Does a Jewish Conspiracy Really Exist?

[Rue]

This isn't "The anti-Semitic Hour", there are several pro-Israel/Evangelical lobby groups on Capital Hill. Jews are just as much victims as Gentiles are as this "conspiracy" consist of of influential, and powerful individuals of every race, nationality out to enslave mankind through wars, economical upheavals, political manipulation,

etc.

WTH?

There is a very powerful Jewish lobby in Canada and the USA which leverages it's power for political reasons.

You seem to agree...or, are you calling me "anti-Semitic"? Not really sure.

And if you need a lesson on how to quote other posters properly PM me. It's very easy.

This is precisely the kind of response such posts begat. Just so we are clear, your comment that there is a powerful Jewish lobby in Canada and the US which leveragesits power for political reasons is absolute and utter b.s. and the kind of racist generalization that flows from idiots who post conspiracy theories that generalize about races.

You have got to be kidding.

You are not aware of the Israel lobby? These are real people.

You've made yourself look very ignorant over this.

No please educate me. Give me specifics. Please.

[Rue]

[

Well it didn't take long for your true anti-semitic agenda to come out of your conspiracy postulations.

So we understand one another, you are a pathetic racist looking to use these posts as a way to spread your poison. For anyone to respond to you further wastes their valuable time.

And for anyone who cares Max Warburg was a German banker who at no time supported Hitler. There was an anti-semitic pamphlet spread about a "Sidney" Warburg as well.

No Jewish member of the Warburg family ever supported Hitler for obvious reasons.

The above poster is spreading vile white-supremist trash you can find in Aryan Race literature.

Please do not encourage him.

Hey, who are you calling "racist", and "anti-semetic"! The 'conspiracy' I am talking about has NOTHING to do with Jews. Its an "equal opportunity consortium" employing a variety of races, nationalities, political parties with ONE thing in mind, the eventual enslavement of mankind. For your information Jews are just as much victims as Gentiles. You wouldn't call ex-Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky, Mordecai Vennunu, anti-semetic would you. Oh and by the way do you know what the word anti-semitic means? Bet you don't!!

You. Be careful who you describe as a Rich Jew supporting Hitler. Someone like me actually reads your drivel and will call you out on it.

[gerryhatrick]

No please educate me. Give me specifics. Please.

The names of persons in the organizations that openly lobby foreign power brokers in the cause of Israel's interests are easily available on the net. I don't think I feel like doing your work for you in light of your recent accusation, no offense.

[jbg]

WTH?

There is a very powerful Jewish lobby in Canada and the USA which leverages it's power for political reasons.

You seem to agree...or, are you calling me "anti-Semitic"? Not really sure.

And if you need a lesson on how to quote other posters properly PM me. It's very easy.

Yes. We did not have a "very powerful lobby" in 1938, when the Nazis organized mass riots that targeted Jewish homes and businesses. Yes. We did not have a "very powerful lobby" in 1933, when Dachau opened for business. Yes. We did not have a "very powerful lobby" in 1939-45, when the Germans, with little Canadian or US opposition, gathered up almost all of Continental Europe's Jewry (except in Russia) and killed them.

If we didn't lobby, we'd be "sheeple" being used for mutton, not for wool.

NEVER AGAIN!!!

[gerryhatrick]

WTH?

There is a very powerful Jewish lobby in Canada and the USA which leverages it's power for political reasons.

You seem to agree...or, are you calling me "anti-Semitic"? Not really sure.

And if you need a lesson on how to quote other posters properly PM me. It's very easy.

Yes. We did not have a "very powerful lobby" in 1938, when the Nazis organized mass riots that targeted Jewish homes and businesses. Yes. We did not have a "very powerful lobby" in 1933, when Dachau opened for business. Yes. We did not have a "very powerful lobby" in 1939-45, when the Germans, with little Canadian or US opposition, gathered up almost all of Continental Europe's Jewry (except in Russia) and killed them.

If we didn't lobby, we'd be "sheeple" being used for mutton, not for wool.

NEVER AGAIN!!!

Good grief. Relax, for godsake.

I guess that establishes there's a Jewish lobby though!

[ft.niagara]

NEVER AGAIN!!!

Good grief. Relax, for godsake.

I guess that establishes there's a Jewish lobby though!

The problem is that through the use of a Jewish lobby, the foreign policy of a major country is being effected by a small percentage of the populace, possibly to the detriment of the major country (US). Israel offers no strategic benefit to the US. It will be interesting to see if the Democrat win will have a negative impact on that policy.

[jbg]

The problem is that through the use of a Jewish lobby, the foreign policy of a major country is being effected by a small percentage of the populace, possibly to the detriment of the major country (US). Israel offers no strategic benefit to the US. It will be interesting to see if the Democrat win will have a negative impact on that policy.

Oh really? Would you want your only forward bases in this volatile, but oil-rich part of the world to speak only Farsi or Arabic? Give your head a shake.

Israel is a stable, reliable democracy whose land can, if necessary, be used as a base to establish some control over the feral beasts of that area.

[GostHacked]

The problem is that through the use of a Jewish lobby, the foreign policy of a major country is being effected by a small percentage of the populace, possibly to the detriment of the major country (US). Israel offers no strategic benefit to the US. It will be interesting to see if the Democrat win will have a negative impact on that policy.

Oh really? Would you want your only forward bases in this volatile, but oil-rich part of the world to speak only Farsi or Arabic? Give your head a shake.

Israel is a stable, reliable democracy whose land can, if necessary, be used as a base to establish some control over the feral beasts of that area.

The ignorance in you shows with your use of 'feral beasts'. Have some decency for whatever's sake. If that is the case, again I have said it, WHY live among the beasts if you cannot tame them or reason with them. Is that not a lost cause? Would you not live in fear all the time? Would you just want to leave? Or is there something more here. Will this eventually establish a democracy among the savages? Do you think they can handle it? How long after you try to tame/control the animals until they get pissed off enough to do something about it?

If they spoke only Farsi? At least we would be able to really know what they are saying. Something can be said for knowing the local dialect. Most of those who control the oil speak Arabic.

[jbg]

The ignorance in you shows with your use of 'feral beasts'. Have some decency for whatever's sake. If that is the case, again I have said it, WHY live among the beasts if you cannot tame them or reason with them. Is that not a lost cause? Would you not live in fear all the time? Would you just want to leave? Or is there something more here. Will this eventually establish a democracy among the savages? Do you think they can handle it? How long after you try to tame/control the animals until they get pissed off enough to do something about it?

If they spoke only Farsi? At least we would be able to really know what they are saying. Something can be said for knowing the local dialect. Most of those who control the oil speak Arabic.

Leave to where? Europe? Heck, a guess their appetite for blood was satiated with 6 million, so maybe that's not such a bad idea after all < /sarcasm>

[sunsettommy]

The problem is that through the use of a Jewish lobby, the foreign policy of a major country is being effected by a small percentage of the populace, possibly to the detriment of the major country (US). Israel offers no strategic benefit to the US. It will be interesting to see if the Democrat win will have a negative impact on that policy.

Oh really? Would you want your only forward bases in this volatile, but oil-rich part of the world to speak only Farsi or Arabic? Give your head a shake.

Israel is a stable, reliable democracy whose land can, if necessary, be used as a base to establish some control over the feral beasts of that area.

The ignorance in you shows with your use of 'feral beasts'. Have some decency for whatever's sake. If that is the case, again I have said it, WHY live among the beasts if you cannot tame them or reason with them. Is that not a lost cause? Would you not live in fear all the time? Would you just want to leave? Or is there something more here. Will this eventually establish a democracy among the savages? Do you think they can handle it? How long after you try to tame/control the animals until they get pissed off enough to do something about it?

If they spoke only Farsi? At least we would be able to really know what they are saying. Something can be said for knowing the local dialect. Most of those who control the oil speak Arabic.

You have to be joking since those "feral beasts" are shelling over the walls unprovoked.They long ago made it clear that a dead jew is a good jew.They also long ago made it clear that the goal is to wipe Israel off the map.

Israel was born in the mid 1940's as a place where for once Jews can create a defense against the "feral beasts" that has risen up for nearly 2000 years.Who destroy their homes,their businesses and even take their lives.

The only other place of safety for Jews is in America.

A sad testament of Europe a supposedly socialism utopian where everyone can live in peace and harmony.Kumbaya and all that B.S. A region where there is strong anti-semitism.A region where 2 WW was fought by megalomanical dictators and a cold war because of a mass murderer in Stalin wanted to gobble the Europeans up.

America saved their asses and the Jews remember it but not those European assholes.

Israel is already a democratic nation in a sea of muslim slime.The only place where there is widespread potable water,a good standard of living,free association.They are a better people than the rest of muddle east.

Gosh those palestinians who live inside with the Jews are treated better than those living outside among the peace loving brothers (sarcasm).Something people like you fail to undestand that it is Israel whom we should support as a free people.The only civilized region populated by civilized people.

Jewish conspiracies have been alleged for a long time and yet never proven.

The B.S. must stop!

[Rue]

No please educate me. Give me specifics. Please.

The names of persons in the organizations that openly lobby foreign power brokers in the cause of Israel's interests are easily available on the net. I don't think I feel like doing your work for you in light of your recent accusation, no offense.

You didn't answer the subject. You made the statement that the lobby groups were "powerful" and I am calling you on it. You have changed the subject and now pretend all you did was suggest thes elobby groups exist. Stop being a coward. If you make opinion statements suggesting there are powerful Jewish lobby groups back up your point or cease and desist and admit you have no basis to describe them as "powerful" and to infer that somehow Jews conspire to control Canadian foreign policy is b.s. That was the point and no I am not suprised you don't have anything to back up your generalizations-that was the point I was making.

[Rue]

NEVER AGAIN!!!

Good grief. Relax, for godsake.

I guess that establishes there's a Jewish lobby though!

The problem is that through the use of a Jewish lobby, the foreign policy of a major country is being effected by a small percentage of the populace, possibly to the detriment of the major country (US). Israel offers no strategic benefit to the US. It will be interesting to see if the Democrat win will have a negative impact on that policy.

This is exactly what I was getting at people like this poster or Gerry who make sweeping generalizations about the alleged Jewish lobby and how it monpolizes power for only the good of a few. The above comments and the comments of Gerry or no different only the above comments are more blatant and less subtle in their blanket generalizations.

The above is just the same lie that has been promulgated for 4,000 years that Jews are these sinister evil creatures that manipulate the masses through their nefarious influence.

I challenge the above poster to actually substantiate how the Jewish lobby is in fact manipulating foreign policy to the detriment of the U.S. This is clearly a person's subjective feeling.

If this poster knew anything about the foreign policy process in the U.S. he would understand that in fact the major lobby groups in the US that influence US foreign policy are not Israel but in fact the US military-industrial complex number one, and in fact, the China lobby as no.2 in terms of the two most influential lobbies. The National Rifle Association other then these two lobby groups is the most powerful and the statistics as to how they are able to get Senators and Congressman to vote and the amounts of money their contribute are public record.

The above poster is expressing his subjective opinion based on probably his impressions garnered from reading some anti-Israeli articles on the inter-net as opposed to doing any homework for himself and finding out who in fact lobbies the US congress and senate and how they do it.

This is typical of how these idiot conversations start. People just shoot off at the mouth with subjective opinions as to who they think are powerful or influential with no basis and often its just the same old nonsense repeated and recycled over and over again.

If you look at the spending of foreign aid to Israel-which clearly this poster has not, he would understand the vast majority of it, was used to subsidize the US military-industrial complex which employs 6 of 10 Americans, and 8 of 10 Americans indirectly and depends on using Israel to test its equipment before it then goes on to sell this equipment.

And lest you think the US is the only military-industrial complex it is not, so are Britain, France, Belgium, Germany, North Korea, Iran, India, and of course China and Pakistan and many other countries.

If this poster bothered to get past his unsubstantiated biases, he would realize the no. 1 reason for foreign trade is to sell military hardware and to secure oil sources for the first world. Sorry but that has nothing to do with Jews as much as you would like us to think so.

[ft.niagara]

NEVER AGAIN!!!

Good grief. Relax, for godsake.

I guess that establishes there's a Jewish lobby though!

The problem is that through the use of a Jewish lobby, the foreign policy of a major country is being effected by a small percentage of the populace, possibly to the detriment of the major country (US). Israel offers no strategic benefit to the US. It will be interesting to see if the Democrat win will have a negative impact on that policy.

This is exactly what I was getting at people like this poster or Gerry who make sweeping generalizations about the alleged Jewish lobby and how it monpolizes power for only the good of a few. The above comments and the comments of Gerry or no different only the above comments are more blatant and less subtle in their blanket generalizations.

The above is just the same lie that has been promulgated for 4,000 years that Jews are these sinister evil creatures that manipulate the masses through their nefarious influence.

I challenge the above poster to actually substantiate how the Jewish lobby is in fact manipulating foreign policy to the detriment of the U.S. This is clearly a person's subjective feeling.

It is not only the Jewish lobby, it is the Christian lobby, and the Military Industrial Complex lobby who lobby for Israel. The fact is there is no benefit for the United States to arm Israel to the teeth with jets, helicopters, bombs for the possible use of Israel territory, for what? Apache helicopters are American helicopters to those in the middle east whether they are flown by Americans or Israelis. The American people are sorry for what happened to the Jews during WWII, but being sorry for what happened by Europeans should not shackel the United States to a virtual guarantee of Israel's existance. It is the Europeans, the Germans, the French, the Polish who should provide the guarantee. Any of those European countries who provided names and bodies for the ovens during WWII should provide the guarantee.

Your contention that the US needs Israel to test weapons for sale arbroad is laughable. Where did you get that one? Again, the US is the evil one, even in its protective posture on Israel, it is just a self serving ploy. If that is not a matter of opinion, I do not what is. Unsubstatiated bias?

Why should any American soldier die for the defense of Israel? When a soldier takes the oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States it does not mean protect and defend Iraq, or Taiwan, or Israel. Most Jews are antimilitary except when it comes to Israel, but the irony is that it is Israel which is the wellspring of much of the hatred and military misadventures from terrorist events on down. Who is ultimately enforcing the NEVER AGAIN promice, Americans. It is my contention that Americans can not and should not be the eternal enforcer.

I do not know if this answers what you asked, but how about you address some of my points. Why should the US be responsible for brokering peace deals? Why should the US be responsible for bankrolling the peace deals? Israel is half way around the world. The US is basicly a secular country with some religious roots. Being the birth place for Christianity is no big deal to me. I do not believe in the Armageddon of the Book of Revelation. In fact, as mad as you might have been about reading my short post, your response just reinforces my opinion in the matter.

I read now that the black Democrats are now more powerful than ever. As I said in my origional post, given the Democratic antimilitary tilt, plus the Black antiJewish tilt, it will be interesting to see how the next few years play out for Israel/US relations.

[ft.niagara]

I just saw the movie Borat. Another head scratcher. The comedian who plays Borat is named Cohen. I presume he is Jewish, yet it is the most antiJewish movie I have ever seen. The movie makers deflect the criticism by saying they are satarizing antisemitism. How is the running of the Jew satire? The female Jew lays an egg, and the towns people have to smash it before it hatches. And more......

[gerryhatrick]

I just saw the movie Borat. Another head scratcher. The comedian who plays Borat is named Cohen. I presume he is Jewish, yet it is the most antiJewish movie I have ever seen. The movie makers deflect the criticism by saying they are satarizing antisemitism. How is the running of the Jew satire? The female Jew lays an egg, and the towns people have to smash it before it hatches. And more......

Methinks you are having a problem with the concept of satire.

It's actually an anti-Muslim movie, if anything.

[gerryhatrick]

I challenge the above poster to actually substantiate how the Jewish lobby is in fact manipulating foreign policy to the detriment of the U.S. This is clearly a person's subjective feeling.

I don't believe I said it was to the "detriment" of the U.S.

You need to take more care with your accusations against other posters.

The interests of Israel are not by definition contrary to American interests.

The fact is though that there is an Israel lobby active in Washington. To claim otherwise is just willful ignorance.

[Black Dog]

You didn't answer the subject. You made the statement that the lobby groups were "powerful" and I am calling you on it. You have changed the subject and now pretend all you did was suggest thes elobby groups exist. Stop being a coward. If you make opinion statements suggesting there are powerful Jewish lobby groups back up your point or cease and desist and admit you have no basis to describe them as "powerful" and to infer that somehow Jews conspire to control Canadian foreign policy is b.s. That was the point and no I am not suprised you don't have anything to back up your generalizations-that was the point I was making

What, you've not heard of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). What about the (Jewish) poster above who was basically boasting about the existence of such a lobby?

[Rue]

You didn't answer the subject. You made the statement that the lobby groups were "powerful" and I am calling you on it. You have changed the subject and now pretend all you did was suggest thes elobby groups exist. Stop being a coward. If you make opinion statements suggesting there are powerful Jewish lobby groups back up your point or cease and desist and admit you have no basis to describe them as "powerful" and to infer that somehow Jews conspire to control Canadian foreign policy is b.s. That was the point and no I am not suprised you don't have anything to back up your generalizations-that was the point I was making

What, you've not heard of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). What about the (Jewish) poster above who was basically boasting about the existence of such a lobby?

At no time Blackdog have I ever referred to let alone boasted about the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. You are completely wrong but I won't go running to the moderator with my noise out of joint, just laugh.

[Rue]

I challenge the above poster to actually substantiate how the Jewish lobby is in fact manipulating foreign policy to the detriment of the U.S. This is clearly a person's subjective feeling.

I don't believe I said it was to the "detriment" of the U.S.

You need to take more care with your accusations against other posters.

The interests of Israel are not by definition contrary to American interests.

The fact is though that there is an Israel lobby active in Washington. To claim otherwise is just willful ignorance.

You stated and I quote;

"There is a very powerful Jewish lobby in Canada and the USA which leverages it's power for political reasons."

I have called you out on your use of the word "powerful" . You now seem to be suggesting all you have done is state there is a Jewish lobby. That is not what I responded to. No one is arguing there is a pro-Israel lobby and at no time have I denied that, What I am calling you on is the use of the word "powerful" and then referring to the lobby as being Jewish, as if all Jews are involved in it.

Do you describe the National Rifle Association as Christian because most of its members are? That is my point. Do you single out the NRA for being powerful? No. That is my point. You seem however to think it is ok to select out the pro-Israeli lobby and suggest it is "Jewish" and is "powerful", that conjures up precisely the kind of references I am questioning. Stop lumping all Jews into a political category and bringing up their ethnicity or religion when you refer to the pro-Israel lobby. That is what I am saying/asking/getting annoyed about.

When I read the use of the term "powerful" in relation to "leverages its power for political reasons" I read into that you were suggesting the "Jewish" lobby was engaging in activities contrary to and therefore to the detriment of the United States and Canada. If I am wrong on inferring that I apologize. However, to me it lent to the impression you were suggesting suggesting "Jews" as opposed to people, are involved in a lobby that engages in something different then any other lobby group otherwise you wouldn't have selectively singled it out. What I am saying is when Jews support Israel, it is singled out selectively but when any other ethnic group supports a cause, it is not and that is a double standard and it flows from the age old notion that Jews are conspiring against the world.

The lobby that supports Israel's right to exist and supports its interests also consists of Christians and many other non Jews and my point is, is no more powerful or successful then any other lobby group and do what they do lawfully and above board and to single it out is

b.s.

My other point was, for there to be the kind of trade there is between Israel and the U.S., it requires the military-industrial complex lobby of the U.S. to exist and prevail as the most powerful lobby group. When you look at the amount of funding and size of lobby groups, the pro-Israeli lobby groups are far from the biggest-the military industrial complex is followed by the NRA, tobbacco lobby, and in fact China,Taiwan, Japan and South Korea, if we are talking about successfully influential foreign policy lobbyists.

As well, when we are talking about lobby groups in Canada, it is a fact the B'Nai Brith, or Canada Israel Commitee (which is what I actually referred to Black Dog) are no more influential or powerful then any other lobby group.

That is the point I was making.

[Black Dog]

At no time Blackdog have I ever referred to let alone boasted about the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. You are completely wrong but I won't go running to the moderator with my noise out of joint, just laugh.

I never said you did, dude. I was talking about jbg.

No one is arguing there is a Jewish lobby. What I am calling you on is the use of the word "powerful".

Google cache.

When the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) began in the 1950s, only one name was associated with the newly formed organization -- Si Kenen -- founder and Washingtonian. Today, AIPAC has 100,000 members across all 50 states who are at the forefront of the most vexing issues facing Israel today: stopping Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, fighting terrorism and achieving peace. And above all, ensuring that Israel is strong enough to meet these challenges.

For these reasons, The New York Times has called AIPAC the most important organization affecting America's relationship with Israel, while Fortune magazine has consistently ranked AIPAC among America's most powerful interest groups.

I know you weren't talking about AIPAC, but I don't think any discussion of the Jewish/Israel loby can omit a mention of it.

[GostHacked]

And yet Rue has still not addressed my post a couple pages back. Skipped right over it and kept on going with the other posters/reactions/comments. I don't know if this is a sign, or Rue just cannot address what I have mentioned. But I await for a reply.

Black Dog, that link was very interesting. Seems like there is plenty of vocal support from the leaders in the US. People from the left and the right.

[ft.niagara]

I just saw the movie Borat. Another head scratcher. The comedian who plays Borat is named Cohen. I presume he is Jewish, yet it is the most antiJewish movie I have ever seen. The movie makers deflect the criticism by saying they are satarizing antisemitism. How is the running of the Jew satire? The female Jew lays an egg, and the towns people have to smash it before it hatches. And more......

Methinks you are having a problem with the concept of satire.

It's actually an anti-Muslim movie, if anything.

Have you seen it? I do not think it had its intended effect then.

[Rue]

At no time Blackdog have I ever referred to let alone boasted about the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. You are completely wrong but I won't go running to the moderator with my noise out of joint, just laugh.

I never said you did, dude. I was talking about jbg.

No one is arguing there is a Jewish lobby. What I am calling you on is the use of the word "powerful".

Google cache.

When the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) began in the 1950s, only one name was associated with the newly formed organization -- Si Kenen -- founder and Washingtonian. Today, AIPAC has 100,000 members across all 50 states who are at the forefront of the most vexing issues facing Israel today: stopping Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, fighting terrorism and achieving peace. And above all, ensuring that Israel is strong enough to meet these challenges.

For these reasons, The New York Times has called AIPAC the most important organization affecting America's relationship with Israel, while Fortune magazine has consistently ranked AIPAC among America's most powerful interest groups.

I know you weren't talking about AIPAC, but I don't think any discussion of the Jewish/Israel loby can omit a mention of it.

No problem. Is it signifigant what religion jbg is?

And between you and me Blackdog and Gerry I know what you are getting at, what I am getting at is I don't like lobby groups labelled as "Jewish" when what we really mean is pro-Israeli. I am sure you get my point. I do not think for a moment Gerry was being deliberately unfair. It is just a point I am making.

[Rue]

And yet Rue has still not addressed my post a couple pages back. Skipped right over it and kept on going with the other posters/reactions/comments. I don't know if this is a sign, or Rue just cannot address what I have mentioned. But I await for a reply.

Black Dog, that link was very interesting. Seems like there is plenty of vocal support from the leaders in the US. People from the left and the right.

I apologize if I ignored you. Please tell me what I skipped over. For heaven's sake if there is one thing I do not do, its avoid responding!!!LOL.

[Rue]

I went back Ghost and read the e-mail you were referring to. If your read my posts I did not call anyone anti-semitic although I do not like and I find it odious to inter-change the use of the word Jew and Jewish when we are describing pro-Israel lobbies the same reason we don't single out people's religions when they are in other lobby groups unless its a lobby group advocating Christian religious concepts, etc.

That is the point I was and am still making. As well, if you do want to suggest Jews are involved in a world conspiracy to run it and use Israel as a tool to control the world then yes I for one would say that is anti-semitic and bull.

Do I deny there is a pro-Israeli lobby and many of its members are Jewish, of course not. The point I am making is that the way Jews have been depicted involving themselves in world conspiracies can and should be called on and critcized. I wish to make clear not for one second was I questioning Gerry personally as he is far from a bigot and when I was responding to one of his posts I sounded like I was referring to him when I was only speaking about the issue, not to Gerry directly but it sounded like I was going at Gerry. I trust this responds to you.