Rioters sentanced

[blueblood]

The boys got sentanced, oh well I can at least say this is one time I'm happy a liberal minded judge was on the bench.

CBC

[Drea]

Oh Goody!

Vigilante justice.

Whoooo hooo -- I can hardly wait to go all "cop" on those sonofab teenagers I see -- you know, the ones with attitude, that (even though they've never been charged or arrested) I know, I KNOW that they have done drugs.

I say burn 'em all! Whoooooo hoooooooooo!

[guyser]

Will you be that happy when someone mistakes your house for the "other " one?

Nope didn't think so.

Go ahead, crack open your bubbly. We won't do the same when your house burns down.

[blueblood]

Will you be that happy when someone mistakes your house for the "other " one?

Nope didn't think so.

Go ahead, crack open your bubbly. We won't do the same when your house burns down.

This is part of the whole small town culture, im willing to bet the farm that there was a crack grow op going on in there, its very hard to get away with anything like that in a small town without anyone knowing about it. Someone got first hand knowledge and spread it all over town, in a town where everyone knows everyone, and that this was a long time coming, they won't be making a mistake like that. For townspeople to be mad enough to resort to burning down the house and impeding justice means there was a huge problem that the police couldn't do anything about due to their hands being tied because of proper procedure.

[Charles Anthony]

Discussed here:

Vigilante justice -- drug house burned by local residents

[jbg]

My views on subject.

[jdobbin]

My views on subject.

And my view was that the lynch mob is likely to kill someone like a firefighter. You see okay with that though.

[jbg]

My views on subject.

And my view was that the lynch mob is likely to kill someone like a firefighter. You see okay with that though.

No. My view is that if the police don't maintain order, someone will.

[jdobbin]

No. My view is that if the police don't maintain order, someone will.

And someone innocent could die.

So who do you charge then? Or do the do-gooders get a pass because they were fighting crime?

[geoffrey]

No. My view is that if the police don't maintain order, someone will.

And someone innocent could die.

So who do you charge then? Or do the do-gooders get a pass because they were fighting crime?

It's tough dobbin... I'm normally pretty strongly against vigilantism, but if your neighbours were crack dealers and selling to kids on your street, and the police refused to act... would you be able to just say, 'oh well, I'll just live with it?"

[guyser]

This is part of the whole small town culture, im willing to bet the farm that there was a crack grow op going on in there, its very hard to get away with anything like that in a small town without anyone knowing about it. Someone got first hand knowledge and spread it all over town, in a town where everyone knows everyone, and that this was a long time coming, they won't be making a mistake like that. For townspeople to be mad enough to resort to burning down the house and impeding justice means there was a huge problem that the police couldn't do anything about due to their hands being tied because of proper procedure.

So because it is a small town it is okay? And if you "bet the farm" then perhaps the cops knew about it and were amassing their evidence to get a conviction.

In this country there is due process.

But I guess in small towns that is suspended. And small town people wonder why they are called hicks.

[reffric]

Citizens do have the right to try and make their neighbourhoods and towns a safe place to live. That being said, they are also responsible for their actions. If they commit a crime in an attempt to eliminate a problem they see in the area, then they are responsible for their actions and get their day in court just like any other person who brakes the law.

I'm hoping that the people tried a few things like phoning the police, addressing town council or maybe even addressing the person in question before burning down the house.

[jbg]

I'm hoping that the people tried a few things like phoning the police, addressing town council or maybe even addressing the person in question before burning down the house.

I would assume they learned by experience that banging your head against the wall hurts. This New York Times article (link), excerpted below, highlights the total indifference, and likely corruption, of authorities when it comes to resolving the very real problems that drugs create:

December 5, 2006

In Glittery Atlantic City, 4 Walked Deadly Path

By DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI and SERGE F. KOVALESKI

ATLANTIC CITY, Dec. 3 — In this seaside resort town where vice has long been a lucrative commodity, there was nothing particularly noteworthy about four crack-addled prostitutes who lost the struggle to survive in the underground economy that flourishes alongside the shimmering casinos.

Only two of the women had even been reported missing before their decayed bodies were found in a drainage ditch on the outskirts of town three days before Thanksgiving.

“Sometimes you don’t see a girl for a few weeks, but that’s the way it is,” said Zandra Kiesel, 32, who says she has been a prostitute here for five years. “We are just hookers. It’s like nobody would miss us if we were gone.”

********

That economy has evolved into a two-tiered system catering to the addicted. Inside the casinos, where prostitutes work the sprawling halls, betting is legal and the state has even exempted gamblers from its indoor smoking ban. On the sketchy streets outside, sex and drugs are sold openly, around the clock, as dozens of prostitutes prowl the avenues and side streets just off the Boardwalk offering sexual encounters for as little as $10 — the price of a rock of crack cocaine and a five-minute high.

********

Local lore has long been that the Police Department takes a laissez-faire attitude toward prostitution. A lawsuit settled this year bolstered that notion: the city agreed to pay an undisclosed amount to a former vice-squad detective who claimed he was demoted in 2001 for defying a directive by the police chief at the time to stop arresting streetwalkers. The city’s current chief, John Mooney, declined to discuss the suit, but in the court file, officials never refute the contention that police commanders had disbanded the department’s prostitution unit and discouraged arrests.

In court papers, the detective’s lawyer put it bluntly: “They gave the green light to the red-light district.”

****************

Back to the Status Quo

In the two weeks since the discovery of the four dead women, life here has largely returned to the sensory overload that is Atlantic City’s status quo. Busloads of tourists stream off the highways and head straight for the casinos, passing the swath of land where the bodies were found, as prostitutes and drug dealers do business in plain sight.

Local buzz quickly turned from concern over a serial killer roaming the streets to claims by a radio talk show host that she had been given a videotape of a city councilman receiving oral sex from a prostitute on the Boardwalk.

“It is important that business now gets engaged in seeking solutions,” said Joseph Kelly, president of the Atlantic City Regional Mainland Chamber of Commerce, though he acknowledged that “the business community doesn’t have an existing plan.”

Mayor Robert W. Levy has said little about the killings and even less about the city’s approach to enforcing vice laws. Reached at his home Saturday night, he emphatically declined to discuss Atlantic City’s prostitution and drug problems.

“This is my home, this is my night, this is my weekend,” Mr. Levy shouted. “I just came home from a funeral. I got nothing to say about nothing.”

[jdobbin]

It's tough dobbin... I'm normally pretty strongly against vigilantism, but if your neighbours were crack dealers and selling to kids on your street, and the police refused to act... would you be able to just say, 'oh well, I'll just live with it?"

I go higher up the food chain of either cops or politicians.

Just as effective might have been a videotape handed to local news.

One dead firefighter and you would be agreeing with me on this. Trust me on that. I have a lot more sympathy for a firefighter who puts his life on the line than someone out for vigilante justice.

[Argus]

No. My view is that if the police don't maintain order, someone will.

And someone innocent could die.

So who do you charge then? Or do the do-gooders get a pass because they were fighting crime?

I agree with jbg. Vigilantes only arise where the law is incapable of dealing with problems. The law in Canada is so concerned with the rights and feelings and well-being of criminals that it bends over backwards to protect them. The law is incompetent and its administration is disgraceful.

Someone innocent could die? It happens every day, and the law does nothing about it.

That's why vigilantes arise.

[Argus]

This is part of the whole small town culture, im willing to bet the farm that there was a crack grow op going on in there, its very hard to get away with anything like that in a small town without anyone knowing about it. Someone got first hand knowledge and spread it all over town, in a town where everyone knows everyone, and that this was a long time coming, they won't be making a mistake like that. For townspeople to be mad enough to resort to burning down the house and impeding justice means there was a huge problem that the police couldn't do anything about due to their hands being tied because of proper procedure.

So because it is a small town it is okay? And if you "bet the farm" then perhaps the cops knew about it and were amassing their evidence to get a conviction.

In this country there is due process.

That is the view of lawyers - the most disrespected profession in Canada.

What ordinary people want is justice. When the "due process" fails to produce justice ordinary people will turn away from it.

But I guess in small towns that is suspended. And small town people wonder why they are called hicks.

Naw, only really stupid, ignorant people call small town people hicks.

[blueblood]

This is part of the whole small town culture, im willing to bet the farm that there was a crack grow op going on in there, its very hard to get away with anything like that in a small town without anyone knowing about it. Someone got first hand knowledge and spread it all over town, in a town where everyone knows everyone, and that this was a long time coming, they won't be making a mistake like that. For townspeople to be mad enough to resort to burning down the house and impeding justice means there was a huge problem that the police couldn't do anything about due to their hands being tied because of proper procedure.

So because it is a small town it is okay? And if you "bet the farm" then perhaps the cops knew about it and were amassing their evidence to get a conviction.

In this country there is due process.

But I guess in small towns that is suspended. And small town people wonder why they are called hicks.

In that case it was an effecient process, that is one less crack house in town. Why are the rights of the criminal more important than the right to a safe society. This wasn't something done on a whim, you have to remember that your average small town person also has a conscience too, the last thing anyone wants to do is burn down the wrong house, you also have to remember everybody knows everybody and there was even a town meeting on this, it's safe to say that guy was a crack dealer. The cops have that due process you talk about and that takes time. It's not like the townspeople are doing it to anyone they don't like, they saw a problem that the cops hands were tied and solved it.

[jdobbin]

I agree with jbg. Vigilantes only arise where the law is incapable of dealing with problems. The law in Canada is so concerned with the rights and feelings and well-being of criminals that it bends over backwards to protect them. The law is incompetent and its administration is disgraceful.

Someone innocent could die? It happens every day, and the law does nothing about it.

That's why vigilantes arise.

Vigilantes responsible for a firefighter's death would likely change most people sympathies.

[Argus]

I agree with jbg. Vigilantes only arise where the law is incapable of dealing with problems. The law in Canada is so concerned with the rights and feelings and well-being of criminals that it bends over backwards to protect them. The law is incompetent and its administration is disgraceful.

Someone innocent could die? It happens every day, and the law does nothing about it.

That's why vigilantes arise.

Vigilantes responsible for a firefighter's death would likely change most people sympathies.

You get back to me when that happens.

[jdobbin]

You get back to me when that happens.

Vigilantes have hanged plenty of innocent people. That native boy from British Columbia is one example.

Today's vigilantes might not kill but the judge in this case has to judge based on the possible danger to people like firefighters who are in danger when anyone sets a fire.

[blueblood]

You get back to me when that happens.

Vigilantes have hanged plenty of innocent people. That native boy from British Columbia is one example.

Today's vigilantes might not kill but the judge in this case has to judge based on the possible danger to people like firefighters who are in danger when anyone sets a fire.

Well that depends, in my view a vigilante is out for justice, and a lynch mob just caters to themselves. your native boy is what i call an example of a lynch mob and their racist policies which is WRONG, the crack house is what i call justice, the whole town saw a problem and solved it. It is a fine line and if i can quote a line from the movie Spiderman "...with great power comes great responsibility"

[Argus]

You get back to me when that happens.

Vigilantes have hanged plenty of innocent people. That native boy from British Columbia is one example.

The law has hanged plenty of innocent people, too.

Today's vigilantes might not kill but the judge in this case has to judge based on the possible danger to people like firefighters who are in danger when anyone sets a fire.

What about the danger to people of unrestrainted drug sales and violence?

[B. Max]

My views on subject.

And my view was that the lynch mob is likely to kill someone like a firefighter. You see okay with that though.

Just like a liberal, try and save a drug house by putting out the fire.

[jdobbin]

Just like a liberal, try and save a drug house by putting out the fire.

Just like a right winger. Kill the innocent while trying to do the right thing.

[jdobbin]

The law has hanged plenty of innocent people, too.

What about the danger to people of unrestrainted drug sales and violence?

The people responsible for the hanging should the face the same punishment.

Keeping going up the food chain until you do get the right authorities to act.

Just because someone doesn't like abortion doesn't mean they should find a doctor who does them and act as judge, jury and executioner. Or is that okay too? What type of vigilanteeism is okay and what is not?