According to Chinese officials,

[hiti]

Canadian diplomacy taking tougher approach: Harper

Last Updated: Sunday, November 19, 2006 | 6:51 PM ET

CBC News

Talks with Chinese President Hu Jintao at the Asia Pacific summit in Hanoi illustrate Canada's new, tougher style of diplomacy, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Sunday.

But a spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry said Harper and Hu had spoken only briefly, and issues such as human rights were not raised.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/11/19/celil-harper.html

I can't believe the lies and hypocrisies of this PM. He has shamed Canada internationally.

I'll bet there never was a "China snub" and the meeting was set before Hapless left Canada but this shameful PM had to play political games. China NEVER EVER said that they were not meeting with Canada.

[Canadian Blue]

From the article.

Family welcomes talks

Those working for Celil's release welcomed Harper's talks with Hu.

Chris MacLeod, a lawyer representing his family,said Harper's commitment to address the issue with Hu shows Canada won't tolerate China's disregard for international law or its poor treatment of Canadian citizens.

"I was very pleased to see the prime minister raise the case and stand up for Canada when they're being pushed around abroad," MacLeod said Sunday in Toronto.

"We raised issues very generally, very briefly," the prime minister told reporters after the summit's closing ceremonies, "It was a 15-minute discussion. We were able to raise a couple of issues specifically, but obviously we didn't have a full, in-depth discussion of every issue."

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao was more categorical: He said human rights had not been discussed.

"I don't know who raised those issues," Liu told Canadian reporters. "No, no, I don't think that human rights were raised during the meeting."

Confirming that Celil's case had been raised, Liu repeated China's contention that the Burlington, Ont. man, who came to Canada as a refugee, is a Chinese citizen.

No doubt, what a shameful PM........

[Argus]

I can't believe the lies and hypocrisies of this PM. He has shamed Canada internationally.

I'll bet there never was a "China snub" and the meeting was set before Hapless left Canada but this shameful PM had to play political games. China NEVER EVER said that they were not meeting with Canada.

Nice, so you believe the murderous Communist Chinese rather than Harper. Harper is simply THAT evil. He's worse than mass murderers!

Because, after all, he only believes in gay civil unions and not marriage.

And it was CHINA that announced it was calling off the meeting. Or do you imagine Harper somehow made them do it?

[Charles Anthony]

I can't believe the lies and hypocrisies of this PM. He has shamed Canada internationally.

Oh really? Let us put things in perspective.

I am with Argus on this one.

Chinese diplomat sent packing; Harper meeting still up in air

BRIAN LAGHI

Hanoi — The federal government has forced out of Canada a Chinese diplomat amid reports that he was spying on Falun Gong members while working for the Chinese embassy.

Officials confirmed the move Friday as Canada and China are embroiled in controversy over an on-again, off-again meeting between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Chinese President Hu Jintao.

Sandra Buckler, a spokesperson for the prime minister, said that the government recently refused to extend the visa of Wang Pengfei, an embassy official. Although she would not say why, a report from the Epoch Times, a newspaper that reports extensively on persecutions in China -- especially of Falun Gong practitioners -- said Mr. Wang had been gathering information on Canadians of Chinese descent who take part in the meditative practice.

She would not say whether the matter played a role in the cancellation of a meeting between Mr. Harper and Mr. Hu.

The Chinese have since said they would like to have a meeting, but also vowed to oppose any “irresponsible” interference in its internal affairs.

Earlier this week, Mr. Harper said he too was interested in meeting Mr. Hu, but that he would not “sell out” on the issue of human rights for the “almighty dollar.”

China has branded Falun Gong an evil cult and is seen by officials as a threat to Communist rule.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...7/BNStory/Front

So..... I suppose the Chinese government considers spying on Canadians to be "responsible" interference in Canada's internal affairs....????

[kimmy]

"I don't know who raised those issues," Liu told Canadian reporters. "No, no, I don't think that human rights were raised during the meeting."

Confirming that Celil's case had been raised, Liu repeated China's contention that the Burlington, Ont. man, who came to Canada as a refugee, is a Chinese citizen.

Since Celil's case was the source of this controversy in the first place, and since the Chinese diplomat confirms that Harper raised, we can consider this Case Closed, yes?

So..... I suppose the Chinese government considers spying on Canadians to be "responsible" interference in Canada's internal affairs....????

Mixed feelings. Yeah, the Chinese shouldn't be oppressing Falun Gong people or spying on Canadians, but ... I do feel just a twinge of jealousy that we can't do something like that with Scientologists....

-k

[Cameron]

was set before Hapless left Canada but this shameful PM had to play political games.

Would you like me to put the rules in phonetics for you?

2) Are you really going to believe the Chinese? A COMMUNIST government....okieee. You don't like Canada. They are many flights a day out of Toronto and Vancouver.

[Mimas]

Ok, Harper asked about the Canadian among numerous other issues in a short, 15-minute meeting. I don't see this as a discussion on human rights in any way. All of Harper's posturing was meant for the people at home and not for the Chinese. He would never even think of lecturing the Chinese on human rights.

[geoffrey]

Ok, Harper asked about the Canadian among numerous other issues in a short, 15-minute meeting. I don't see this as a discussion on human rights in any way. All of Harper's posturing was meant for the people at home and not for the Chinese. He would never even think of lecturing the Chinese on human rights.

Why not? They are huge abusers and in the international spotlight right now for a few reasons. The Olympics being one of them... the spy scandals another.

The communist Chinese have a notorious record of oppression and violence against their own. I don't think our PM should hold back in criticism of the Chinese. It's not like they can do anything, they need our coal and oil. Making improvements in human rights a condition of export (wouldn't have to be really, just the threat would go a long way) of such materials would be a huge first step in guarnteeing some freedom to the Chinese, maybe even a step towards the end of communism there.

And if they said screw your oil, we'll just sell it elsewhere, it's not like there aren't other markets.

[Canadian Blue]

QUOTE(hiti @ Nov 20 2006, 03:17 AM)

was set before Hapless left Canada but this shameful PM had to play political games.

Would you like me to put the rules in phonetics for you?

2) Are you really going to believe the Chinese? A COMMUNIST government....okieee. You don't like Canada. They are many flights a day out of Toronto and Vancouver.

"Mr Burns I think we can trust the president of Cuba!". Ha

Ok, Harper asked about the Canadian among numerous other issues in a short, 15-minute meeting. I don't see this as a discussion on human rights in any way. All of Harper's posturing was meant for the people at home and not for the Chinese. He would never even think of lecturing the Chinese on human rights.

Apparently he had in the media.

[Figleaf]

The Chinese are handing Canada's 'new Conservative government' its diplomatic ass.

[Argus]

The Chinese are handing Canada's 'new Conservative government' its diplomatic ass.

Right, sure. Just like I said, those on the left so hate Harper that if it was him or Satan they'd choose Satan.

[scribblet]

As in the stereotypical Harper = Bush diatribes, the majority of these anti Harper rants are designed strictly for polemic purposes. It wouldn't matter what Harper did, it would be wrong.

Black is white - up is down.

[Mimas]

Ok, Harper asked about the Canadian among numerous other issues in a short, 15-minute meeting. I don't see this as a discussion on human rights in any way. All of Harper's posturing was meant for the people at home and not for the Chinese. He would never even think of lecturing the Chinese on human rights.

Why not? They are huge abusers and in the international spotlight right now for a few reasons. The Olympics being one of them... the spy scandals another.

The communist Chinese have a notorious record of oppression and violence against their own. I don't think our PM should hold back in criticism of the Chinese. It's not like they can do anything, they need our coal and oil. Making improvements in human rights a condition of export (wouldn't have to be really, just the threat would go a long way) of such materials would be a huge first step in guarnteeing some freedom to the Chinese, maybe even a step towards the end of communism there.

And if they said screw your oil, we'll just sell it elsewhere, it's not like there aren't other markets.

The Chinese have always been that way. But we've allowed them to be our biggest supplier after the US. Just check where things are made next time you go shopping. Tens of billions of our dollars go to China every year, sponsoring the communist regime. We are bending over trying to sell them our oil, nuclear power reactors, etc. Our companies are bending over trying to sell products to the Chinese and doing what's necessary to satisfy the needs of the communist leaders (think Google's censorship of the internet). It is us who are helping the Chinese communist leaders get rich and it is us who are helping them stay in power.

Blabbing about human rights is disengenious when all your actions help the human rights abusers stay in power.

[scribblet]

This is a hoot,

Andrew Coyne in the National Post asks, Who is Bob Rae? I know who Bob Rae is. Bob Rae is the Power Corp Proxy and he is going to win the Liberal leadership because the Power Corp Proxy always wins.

The leadership race will be great theatre. It has to be. Nobody wants a frickin' boring coronation like the previous Liberal leadership race. However, like all theatre, the end of the script is known.

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2...andra.html#more

read some of the comments, they are a hoot

The Desmarais/Liberal cartel) are getting their knickers in a knot because Harper is a principled stand on their human rights atrocities....they need a Powercor PM in the PMO to save their business investments.

"I'm sure that Bob Rae will be ready, willing and able to do to Canada what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe. But in fact, he'll merely do for the West what King George III did for the Americans."

[Figleaf]

The Chinese are handing Canada's 'new Conservative government' its diplomatic ass.

Right, sure. Just like I said, those on the left so hate Harper that if it was him or Satan they'd choose Satan.

What?

[scribblet]

The Chinese are handing Canada's 'new Conservative government' its diplomatic ass.

Right, sure. Just like I said, those on the left so hate Harper that if it was him or Satan they'd choose Satan.

What?

I think he's saying that no matter what Harper did, the left would disagree. He could walk on water and they'd find something wrong with it, their ideology and hatred blinds them to any non partisan dialogue.

[Figleaf]

The Chinese are handing Canada's 'new Conservative government' its diplomatic ass.

Right, sure. Just like I said, those on the left so hate Harper that if it was him or Satan they'd choose Satan.

What?

I think he's saying that no matter what Harper did, the left would disagree. He could walk on water and they'd find something wrong with it, their ideology and hatred blinds them to any non partisan dialogue.

Hm. That would be an odd digression -- but this is ARGus we're talking about, so it's possible.

[hiti]

Media Quote: Harper added he and Hu agreed to work on expanding a science and technology agreement but it appears he was referring to an agreement signed last year by Liberal prime minister Paul Martin.

nd when it came to the awkward diplomatic dance that has developed between Canada and China, it seems the new Conservative tone — and international diplomacy is all about tone — was not all that welcome by China.

Harper declared on the flight over his government would be more "vocal" than those in the past about human rights, and would not "sell out" its concerns "to the almighty dollar."

"We will not accept conditions for discussions" became Harper's own condition for any meeting between him and the Chinese leader.

In the end, there was no real bilateral meeting with the Chinese leader.

Harper said Chinese President Hu Jintao approached him before a gala dinner Saturday night. They spoke for 15 minutes, and canvassed a range of economic, political and "consular" concerns.

Liu Jianchao, China's foreign ministry spokesman, said general human rights did not come up.

As for the case of Celil, the Canadian citizen jailed in China, it appears Harper's loud pronouncements made little headway.

China reiterated its position that Celil is viewed as a Chinese national, and a criminal.

In his final news conference, Harper made a virtue of his approach, and took a swipe at his Liberal predecessors.

He said he had the "distinct impression that the Chinese are not used to that from a Canadian government." The implication was they'd better get used to it.

The "fact of the matter is neglecting human rights hasn't opened a lot of doors either," Harper said.

Canada's imports from China are worth $29.5 billion, while Canada exports just $7 billion to the booming Chinese market. It is our second-largest trading partner. And Harper doesn't think that will change.

"China has a very successful economic relationship with Canada — one largely to its advantage — and we think the Chinese won't see any particular advantage in any way harming that relationship," he told reporters.

In other words, Harper believes there's no real price to pay for his approach.

It's a declaration from someone who has never been to China, or Asia before this trip, and clearly does not believe the admonishments from his people like the Canadian Chamber of Commerce president Nancy Hughes Anthony. She says the "tone from the top" does matter with China.

For all the "frank, direct" talk, were Harper's counterparts here listening, and would they heed this new voice?

It appeared China, master of the velvet-covered sledgehammer, was less than impressed by the lecture.

Liu, speaking to Canadian reporters, sent a message that even Harper cannot ignore.

"The first thing I would like to say is that China attaches importance to our bilateral relationship," said Liu.

"This is the first thing. And second, we think that country-to-country relations should be based on equality, mutual benefit and mutual respect."

Asked if enough respect had been shown in China's view, Liu's answer was, well, diplomatic.

"I think the mutual respect would be beneficial for both sides, so if the two countries are committed to further development of China-Canada relationship, I mean all the parties, both parties, should make efforts towards this end." -end quote

So while Harpo suckers the voters back home with his political "announcements" and political games, Canada's international reputation is now a laughingstock with a idiot as it's PM.

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper's foreign policy strategy is a joke and is causing Canada to be hated around the world, British politician George Galloway said Monday.

[kimmy]

OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper's foreign policy strategy is a joke and is causing Canada to be hated around the world, British politician George Galloway said Monday.

George Galloway... a guy who was too left-wing for the Labour Party (isn't that kind of like being too gay to be on Will & Grace?) and got kicked out of Parliament by his own party for urging British soldiers to disobey orders and for urging other Arab nations fight in Iraq's defense.

Sounds like an awesome guy.

Now that we know what kind of ideas he represents, it's no wonder he'd badmouth Harper... but it's not like this guy is credible or anything.

-k

[hiti]

You don't like George Galloway? Liu Jianchao, China's foreign ministry spokesman says the same thing only with more diplomacy.

[kimmy]

You don't like George Galloway? Liu Jianchao, China's foreign ministry spokesman says the same thing only with more diplomacy.

You mean this part?

"The first thing I would like to say is that China attaches importance to our bilateral relationship," said Liu.

"This is the first thing. And second, we think that country-to-country relations should be based on equality, mutual benefit and mutual respect."

Asked if enough respect had been shown in China's view, Liu's answer was, well, diplomatic.

"I think the mutual respect would be beneficial for both sides, so if the two countries are committed to further development of China-Canada relationship, I mean all the parties, both parties, should make efforts towards this end."

If they're such big believers in mutual respect, maybe they should show some.

-k

[hiti]

If they're such big believers in mutual respect, maybe they should show some.

-k

Ahhhhhhhhhhh.... respect is earned. Tell your buddy Harper.

[kimmy]

Do you advocate that we "earn their respect" by keeping our mouths shut about anything that might upset them, while pleading with them to please just give our manufactured goods a chance? Please? Please?

Yeah, I bet the Paul Martin approach won us a ton of respect from the Chinese, and from all over. I bet George Galloway thought it was awesome too.

-k

[hiti]

I get so tired of the Harper's defenders who refuse or won't educate themselves but just blindly accept whatever the Hapless Wonder does is right and try to blame Liberals for everything.

Prime Minister Jean Chretien in 1997 created the Canada-China Joint Dialogue on Human Rights, which has met every year except this one. (Quess why?) Paul Martin was the first Canadian PM to meet with the Dalai Lama. In general, Chretien and Martin were more predisposed to engage China, aggressively pushing trade links while raising the rights issues behind closed door. Not making spectacles of themselves on the International stage to fool the voters back home.

All the blabbing Harper did on the plane to Vietnam about China canceling the meeting cause he wouldn't sacrifice human rights for trade was a load of crap. China told reporters early Sunday that they had never planned a full bilateral meeting as Harper claimed. And when they finally did meet, human rights weren't even discussed.

[kimmy]

Prime Minister Jean Chretien in 1997 created the Canada-China Joint Dialogue on Human Rights,

And what a superb job it's done.

Paul Martin was the first Canadian PM to meet with the Dalai Lama.

Let me guess... they met at a party on Bono's yacht?

-k