want crap. The court is supposed to award amounts based on what is justified given the loss and the precedents. His 'opening bid' should have zero impact on the final award. If it does then that means there are even bigger problems with the system.

Good for her - she was able to get back to work. As for Arar himself, something tells me that after a year in prison and a couple of years in and out of courts and inquiries, his skills may be a bit rusty. Of course many people would still hire him but then you'd have to deal with all the nutcases in the company - every company has at least a few and they will be convinced that their lives are in danger with him being around and there will be just no end to it. On top of that the guy looks so depressed and scared that he probably needs a psychiatrist right now more than a job. Anyway, his compensation is less of a concern to me than the fact that the RCMP/CSIS send off Canadians to be tortured overseas. Changing this is worth more than $37 million.

[Charles Anthony]

Why? When a terrorist enters Canada, should we not be able to deport him?

Yes. However, Maher Arar did not get due process. Therefore, condemning him before he is convicted is horrifyingly wrong.

Or should we accept every last person in the world with open arms?

Be reasonable. That is not what is at stake.

Every country should be able to export their undesirables back to where they originate.

Maybe and maybe not. However, that is not the issue. Maher Arar did not get due process.

If I through you into a boiling pit of lava, should we blame the lava if you get burned??????

If the lava was sentient and conciously decided to burn me, yes.

You have your blinders on. I am begging you to see that Canadians did him wrong.

Let me put it a different way: If I threw you into a dangerous situation, I bare some responsibility for what happens to you.

If an RCMP agent lied to cause harm to Arar, then yes, he should be responsible.

We agree.

But I shouldn't held responsible through Canada for what happened to him.

I understand. However, unless you are ready to embrace a free-market justice and punishment system, you have to pay for your socialism.

Alternatively, I can say: every time you vote, you are endorsing the current system. Therefore, you should be held responsible through Canada for what happened to him.

If you still remain a citizen of a country that is known to produce terrorists and encourage violence then you should expect to be held under a higher level of scruntiny.

No. You should not expect that. You should expect to be assumed innocent until proven guilty.

Why would someone hold a Syrian citizenship, of what benefit is it to Arar?

None of your business.

Is he Canadian or Syrian? That quesiton should never have to be asked.

Nor should it. Is your middle name Michael or David?

Arar can focus his lawsuit against anybody who harmed him. Period.

But should you and I pay Arar for what these people did. Their negligence isn't my responsibility.

Do you not want to see your civil servants held in check???

Two things:

1) How else should Maher Arar get recourse???

2) How else should these secret Canadian g-men who have the power to wrongly deport people stay in check???

The government did come to Arar's aid, he was visited regularly by embassy staff that examined him and repeatedly asked about torture. Because Arar didn't say anything until he stood to make a buck doesn't mean the government didn't try.

You do not understand the horror of what torture can be.

Yeah, like after the embassy staff leave, the Syrian guards who are supervising the interview are going to go light on him.

Have some compassion!

Anyway, his compensation is less of a concern to me than the fact that the RCMP/CSIS send off Canadians to be tortured overseas. Changing this is worth more than $37 million.

I agree.

[Figleaf]

What is this all about in a nutshell. I tuned out this issue whenever I heard it on the news over the years.

Was this the guy who got injured on the battlefield in Afgahnistan and came to Canada to get medical care from his injuries?

What's this Arar thing about and why is $37,000,000 of our taxes going to him and his family?

My friend, have you heard of Google?

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Maher+...=cr%3DcountryCA

[Figleaf]

I really doubt he was tortured...

Oh come on. WTF would you know?

[mikedavid00]

I really doubt he was tortured...

Oh come on. WTF would you know?

The cards don't stack in his favor that he was tortured. He simply can't provide the burden of proof.

[M.Dancer]

What is this all about in a nutshell. I tuned out this issue whenever I heard it on the news over the years.

Was this the guy who got injured on the battlefield in Afgahnistan and came to Canada to get medical care from his injuries?

What's this Arar thing about and why is $37,000,000 of our taxes going to him and his family?

You should really get to learn about Google. It will stop you looking silly.

[mikedavid00]

Why? When a terrorist enters Canada, should we not be able to deport him?

Yes. However, Maher Arar did not get due process. Therefore, condemning him before he is convicted is horrifyingly wrong.

He did get due process legally in the US, he was visited many many times while he was in Syria. His wife even got to run for politics. Now he's looking to get rich from Canadians. Leave Arar. Take your family and leave my country.

Every country should be able to export their undesirables back to where they originate.

Maybe and maybe not. However, that is not the issue. Maher Arar did not get due process.

Neither did the imams and families that got deported from the UK after the train bombings who had nothign to do with the bombings. They were even citizens of the UK. They were considered 'undesireables' who were not wanted in the UK for their activities. I feel Arar and his family with ties to Al-Queada more than fit this category.

If I through you into a boiling pit of lava, should we blame the lava if you get burned??????

If the lava was sentient and conciously decided to burn me, yes.

You have your blinders on. I am begging you to see that Canadians did him wrong.

Let me put it a different way: If I threw you into a dangerous situation, I bare some responsibility for what happens to you.

It's up for debate who did the wrong doing. There may be a matter within the RCMP that needs to be investigaed internally, but us as Canadians did him no wrong for the simple fact that he is a born, card holding, CITIZEN of his own country Syria. What about his do you not understand. He is Syrian and that's his homeland.

If an RCMP agent lied to cause harm to Arar, then yes, he should be responsible.[/quote]

We agree.

Yes the RCMP agent did it. So what. They should be fired and lets close this case. I still invite Arar to leave Canada and he should get nothign from this. If he got torchered at home, then he can sue his home country of Syria.

Canada is not here to take on the worlds problems - including people.

If you still remain a citizen of a country that is known to produce terrorists and encourage violence then you should expect to be held under a higher level of scruntiny.

No. You should not expect that. You should expect to be assumed innocent until proven guilty.

He was proven guilty. He had family ties to Al-Queda. He should not be here or in the US in order to protect our security. No exceptions.

Why would someone hold a Syrian citizenship, of what benefit is it to Arar?

None of your business.

It *is* our business. It's our country and a $37,000,000 of our dollars are up for grabs.

Is he Canadian or Syrian? That quesiton should never have to be asked.

Nor should it. Is your middle name Michael or David?

Actually my grandfather converted my name from arabic to english becuase that's what a lot of people did back then. It was called integration. he never went back to Lebannon and helped build the country. These days we have these glob trotters who threaten our security and ruin or social services. We need to stop this.

Arar can focus his lawsuit against anybody who harmed him. Period.

But should you and I pay Arar for what these people did. Their negligence isn't my responsibility.

Do you not want to see your civil servants held in check???

Two things:

1) How else should Maher Arar get recourse???

2) How else should these secret Canadian g-men who have the power to wrongly deport people stay in check???

1- He's not entitled to recourse. He can be expelled and take recourse at his home against Syria. The US didn't cave for his 2 law suits and neither should we.

2 -They should be fired yes, but that's all.

The government did come to Arar's aid, he was visited regularly by embassy staff that examined him and repeatedly asked about torture. Because Arar didn't say anything until he stood to make a buck doesn't mean the government didn't try.

You do not understand the horror of what torture can be.

Yeah, like after the embassy staff leave, the Syrian guards who are supervising the interview are going to go light on him.

Have some compassion!

Yeah the Canadian compassion that we're known for. Letting arar come here, use services to get his education and wife in the country, take Canadian jobs, and then give him $37,000,000. He can go back home. We (the common working person who aren't political hacks) don't want him here for this reason. As Blair says, we are now being taken advantage of.

[jdobbin]

The cards don't stack in his favor that he was tortured. He simply can't provide the burden of proof.

You wouldn't care if he was anyways.

[Figleaf]

Oh so basically a fundamentalist with dual citiizenship plays with heat, gets him self accidently on fire, and now $37,000,000 of our tax dollars is going to make him and his family rich so Harper can by votes from the Islamic community.

Ummm, no -- An innocent Canadian gets smeared by the RCMP, reditioned to torture by the US, tortured in Syria and some amount of our tax money (probably less than $37M) will go to him to atone for the mistakes our police made.

Sometiems things make me angry but it's rare. This makes me real angry.

Yes, the people responsible should be identified and chastised.

We should have got him, his brothers, his sister, his mother, his father, his grandparents, and his children, wife, other wife, and distant cousins and GET THEM THE HELL OUT OF OUR COUNTRY.

? Why?

[mikedavid00]

The cards don't stack in his favor that he was tortured. He simply can't provide the burden of proof.

You wouldn't care if he was anyways.

Of course I don't care if he was beaten. I really don't care about him and want him our of my country.

[Figleaf]

The cards don't stack in his favor that he was tortured. He simply can't provide the burden of proof.

You wouldn't care if he was anyways.

Of course I don't care if he was beaten. I really don't care about him and want him our of my country.

Do you want me out of 'your' country too?

[Black Dog]

He did get due process legally in the US,

Was he charged? Tried?

It's up for debate who did the wrong doing. There may be a matter within the RCMP that needs to be investigaed internally, but us as Canadians did him no wrong for the simple fact that he is a born, card holding, CITIZEN of his own country Syria. What about his do you not understand. He is Syrian and that's his homeland.

He is also a Canadian citizen, who was detained while carrying a Candian passport. That makes him as Canadian as you or I.

He was proven guilty. He had family ties to Al-Queda. He should not be here or in the US in order to protect our security. No exceptions.

He wasn't charged and did not go to trial. So on what basis do you say he is guilty? guilty of what?

[jdobbin]

Of course I don't care if he was beaten. I really don't care about him and want him our of my country.

Your compassion is quite stirring.

I have the same feeling about you. Thankfully, there is an ignore button here that I'll activate now.

Perhaps with no one to respond to here you will let your rage fester impotently. If not, seek help.

[mikedavid00]

Of course I don't care if he was beaten. I really don't care about him and want him our of my country.

Your compassion is quite stirring.

I have the same feeling about you. Thankfully, there is an ignore button here that I'll activate now.

Perhaps with no one to respond to here you will let your rage fester impotently. If not, seek help.

It's quite ok to let Canadians die on waiting lists. It's ok to fund Arar and make his dreams come true as he uses our loans and services and snatches up precious white collar Canadian jobs.

And I excersise my opinion that I want him out of my country and I get ignored and reported on this forum.

You guys feel *soooo* strongly on this opertunist and his well being but forget about the Canadian who built this country so he can come here and enjoy what we worked for.

Now he's goign to be rich living a lavish life off tax payers money and you support him and his dreams and his life along with his family that have proven tie to AL-Queda who KILLED Canadians on 9-11. This self hating attitude is sickening and destructive..

Go ahead and support them, but you are part of the problem that we have in this country: you have NO nationality or pride in our country. You couldn't care less what happens to true Canadians and you fail to see the bigger picture of his lawsuit.

(Atleast Tony Blair admitted that the generosity of the British is being taken advantage of and taken for granted. Unfortunately, the Trudeau Kool-Aid has been drunken for to long by too many Canadians).

[M.Dancer]

And I excersise my opinion that I want him out of my country and I get ignored and reported on this forum

.

Well if we are making a list of Canadians we want out........

[mikedavid00]

And I excersise my opinion that I want him out of my country and I get ignored and reported on this forum

.

Well if we are making a list of Canadians we want out........

Well I respect your opinion that you want me out. I don't messege moderators or press ignore buttons. It's your right to an opinion.

But that's a sign of the bigger picture, you would EASILY throw out a Canadian who paid into services all his life. Who helped build this country, who's grandfather served in World War 2... all becuase you don't agree with my nationalistic stance on our country.

Instead, you give your preferance to an oppertunist who has come here to live his dreams, use our studen loan services, has family ties with Al-Quada, sue our own Gov't an obsurd amount to become a multi-millionair, and someone who has still not denounced his Syrian citizenship.

[Black Dog]

It's quite ok to let Canadians die on waiting lists. It's ok to fund Arar and make his dreams come true as he uses our loans and services and snatches up precious white collar Canadian jobs.

False dichotomy. I belive its wrong to let Canadians die on waiting list and that it is also wrong to allow Caandians to be tortured in other countries.

And I excersise my opinion that I want him out of my country and I get ignored and reported on this forum.

Has it occurred to you that you have no more claim to this country than anyone else, including a fellow citizen like Maher Arar?

You guys feel *soooo* strongly on this opertunist and his well being but forget about the Canadian who built this country so he can come here and enjoy what we worked for.

Another false dilemna.

Now he's goign to be rich living a lavish life off tax payers money and you support him and his dreams and his life along with his family that have proven tie to AL-Queda who KILLED Canadians on 9-11. This self hating attitude is sickening and destructive..

This is just false. There's no proven links between Arar and Al Qaeda.

Go ahead and support them, but you are part of the problem that we have in this country: you have NO nationality or pride in our country. You couldn't care less what happens to true Canadians and you fail to see the bigger picture of his lawsuit.

So here's a guy who came to this country as a young man to escape life under tyrrany, worked his way to become a tax-paying and gainfully employed member of society, who's never been charged with a crime, who was detained without charge, tortured, denied due process of law, and scarred for life based on nothing more than heresay and you have the nerve to question the patriotism and integrity of anyone who looks at this situation and finds it appalling?