betsy Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Why not go? He didn't have to "abide by their dictations", as you say, so why not go and be a good ally instead of cancelling a month in advance? Because he's scared of being chided over Kyoto, that's why. They already know his stance! Why does he need to waste time...and taxpayer's money...over what? To tell them again about what they already know? I don't think he is scared of being chided. If you saw how he stood up to the Francophonie..."scared" is not the right word to describe Harper. Knowing that they're all pouting and miffed about his decision, I think he wants to salvage diplomatic relations by using diplomacy instead. If he is not there "to be chided", as you assume....there will be no need to defend his decisions and most likely end up crossing words with them. He's giving them some time to cool off. Quote
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 I'd like him or rather the Government to al least be honest about it, sayign that he can't make it because of his need to stick near the House because of the minority status of the Government is just BS, why Vienna and Viet Nam then? What is it about this government? Why can't they be honest with us? What is it about you? Why can't you recognize that sometimes diplomacy requires less than 100% truthful and honest answers... Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
betsy Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 I'd like him or rather the Government to al least be honest about it, sayign that he can't make it because of his need to stick near the House because of the minority status of the Government is just BS, why Vienna and Viet Nam then? What is it about this government? Why can't they be honest with us? How would it look like if he said: "Well, I decided not to go because they'll be jumping mad about my decision...a decision I made as the PM of Canada, thinking and deciding what is best for Canadians. If they end up attacking my decision, of course I will have to defend it...and they might only end up being all the more sore when I become really, really honest....frankly honest....brutally honest....about what I think about it!" Of course, that reply will be plastered all over the world. It can't be and it won't be, "for Canadians' eyes only." I think he did the right thing. He is using strategy. Diplomacy. And I can only see the positive step in his decision about not going....most especially that I'm still fuming about the Senators' Dubai holiday affair! Quote
geoffrey Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Welcome to another episode of the Ricki and Gerry show. They both need to go. This was obviously yet another borderline cross posting, why gerry enjoys pissing us all off I don't know. And RB's enticements are just as troubling. All these boards are now is Gerry v. RB in a game of toothpulling to the death. I'm frankly quite sick of it and I'm sure most others are. When every thread you post turns into a debate about it's consistancy with the forum rules, it's time to move along your merry ol' way. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
Argus Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Essentially, the article you posted is the same article Argus is talking about. Argus posted a topic which was critical of the media. Yes, he mentions that there's a new story out, but he does not link it and it is not the central theme of his topic. The central themes of his topic is to critisize the media, and to critisize Europe and the Liberals over Kyoto. I would say the central them was to point out that Kyoto was lost before Harper was ever elected, and that anyone suggesting otherwise is deceitful or ignorant. I also pointed out, with cite, that many European nations are not going to meet their quotas either, and so the entire basis of the article's claim is questionable, at best. In my opinion this is topic should not have been created. I would not have created mine had this been up. I'd also like to point out that it is a mark of the failure of this forum, really, that in neither thread does the actual topic - Harper not going to the EU conference because of Kyoto - play more than a minor, secondary role. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
gerryhatrick Posted November 5, 2006 Author Report Posted November 5, 2006 When every thread you post turns into a debate about it's consistancy with the forum rules, it's time to move along your merry ol' way. Or for the person(s) who choose to harrass and harangue you to move along their merry ol way. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
Shakeyhands Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Welcome to another episode of the Ricki and Gerry show. They both need to go. This was obviously yet another borderline cross posting, why gerry enjoys pissing us all off I don't know. And RB's enticements are just as troubling. All these boards are now is Gerry v. RB in a game of toothpulling to the death. I'm frankly quite sick of it and I'm sure most others are. When every thread you post turns into a debate about it's consistancy with the forum rules, it's time to move along your merry ol' way. I half agree with you Geoffrey, take a look at who chses whom, I don't think I've had a response to a post of mine that wasn't in some way an attack. Not sure why you'd have an issue with Gerry, ither than his disdain for Harper that is????? Shall we have a board where everyone agrees all the time and is a big ol "circle of fun"? Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Shakeyhands Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 I'd like him or rather the Government to al least be honest about it, sayign that he can't make it because of his need to stick near the House because of the minority status of the Government is just BS, why Vienna and Viet Nam then? What is it about this government? Why can't they be honest with us? How would it look like if he said: "Well, I decided not to go because they'll be jumping mad about my decision...a decision I made as the PM of Canada, thinking and deciding what is best for Canadians. If they end up attacking my decision, of course I will have to defend it...and they might only end up being all the more sore when I become really, really honest....frankly honest....brutally honest....about what I think about it!" Of course, that reply will be plastered all over the world. It can't be and it won't be, "for Canadians' eyes only." I think he did the right thing. He is using strategy. Diplomacy. And I can only see the positive step in his decision about not going....most especially that I'm still fuming about the Senators' Dubai holiday affair! Honesty is what I expect. If that means saying screw Kyoto, I'm not wasting time and money, well so be it. Or better yet, defend your position to the world community, have the yarbals to say what you believe. Maybe I am being to idealistic but come on.... Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
B. Max Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Honesty is what I expect. If that means saying screw Kyoto, I'm not wasting time and money, well so be it. Or better yet, defend your position to the world community, have the yarbals to say what you believe. Maybe I am being to idealistic but come on.... That I agree with. Quote
gerryhatrick Posted November 5, 2006 Author Report Posted November 5, 2006 Honesty is what I expect. If that means saying screw Kyoto, I'm not wasting time and money, well so be it. Or better yet, defend your position to the world community, have the yarbals to say what you believe. Maybe I am being to idealistic but come on.... Honesty would be nice, but I have to agree with Geoffry that in politics they're always going to give their own reasons - truthful or not - for not going someplace or doing something. I would prefer some statesmanship instead. Harper should have gone and faced whatever music he feared at the summit. I don't like to see Canada snubbing Europe, too many shades of the Bush administration. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Honesty would be nice, but I have to agree with Geoffry that in politics they're always going to give their own reasons - truthful or not - for not going someplace or doing something.I would prefer some statesmanship instead. Harper should have gone and faced whatever music he feared at the summit. I don't like to see Canada snubbing Europe, too many shades of the Bush administration. Fair enough on the first point. Statesmanship? Why should Harper go 'face the music'? He made a decision as the Prime Minister of Canada. He doesn't want to waste his time going to a meeting just to be lectured to for the decision he made. *scary* *scary* *scary* by comparing him to GW. tsk tsk tsk.... Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Jerry J. Fortin Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Harper is making a mistake by not showing up. He is responsible for his governments policy and its rejection of an international obligation under the treaty. Quote
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Harper is making a mistake by not showing up. He is responsible for his governments policy and its rejection of an international obligation under the treaty. Attacking the Canadian Government wasn't the primary focus of the meeting when we agreed to attend. Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Figleaf Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 *scary* *scary* *scary* by comparing him to GW. tsk tsk tsk.... Oh, now there's a brilliant comment. Quote
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Oh, now there's a brilliant comment. Another cut and paste hack job? Good for you. That makes five straight posts with personal attacks. I'll make you a deal. Get up to ten. I'll reply to all of them. Then report you to the mod and ignore them. Work for you? Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
ft.niagara Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 The thread is critical of Harper, yes. That is not a crime...it's actually part of something called democracy. No it is not democracy, it is double posting. There is a difference. One is a political format and the other is forum etiquette. Quote
ft.niagara Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Harper is making a mistake by not showing up. He is responsible for his governments policy and its rejection of an international obligation under the treaty. There are so many countries, and so many if ands or buts, there will never be an enforcable agreement. The have nots gang up on the haves, and the have nots build in exceptions for themselves, in order to catch the haves (China, India). No pain to them. Harper must do what is best for his country. Treaties are made, and treaties are broken or canceled. Quote
B. Max Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Treaties are made, and treaties are broken or canceled. Yeah and kyoto is one that should be both. Quote
Who's Doing What? Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Treaties are made, and treaties are broken or canceled. Now where was this little gem of knowledge two weeks ago? Quote Harper differed with his party on some key policy issues; in 1995, for example, he was one of only two Reform MPs to vote in favour of federal legislation requiring owners to register their guns. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/election/bio/harper.html "You've got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society." (Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, January 22, 2001)
Argus Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Harper is making a mistake by not showing up. He is responsible for his governments policy and its rejection of an international obligation under the treaty. Why is he even supposed to go? Did we join the EU when I wasn't looking? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
gc1765 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Posted November 5, 2006 Why is he even supposed to go? Did we join the EU when I wasn't looking? We have to be part of the EU for our PM to meet with european leaders? Do we have to be American for him to meet with Bush? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
B. Max Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Why is he even supposed to go? Did we join the EU when I wasn't looking? We have to be part of the EU for our PM to meet with european leaders? Do we have to be American for him to meet with Bush? our interests are with the states not the EU. Quote
Argus Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Why is he even supposed to go? Did we join the EU when I wasn't looking? We have to be part of the EU for our PM to meet with european leaders? Do we have to be American for him to meet with Bush? Presumably, the EU meets to discuss EU issues. Canada is a member of NORAD and NAFTA. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
gc1765 Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 our interests are with the states not the EU. Why, because we trade more with the U.S.? Should our PM only meet with leaders of countries (ie the U.S.) that we trade the most with? If that's the case, why was the summit planned in the first place? Presumably, the EU meets to discuss EU issues. Canada is a member of NORAD and NAFTA And presumably, the EU meets with Canada to discuss EU-Canadian issues. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Ricki Bobbi Posted November 6, 2006 Report Posted November 6, 2006 Why, because we trade more with the U.S.? Should our PM only meet with leaders of countries (ie the U.S.) that we trade the most with? If that's the case, why was the summit planned in the first place? Presumably when the Government agreed to it the plan wasn't just to give Canada crap about abandoning Kyoto. Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
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