Five bucks to vote for President of Alberta

[fellowtraveller]

Which is more democratic and egalitarian?

$5 and anybody can vote for the leader of the party?

Or months of sucking up to everybody locally to get elected as a delegate, then being obliged to spend a few thousand bucks flying to Montreal?

[Slavik44]

Which is more democratic and egalitarian?

$5 and anybody can vote for the leader of the party?

Or months of sucking up to everybody locally to get elected as a delegate, then being obliged to spend a few thousand bucks flying to Montreal?

Which ever one Alberta Supports is the undemocratic one

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Anyways its a party leadership race, not a provincial election...it just so happens that the party leader will become Premier. You really aren't even being charged to vote, you are being charged to join the party, becuase only party members can elect a leader of a party...very complex I really don't see the issue.

[Saturn]

Which is more democratic and egalitarian?

$5 and anybody can vote for the leader of the party?

Or months of sucking up to everybody locally to get elected as a delegate, then being obliged to spend a few thousand bucks flying to Montreal?

Which ever one Alberta Supports is the undemocratic one

--------------------------

Anyways its a party leadership race, not a provincial election...it just so happens that the party leader will become Premier. You really aren't even being charged to vote, you are being charged to join the party, becuase only party members can elect a leader of a party...very complex I really don't see the issue.

Seems to me that this really is a presidential election and anyone who wants to have a say in who the next president gets to be has to make a donation to the PC party - this sounds like extortion more than anything else. I mean, if 5 years ago you went to vote in a federal election and you had to make a $5 donation to the Liberal party in order to be allowed to vote, you would have been PO'd, no? If I lived in Alberta, I would definitely want to vote for the premier but I would hate to give the PC party even a penny.

[Borg]

What if you don't have a spare five bucks to vote for the leader of your government? I guess if you want to disenfranchise poor people, it's a good way to do it.

Take a walk along any road for an hour and pick up a few bottles - if you are so serious about getting 5 bucks together you will do it. Otherwise those who are not interested will sit at home.

Otherwise sounds like whining to me.

Borg

[BubberMiley]

Take a walk along any road for an hour and pick up a few bottles - if you are so serious about getting 5 bucks together you will do it. Otherwise those who are not interested will sit at home.

You still have refundable bottles in Alberta? I haven't seen those since the 1970s, other than beer bottles.

[geoffrey]

Take a walk along any road for an hour and pick up a few bottles - if you are so serious about getting 5 bucks together you will do it. Otherwise those who are not interested will sit at home.

You still have refundable bottles in Alberta? I haven't seen those since the 1970s, other than beer bottles.

Ya, it's because we're a green province!!

I don't what all the whining is about. If you don't like the PC monopoly in government here, vote for someone else. You have no one to blame to this but yourselves.

[Canadian Blue]

Seems to me that this really is a presidential election and anyone who wants to have a say in who the next president gets to be has to make a donation to the PC party - this sounds like extortion more than anything else. I mean, if 5 years ago you went to vote in a federal election and you had to make a $5 donation to the Liberal party in order to be allowed to vote, you would have been PO'd, no? If I lived in Alberta, I would definitely want to vote for the premier but I would hate to give the PC party even a penny.

It's a party leadership race, would the Liberal's ever give every person in Canada the right to vote because they think their the "natural governing party".

When I was back home we had bottle depots for people to recycle. Alberta's probably greener than Ontario.

[geoffrey]

It's a party leadership race, would the Liberal's ever give every person in Canada the right to vote because they think their the "natural governing party".

When I was back home we had bottle depots for people to recycle. Alberta's probably greener than Ontario.

Oh we are far greener. We're the leader in the western world for wind production (despite recent finds that wind is, yet again, not really that green at the end of the day). Recycling is huge here... and it's not even convienient... we don't have household pickup for recycling.

But don't believe me, just believe the media that paints Alberta as the pollution sleeze of the world. Funny how we had hmm, zero smog days last year.

[Black Dog]

Sure it does. The opposition parties have no one to blame but themselves. It's not a one-party state. It's a one-party success. People will vote for alternatives if they are given them.

Bwahahahaha!!!!

Stay out of our party hooligan Liberals!!!!!! Just because you can't get your party elected doesn't mean that you can skew our leadership results.

Sure it does. Anyone with $5 can vote. Don't like it, change it.

I opted not to vote because I didn't feel I needed to fatten the Tories' swelling coffers any more. Instead, I'll donate that money to the Liberals and NDs. The whole thing reeked of third-world politics.

[geoffrey]

Sure it does. The opposition parties have no one to blame but themselves. It's not a one-party state. It's a one-party success. People will vote for alternatives if they are given them.

Bwahahahaha!!!!

That's like saying those in Toronto live in a one party state because they only vote liberal. It's actually because the Tories don't appeal to them. If the Liberals appealed to Albertans, people would vote for them. But they don't, and that's why the PC's are in power, because they appeal to more people than the Liberals.

I really don't know how you can blame the PC's for the Liberals lack of appeal to pretty much anyone outside of Edmonton and the poor areas of Calgary?

Stay out of our party hooligan Liberals!!!!!! Just because you can't get your party elected doesn't mean that you can skew our leadership results.

Sure it does. Anyone with $5 can vote. Don't like it, change it.

I opted not to vote because I didn't feel I needed to fatten the Tories' swelling coffers any more. Instead, I'll donate that money to the Liberals and NDs. The whole thing reeked of third-world politics.

Because your party(ies) still has/have no chance of winning?

[Canadian Blue]

Yeah, if only we had the same green environmentally friendly attitude that Toronto has, then Alberta would be free of pollution!!!

If you didn't notice I was being sarcastic.

[stignasty]

Because your party(ies) still has/have no chance of winning?

There's no question that the progressive Conservatives are a lock to win the next election. However, I have talked to a few people, (even some dyed in the wool party loyalists) who were put off by the "election" process. Anecdotal as that is, it may translate into a movement for an opposition. I'd be happy with that after the next election.

[punked]

Seems to me that this really is a presidential election and anyone who wants to have a say in who the next president gets to be has to make a donation to the PC party - this sounds like extortion more than anything else. I mean, if 5 years ago you went to vote in a federal election and you had to make a $5 donation to the Liberal party in order to be allowed to vote, you would have been PO'd, no? If I lived in Alberta, I would definitely want to vote for the premier but I would hate to give the PC party even a penny.

It's a party leadership race, would the Liberal's ever give every person in Canada the right to vote because they think their the "natural governing party".

When I was back home we had bottle depots for people to recycle. Alberta's probably greener than Ontario.

Yah with oil sands production plants in Alberta being allowed to put out a maxium of polluatants which is more than Nova Scotia power one would wonder why Alberta is seen as non green. Oh its becuase two oil sands companies are allowed to put out more polluants than a whole provinces power supplying industry.

[Black Dog]

That's like saying those in Toronto live in a one party state because they only vote liberal. It's actually because the Tories don't appeal to them. If the Liberals appealed to Albertans, people would vote for them. But they don't, and that's why the PC's are in power, because they appeal to more people than the Liberals.

I really don't know how you can blame the PC's for the Liberals lack of appeal to pretty much anyone outside of Edmonton and the poor areas of Calgary?

I can't tell if you're being deliberately disingenuous here or are really so naive. The Tory machinery has become entrenched at every level in the province to the point where membership in PC's is almost a prerequsiste for any advancement in the upper levels of the political business, and even social world. Cronyism and patronage are rampant. Oppossition parties have been marginalized, starved of funds and pushed out of the process of governance so that they are unable to establish themselves as an alternative for the ever-shrinking numbers of Albertans who bother to vote (partly due to the complacency that sets in when times are good, but also because the Tories have made it damn clear that they are the only game in town.Even if that means redrawing the maps to bleed votes from strong oposition districts and hand them to rural Tory strongholds) There's been a deliberate effort on the part of the Tories to ensure permenant PC majority in this province. But you're not from here so it's not like you can have that much of an understanding of how things are and why.

Because your party(ies) still has/have no chance of winning?

Hmmm. You boast about how great and democratic the process is, then cry about it when people take advantage of the process to sink your pick. You attest to the health of Alberta's democracy, but clearly sneer at the idea that any one else can or should run the show (or indeed, should even get a chance to play the game). Other than yourself and the Party, what are you actually for, comrade?

[geoffrey]

But you're not from here so it's not like you can have that much of an understanding of how things are and why.

I've lived here a long time now BD. I understand your frustrations, but it's not the PC's fault that no other party appeals to the voters. That's what it comes down to. People vote for who they like. More people in Alberta like PC's. What else is there to it?

It takes 35+% to get a majority in Ottawa, the PC's get 45+% of the popular vote each time in Alberta. It's not like there is that much gerrymandering happening. Even with proportional rep we'd still see majority governments in Alberta.

Alberta is a PC province, that is the party that people actually agree with. It's unfortunate there is no crediable opposition, but it wouldn't change things much. Everyone likes the PC ideology. That is the bottom line. If you want the Liberals to win, they have to change to the PC way. No other way.

Because your party(ies) still has/have no chance of winning?

Hmmm. You boast about how great and democratic the process is, then cry about it when people take advantage of the process to sink your pick. You attest to the health of Alberta's democracy, but clearly sneer at the idea that any one else can or should run the show (or indeed, should even get a chance to play the game). Other than yourself and the Party, what are you actually for, comrade?

I'm only for myself, comrade. I switch parties like I do socks, whichever one fits the best when I need to put on a pair.

I have no problem with the Liberals getting elected in Alberta, but they don't appeal to anyone, so they won't. That's no reason to dilute the PC party. If the Liberals were smart, and believed in themselves, they'd encourage everyone to vote for Morton, polarise the debate and say, "HEY!!!! WAKE UP!!! We're the moderates!!!" Instead, they influenced the PC party to bring in a more Liberal-ish candidate. So now they're going to lose again. A similar PC and Liberal party will have the PC's winning each and everytime.

The only way the Liberals are going to win is if the PC's go further right. Bottom line.

[stignasty]

I have talked to a few people who were put off by the election process. You're right though, it's not enough to swing any kind of balance of power. Like I said before, I would be happy with a decent opposition.

What's Ed's position on prosperity cheques? I could use another trip to Disneyland.

[Black Dog]

've lived here a long time now BD. I understand your frustrations, but it's not the PC's fault that no other party appeals to the voters. That's what it comes down to. People vote for who they like. More people in Alberta like PC's. What else is there to it?

Did you not read what I just wrote? Christ, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Alberta is a PC province, that is the party that people actually agree with. It's unfortunate there is no crediable opposition, but it wouldn't change things much. Everyone likes the PC ideology. That is the bottom line. If you want the Liberals to win, they have to change to the PC way. No other way.

I don't by it and I've explained why.

I'm only for myself, comrade. I switch parties like I do socks, whichever one fits the best when I need to put on a pair.

I have no problem with the Liberals getting elected in Alberta, but they don't appeal to anyone, so they won't. That's no reason to dilute the PC party. If the Liberals were smart, and believed in themselves, they'd encourage everyone to vote for Morton, polarise the debate and say, "HEY!!!! WAKE UP!!! We're the moderates!!!" Instead, they influenced the PC party to bring in a more Liberal-ish candidate. So now they're going to lose again. A similar PC and Liberal party will have the PC's winning each and everytime.

So the Liberals can't win if they cghang eto the PC way. Yet the only way the Liberals can win is to change to the PC way. Your self- contradiction (in the same post, no less!) betrays the vacuity of your argument.

[geoffrey]

What don't you get BD? ALBERTANS AREN'T LIBERALS!

Bottom line. I can't make it anymore clear.

When Albertans become Liberals, they'll vote Liberal. They are conservatives though so they vote PC.

What else is there too it? Can you not grasp this basic concept?

[Black Dog]

What don't you get BD? ALBERTANS AREN'T LIBERALS!

Bottom line. I can't make it anymore clear.

First: why the shouting? Do you think that will make your simplistic analysis more palatable?

I'm actually quite torn over how to respond to this. On the one hand, I want to say that "party affiliation is not a inherent characteristic like race." Which is what you are implying here. On the other hand, if you are right, you're simply confirming what I've said about Albertans in the past: that their beloved "maverick individualist" self-image is a load of hooey. Albertans are actually so conformist and so self-deluded that they will vote for a party that calls itself conservative (whether it is or not) in order to confoirm their own self-identification as conservative (whether they are or not).

I've pointed out the systemic way in which the PCs have undermined oppossition and the democratic process itself in order to cement their status, and you've patently ignored it all, so what the hell. If you want to cling to tropes, that's up to you.

[rbacon]

Actually Trudeau The Great Leader did more to bolster the Tories and Conservative Party support in Alberta when he brought in the Marxist NEP program and destroyed Alberta's economy, than anything the PC's did.....Albertan's hate Liberals to this day for that gross injustice.......