Canada/China Relations

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/061111/cana...ec_canada_china

It isn't the first time there appears to have been tension between China and Canada under the recent government. I know that last time there was a report, it was revealed that several high level meetings have been cancelled by Harper's government with no explanation.

Is there some reason why the Conservative government has not met anyone from China in high level meetings?

[normanchateau]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/061111/cana...ec_canada_china

It isn't the first time there appears to have been tension between China and Canada under the recent government. I know that last time there was a report, it was revealed that several high level meetings have been cancelled by Harper's government with no explanation.

Is there some reason why the Conservative government has not met anyone from China in high level meetings?

Maybe they're trying to show that their foreign policy is independent of that of the US.

Maybe they're more right-wing than the Bush administration.

Maybe they think that Taiwan is the "real" China.

Maybe they worry that the Canadian softwood lumber industry will start selling lumber at a profit to China rather than selling it at a loss to the US.

Maybe they don't want to do business with godless atheists.

[sharkman]

Maybe China's many human rights violations has something to do with it. Or perhaps their industry which pirates anything it can get its hands on. How about their military complex, and all of the missile technology they've stolen. Nah, let's blame Harper...

[Ricki Bobbi]

Maybe they're trying to show that their foreign policy is independent of that of the US.

Maybe they're more right-wing than the Bush administration.

Maybe they think that Taiwan is the "real" China.

Maybe they worry that the Canadian softwood lumber industry will start selling lumber at a profit to China rather than selling it at a loss to the US.

Maybe they don't want to do business with godless atheists.

Maybe you really are a *Harper loather*.

Maybe your hatred and vile have blinded you to any semblance of facts.

May you could explain how the Canadian lumber industry could start selling product to China, a net exporter in the industry? Nevermind the shipping costs that would be involved.

Maybe you just want to attack Harper with abolutely no clue of the issues involved.

[ft.niagara]

Maybe you just want to attack Harper with abolutely no clue of the issues involved.

It is easy to post for the opposition. All you do is get a news item, change some names, and places perhaps, and bam you post it. Probably you could set up a computer bot program to do that.

[normanchateau]

Maybe China's many human rights violations has something to do with it.

Seems unlikely. Theocracies like the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan whose constitution states that the Koran reigns supreme routinely violate human rights. Powerful mullahs can over-ride any human rights if those rights are, as stated in the Afghan constitution, "contrary to Islam." For example, they imprison people for blasphemy and sentence people to death for converting to Christianity. The Karzai government has done both yet Harper not only invites Karzai to Canada but is willing to sacrifice Canadians for that country.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Seems unlikely. Theocracies like the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan whose constitution states that the Koran reigns supreme routinely violate human rights. Powerful mullahs can over-ride any human rights if those rights are, as stated in the Afghan constitution, "contrary to Islam." For example, they imprison people for blasphemy and sentence people to death for converting to Christianity. The Karzai government has done both yet Harper not only invites Karzai to Canada but is willing to sacrifice Canadians for that country.

Fair enough. It could be that the details are still being worked on. China and Canada are both important for each other's economic future. A meeting of some kind will take place...

[jdobbin]

Maybe they're trying to show that their foreign policy is independent of that of the US.

Maybe they're more right-wing than the Bush administration.

Maybe they think that Taiwan is the "real" China.

Maybe they worry that the Canadian softwood lumber industry will start selling lumber at a profit to China rather than selling it at a loss to the US.

Maybe they don't want to do business with godless atheists.

It certainly would be a different policy than the Bush government. They have any number of high level meetings going on peace and security, economy and international relations. Harper has been around for several months and we still haven't had any meetings with officials there.

[jdobbin]

Maybe China's many human rights violations has something to do with it. Or perhaps their industry which pirates anything it can get its hands on. How about their military complex, and all of the missile technology they've stolen. Nah, let's blame Harper...

If any of these things are the reason perhaps the government could state so. Initially, I just thought it was the government getting settled in but it has been a very long time and no high level meetings with the country that is the second largest importer to Canada.

[normanchateau]

Seems unlikely. Theocracies like the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan whose constitution states that the Koran reigns supreme routinely violate human rights. Powerful mullahs can over-ride any human rights if those rights are, as stated in the Afghan constitution, "contrary to Islam." For example, they imprison people for blasphemy and sentence people to death for converting to Christianity. The Karzai government has done both yet Harper not only invites Karzai to Canada but is willing to sacrifice Canadians for that country.

Fair enough. It could be that the details are still being worked on. China and Canada are both important for each other's economic future. A meeting of some kind will take place...

I'm confident a meeting will take place as well. And when I said maybe this and maybe that in my previous post, I was merely joking. In retrospect, I should have added smiley faces.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I'm confident a meeting will take place as well. And when I said maybe this and maybe that in my previous post, I was merely joking. In retrospect, I should have added smiley faces.

You're a tough one to read Normie. I never know when you are mocking rabid Harper loathers and when you are actually being a Harper loather.

[jbg]

It certainly would be a different policy than the Bush government. They have any number of high level meetings going on peace and security, economy and international relations. Harper has been around for several months and we still haven't had any meetings with officials there.

I'm confident there are working level meetings going on all the time. Harper is not needed for those meetings, nor is a Cabinet minister.

[jdobbin]

I'm confident there are working level meetings going on all the time. Harper is not needed for those meetings, nor is a Cabinet minister.

The Chinese themselves have said there has been very little interaction even at low level meetings.

[normanchateau]

I'm confident a meeting will take place as well. And when I said maybe this and maybe that in my previous post, I was merely joking. In retrospect, I should have added smiley faces.

You're a tough one to read Normie. I never know when you are mocking rabid Harper loathers and when you are actually being a Harper loather.

Fair comment Ricki. I have been known to do both, not to mention mocking myself. It all depends on whether the right or left cerebral hemisphere is dominant at that particular moment.

[scribblet]

Policies of 'neglected opportunities' to increase trade predate the current gov't. The CPC has stated that human rights would be prominent in the policy still being developed.

Hasn't there been a recent problem with China heisting our technology; they now are peddling a Redberry, a rip off of our Blackberry. Probably a lot more to all of this than we really know.

All this spinning of issues is making me dizzy -

[jdobbin]

Policies of 'neglected opportunities' to increase trade predate the current gov't. The CPC has stated that human rights would be prominent in the policy still being developed.

Hasn't there been a recent problem with China heisting our technology; they now are peddling a Redberry, a rip off of our Blackberry. Probably a lot more to all of this than we really know.

All this spinning of issues is making me dizzy -

Prior to the Conservative government though there had been high level discussions over such things are human rights and trade issues. Since then, nothing. And that is according to the Chinese.

[normanchateau]

The CPC has stated that human rights would be prominent in the policy still being developed.

Yeah, their support of Islamic theocracies where human rights don't count if they're "contary to Islam" shows that the CPC really cares about human rights.

[Argus]

Maybe China's many human rights violations has something to do with it. Or perhaps their industry which pirates anything it can get its hands on. How about their military complex, and all of the missile technology they've stolen. Nah, let's blame Harper...

If any of these things are the reason perhaps the government could state so. Initially, I just thought it was the government getting settled in but it has been a very long time and no high level meetings with the country that is the second largest importer to Canada.

If you mean that we get more of our goods from China than any other nation but the US, that is likely true.

So?

What do you believe we need to talk about with the Chinese Communists?

Me, I'd talk about how we're going to put extra tarrifs and restrictions on many of their imports until they stop using slave labour.

[Argus]

The CPC has stated that human rights would be prominent in the policy still being developed.

Yeah, their support of Islamic theocracies where human rights don't count if they're "contary to Islam" shows that the CPC really cares about human rights.

You really are a broken record.

And your defiant ignorance regarding what a theocracy is impresses no one.

[jdobbin]

If you mean that we get more of our goods from China than any other nation but the US, that is likely true.

So?

What do you believe we need to talk about with the Chinese Communists?

Me, I'd talk about how we're going to put extra tarrifs and restrictions on many of their imports until they stop using slave labour.

I think Canada's coastal security is threatened by North Korean missiles. The way to North Korea lies though China. There are also many economic issues we should be discussing with them.

[normanchateau]

The CPC has stated that human rights would be prominent in the policy still being developed.

Yeah, their support of Islamic theocracies where human rights don't count if they're "contary to Islam" shows that the CPC really cares about human rights.

And your defiant ignorance regarding what a theocracy is impresses no one.

Article 3 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan states that no laws can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam. This rather significant clause gives the religious leaders of Afghanistan, both official and nonofficial mullahs, sway over all human rights and every action that they deem contrary to their beliefs. Perhaps this satisfies your definition of a democracy but others disagree, e.g.,

http://anewerworld.org/?p=40

Of course your lack of knowledge and credibility on substantive issues does not entirely surprise me after you characterized as an absolute fabrication on my part the amended article 318 of the Criminal Code of Canada. To paraphrase Article 318, it is a hate crime to kill people because of their sexual orientation. As you are perfectly aware, Mr. Harper voted against the legislation which lead to the article 318 amendment.

[jbg]

The CPC has stated that human rights would be prominent in the policy still being developed.

Yeah, their support of Islamic theocracies where human rights don't count if they're "contary to Islam" shows that the CPC really cares about human rights.

Perfection is not possible. The Islamosphere covers most of the land mass from the Southern Phillippines, through Indonesia, up through the Malay Peninsula to part of Thailand, (I don't know about Myanmar), Bangladesh, large chunks of India, Pakistan and north through the "stans" of the former USSR, through Morocco (except a PEI sized Israel), south to large portions of Nigeria, to Londonistan, the banleieus (sp) of Paris, to Malmo, Sweden, to large parts of Toronto and Windsor.

Can Harper really avoid at least some dealings with the largely malodorous cast of that area?

[normanchateau]

The CPC has stated that human rights would be prominent in the policy still being developed.

Yeah, their support of Islamic theocracies where human rights don't count if they're "contary to Islam" shows that the CPC really cares about human rights.

The Islamosphere covers most of the land mass from the Southern Phillippines, through Indonesia, up through the Malay Peninsula to part of Thailand, (I don't know about Myanmar), Bangladesh, large chunks of India, Pakistan and north through the "stans" of the former USSR, through Morocco (except a PEI sized Israel), south to large portions of Nigeria, to Londonistan, the banleieus (sp) of Paris, to Malmo, Sweden, to large parts of Toronto and Windsor.

Can Harper really avoid at least some dealings with the largely malodorous cast of that area?

My comments dealt with Islamic theocracies, not mere contact with Islamic peoples. Not all Islamic countries are theocratic. The largest Islamic country in the world population-wise, Indonesia, is not a theocracy. Most of North Africa is not particularly theocratic. Iraq was secular but post-Saddam, they brought in an Islamic constitution.

[jbg]

My comments dealt with Islamic theocracies, not mere contact with Islamic peoples. Not all Islamic countries are theocratic. The largest Islamic country in the world population-wise, Indonesia, is not a theocracy. Most of North Africa is not particularly theocratic. Iraq was secular but post-Saddam, they brought in an Islamic constitution.

There is severe discrimination against Catholics and (Chinese) Buddhists in Indonesia. The country does not hae ties with Israel. The prosecution of the Bali bombings was a joke.

It has many if not all of the hallmarks of a theocracy.

[normanchateau]

My comments dealt with Islamic theocracies, not mere contact with Islamic peoples. Not all Islamic countries are theocratic. The largest Islamic country in the world population-wise, Indonesia, is not a theocracy. Most of North Africa is not particularly theocratic. Iraq was secular but post-Saddam, they brought in an Islamic constitution.

There is severe discrimination against Catholics and (Chinese) Buddhists in Indonesia. The country does not hae ties with Israel. The prosecution of the Bali bombings was a joke.

It has many if not all of the hallmarks of a theocracy.

I have no argument with your criticism of Indonesia. But they don't condemn Muslims to death for converting to Christianity. Compared to the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, Indonesia is a democracy.