Canadians and their history

[Wilber]

I have heard that most CDN historical education focuses on multiculturalism. Is that true?

There is no Canadian history. Canada is too new as a nation.

Not when I went to school.

Seems the older the country gets, the less its history is taught.

[jdobbin]

Not when I went to school.

Seems the older the country gets, the less its history is taught.

Everyone throws something into the curriculum. Did they teach computer when you were in school?

[Wilber]

Not when I went to school.

Seems the older the country gets, the less its history is taught.

Everyone throws something into the curriculum. Did they teach computer when you were in school?

There were no computers. I was in my late twenties before I saw a calculator. My father didn't get a computer until he was eighty but he can still use one for anything he is interested in. I still occasionaly have to tell cashiers how much change they owe me when the machine can't tell them. I only need the exchange rate to figure out if gas is cheaper across the border. I take your point however, learning to use computers is very important in this age but so is knowing about your country if you want to have one.

I've always been a lover of history. When my son once said to me who cares about history, aside from all the lessons we can learn from it, I asked him, doesn't he ever wonder how he came to live where he lives, is the colour he is, speaks the language he does, etc, etc? I don't know if he does but I do.

[jdobbin]

There were no computers. I was in my late twenties before I saw a calculator. My father didn't get a computer until he was eighty but he can still use one for anything he is interested in. I still occasionaly have to tell cashiers how much change they owe me when the machine can't tell them. I only need the exchange rate to figure out if gas is cheaper across the border. I take your point however, learning to use computers is very important in this age but so is knowing about your country if you want to have one.

I've always been a lover of history. When my son once said to me who cares about history, aside from all the lessons we can learn from it, I asked him, doesn't he ever wonder how he came to live where he lives, is the colour he is, speaks the language he does, etc, etc? I don't know if he does but I do.

Classes in computers have taken up a huge amount of time in schools. History has suffered as a result.

The amount of languages taught in school has increased as well. That has cut into time for other studies.

I know people say there is no excuse for the lack of history education but there are only so many hours in a day. Parents probably have to think what their kids will benefit most from: computer knowledge or history?

[JMH]

Pretty Sad

Do schools teach Canadian history any more? If so, what do they teach?

That Pierre Trudeu was the second coming of Christ.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

Wasn't Grade 13 only just recently eliminated in Ontario? I thought that's why post-secondary institutions were facing the whole double-cohort crunch with a double sized class of graduates. Also, I had no idea OACs had been eliminated.

Grade 13 was eliminated when the majority of schools went to the semester system. They became OAC's... for the next 10 or so years you needed at least 6 OAC's to apply for University. Most people doing their OAC's had already graduated - we graduated in grade 12 as everyone received the same diploma, the OSSD. The crunch that you are referring to occurred a few years ago when they eliminated the OAC's... in effect the Universities had the OAC year and the grade 12 year coming at the same time. The confusion arises in that even though they were OAC's, most students still called it grade 13, even though it was incorrectly used.

[Argus]

Basically, history is full of stories of dead white guys. It was also "eurocentric" and focussed too much on a time when there weren't enough visible minorities. Educational experts tried in vain to scour our historical texts so they could focus on the great actions of hermaphrodite lesbians or something, but couldn't find them. So instead they focussed on how evil, cruel, stupid, racist, and environmentally evil our ancestors were. Since they were all so horrible, there seemed nothing we could learn from them, so history sort of got rolled into courses like "social studies" wherein history was only looked at briefly, so we could feel suitably guilty about how evil and horrible all our ancestors were (excluding visible and ethnic minorities, of course) and then move on to learn how evil and horrible all white people and capitalists are towards the environment, visible minorities, and third world countries.

Thus students emerge from Canadian high schools unable to do basic mathematics, or to express themselves in a literate fashion, and knowing virtually nothing about Canadian history. By and large, Canadians are becoming stupider with every generation.

[ClearWest]

Did any of you go to school in British Columbia? Because I did, and we learned plenty about Canadian History, especially the two world wars. Mind you, we didn't get to them until Grade 11, but still. I'm guessing that the curriculum differs from province to province.

[Wilber]

Did any of you go to school in British Columbia? Because I did, and we learned plenty about Canadian History, especially the two world wars. Mind you, we didn't get to them until Grade 11, but still. I'm guessing that the curriculum differs from province to province.

When was that?

[ClearWest]

Did any of you go to school in British Columbia? Because I did, and we learned plenty about Canadian History, especially the two world wars. Mind you, we didn't get to them until Grade 11, but still. I'm guessing that the curriculum differs from province to province.

When was that?

Just in the last five years actually.

[jdobbin]

Just in the last five years actually.

It's an improvement then in that province.

Most texts 20 years or so back had no references to Canada in any war. They didn't even mention Confederation.

[jbg]

Educational experts tried in vain to scour our historical texts so they could focus on the great actions of hermaphrodite lesbians or something, but couldn't find them.

Joan of Arc?

Thus students emerge from Canadian high schools unable to do basic mathematics, or to express themselves in a literate fashion, and knowing virtually nothing about Canadian history. By and large, Canadians are becoming stupider with every generation.

Relax, things are no better here in the US.

[jdobbin]

Relax, things are no better here in the US.

The United States repeats its history. Every generation gets to live the same experience.

[jbg]

Relax, things are no better here in the US.

The United States repeats its history. Every generation gets to live the same experience.

I don't quite get that pointless remark. The US has given freedom to more people than any country in the world by accepting immigrants, teaching them English, teaching them to participate in a civil society and manage responsibility. The United States has, while not perfect, done more to make people's lives in other countries better than any country in history. The United States rebuilt Europe after WW II.

I am getting tired of this ludicrous, and in this case off-topic, sniping at my great country.

[Topaz]

As a "baby boomer" I can say we did take Canadian history in grades 9 & 10, we listen to records of WW1 and WW2 and had daily test on it. In public school, we took about the war of 1812, seven's years war, the confederation, we also took the history of the US, this was grade 7 & 8. Today, every school is different and it should be better for kids to have more info. with the computer to help them. I think education is more exciting than it was 30 years ago!

[jdobbin]

I don't quite get that pointless remark. The US has given freedom to more people than any country in the world by accepting immigrants, teaching them English, teaching them to participate in a civil society and manage responsibility. The United States has, while not perfect, done more to make people's lives in other countries better than any country in history. The United States rebuilt Europe after WW II.

I am getting tired of this ludicrous, and in this case off-topic, sniping at my great country.

I was not referring to your culture but to the education system which like Canada's does not do enough in terms of history education.

For Americans, if often means every generation there is a war that is fought where the same mistakes of the last one are repeated. History is not observed or is ignored.

In Canada, the lack of knowledge of our history leads to regional conflict every ten years or so.

Stop being oversensitive.

[Argus]

As a "baby boomer" I can say we did take Canadian history in grades 9 & 10, we listen to records of WW1 and WW2 and had daily test on it. In public school, we took about the war of 1812, seven's years war, the confederation, we also took the history of the US, this was grade 7 & 8. Today, every school is different and it should be better for kids to have more info. with the computer to help them. I think education is more exciting than it was 30 years ago!

Education isn't supposed to excite, it's supposed to E-D-U-C-A-T-E.

[g_bambino]

Grade 13 was eliminated when the majority of schools went to the semester system. They became OAC's... for the next 10 or so years you needed at least 6 OAC's to apply for University. Most people doing their OAC's had already graduated - we graduated in grade 12 as everyone received the same diploma, the OSSD. The crunch that you are referring to occurred a few years ago when they eliminated the OAC's... in effect the Universities had the OAC year and the grade 12 year coming at the same time. The confusion arises in that even though they were OAC's, most students still called it grade 13, even though it was incorrectly used.

Yes, that makes sense now; I remember the 6 OAC requirement, but at the school I attended you began to take OACs in Grade 11 and continued with them until you'd completed at least 6. That meant you could graduate in Grade 12 if you so chose, but could stay on for 13 as well. If you stayed the extra year, you graduated and received your OSSD at the end of 13 years.

The school has since gone on to operate under the International Baccalaureate, though students still receive and OSSD at the end of their time there.

[g_bambino]

Classes in computers have taken up a huge amount of time in schools. History has suffered as a result.

The amount of languages taught in school has increased as well. That has cut into time for other studies.

I know people say there is no excuse for the lack of history education but there are only so many hours in a day. Parents probably have to think what their kids will benefit most from: computer knowledge or history?

It might also be how the days of the school year, and the years of a child's education are used.

From kindergarten to Grade 13 I learned two languages in depth (English and French), the basics of a third (German); as well as computers (from Grade 4 to 11), including programming and construction; and the history I've already outlined here. On top of that we got mathematics from the basics all the way through to Algebra & Geometry, Calculus, Probability and Statistics; rudimentary science through to complex Biology and Physics; literature, part of which was the study of Geoffrey Chaucer, William Shakespeare, Hunter S. Thompson, Plato, Kurt Vonnegut, Michael Ondaatje, and others; I learned to play two musical instruments; studied art from the Renaissance to Jackson Pollok, as well as creating pieces of my own; learned the foundations of many sports including Karate, basic coaching techniques, sex-ed, nutrition and exercise in Phys-ed; studied minerals, geology, ice ages, and the like in Geography; and extra-curricularly took part in theatre set design, helped organize an inter-school symphony orchestra, was in the choir, played three years of lacrosse, and ran cross-country.

Now, for sure I don't remember even half of what I learned - some I don't even want to. But it sure as hell laid a good foundation for university and my career, and my school year was actually shorter than the public school year. So, I can't say for sure what public school curriculum is like now, but I know for a fact that in my years in school no time was taken to teach about our individual cultural heritage or the language of our respective ancestors, how to shop for groceries or balance a household budget, how to be tolerant and multi-cultural, or other stuff like that which was all expected to be taught in the home. Your parents were to be responsible for you and teach you to be a good person, and though the teachers certainly took an interest in our well-being and moulding, their primary task was to teach the facts and simply get us to learn by always asking questions and listening to the answers.

So, is it really a matter of there being too much to teach? Or is it that too much time is wasted in schools on what should be taught to young people elsewhere?

[jbg]

So, is it really a matter of there being too much to teach? Or is it that too much time is wasted in schools on what should be taught to young people elsewhere?

I tihnk the latter. In my district, many of the teachers spend much of their day in meetings required by various special education laws (one of my sons is special ed so I am not biased against special ed students). The teachers also have to prepare reams of paperwork, almost all of it unreadable and unread, for these meetings.

My view is that red tape has slowly but surely swallowed up a lot of the school day for teachers.

[jdobbin]

So, is it really a matter of there being too much to teach? Or is it that too much time is wasted in schools on what should be taught to young people elsewhere?

So what you have dropped to focus your studies?

[jdobbin]

I tihnk the latter. In my district, many of the teachers spend much of their day in meetings required by various special education laws (one of my sons is special ed so I am not biased against special ed students). The teachers also have to prepare reams of paperwork, almost all of it unreadable and unread, for these meetings.

My view is that red tape has slowly but surely swallowed up a lot of the school day for teachers.

Some people think the school year should be 50 weeks a year given what people need to learn. What do you think?

[g_bambino]

So, is it really a matter of there being too much to teach? Or is it that too much time is wasted in schools on what should be taught to young people elsewhere?

So what you have dropped to focus your studies?

If I'm interpreting your question correctly: yes, some things should be dropped from the classroom to focus studies. Things like teaching kids how to change diapers, resolve conflict, develop social skills, and other such common things that should be taught to them in the home, or by the larger community. I'm probably generalizing here, but it seems that teachers spend too much time at school being parents, while the actual parents don't do much at all and then blame the school system because their kid hasn't turned out right.

Of course, curricula, attitudes and results will vary from place to place, but for those who are now suffering from a poor education, I simply can't agree that it's because there's "too much to learn."

[jbg]

I'm probably generalizing here, but it seems that teachers spend too much time at school being parents, while the actual parents don't do much at all and then blame the school system because their kid hasn't turned out right.

Of course, curricula, attitudes and results will vary from place to place, but for those who are now suffering from a poor education, I simply can't agree that it's because there's "too much to learn."

Being an "actual parent" (albeit American rather than Canadian, though the huge cultural differences may make comparison difficult), "actual parents" do quite a bit. In fact too much. The schoolwork is at least one and one-half grades more advanced than the curriculum that I took in fifth and fourth grades (the grades of my children). Thus, we spend far more time in "homework zone" than my parents did. Also, for recreation, children don't ride their bicycles to pickup games any more; they are ferried to reams of planned, organized after-school activities. My older son, for example, has Hebrew School on Wednesdays and Saturdays, soccer on Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays, and bowling on Mondays. That leaves Tuesdays and Fridays without some organized, time-consuming activity.

I believe that the absence of history from curricula reflects an embarrassment with living in countries that have, on balance, done well, and done well through self-government. There's a felt need to breast-beat about "exploitation" of people whose idea of recreation is to fire guns in the air rather than take pride in and learn about such national greats as Wolfe, Washington, the soldiers at Vimy Ridge, Juno Beach and Omaha Beach.