We pay while Indians live in luxury

[gc1765]

It may be outdated, but if someone uses it once in a while or by mistake, it's harmless, and no one should really be overly upset.

What gives you the authority to determine what other people should and shouldn't get upset over?

[jennie]

Sure, and why should that be so offensive.

For instance some francophones might say of me

"He is English."

When in fact I am Canadian, and my last name is actually Irish. It's not a big deal Jennie. I usually use native myself, but if someone calls them Indians it's not a big deal. Nor should it be. It is not an insult.

Yes it is.

[jefferiah]

What gives you the authority to determine what other people should and shouldn't get upset over?

common sense

[jefferiah]

Yes it is.

An insult is something which degrades the quality of one's character. Indian has no degrading meaning. It was simply an issue of mistaken identity which stuck. Which is basically the same thing as someone referring to me as "English". Technically it is wrong. But it is not an insult, it is not intended as an insult, and there is no reason to be upset over it, unless people keep telling you its some sort of insult.

You can call me an Indian if you like.

[jennie]

An insult is something which degrades the quality of one's character. Indian has no degrading meaning. It was simply an issue of mistaken identity which stuck. Which is basically the same thing as someone referring to me as "English". Technically it is wrong. But it is not an insult, it is not intended as an insult, and there is no reason to be upset over it, unless people keep telling you its some sort of insult.

You can call me an Indian if you like.

An insult is something that someone perceives as an insult. Your opinion is irrelevant. What they prefer to be called is up to them, and they prefer not to be labelled with some 500 year old explorer's stupid mistake, li'l jeffie!

Why would I call you Indian? Are you?

[jbg]

An insult is something that someone perceives as an insult. Your opinion is irrelevant. What they prefer to be called is up to them, and they prefer not to be labelled with some 500 year old explorer's stupid mistake, li'l jeffie!

Why would I call you Indian? Are you?

My father's birth certificate read Jerome G________. He didn't know that until he and my mother decided to go to Europe in 1970, and thought his name was Jerome Bernard G_________. Do you think he destoyed his monogrammed attache case?

The FN's had a name in common usage for a long time. Does the entymology of that name really make a difference?

[jefferiah]

An insult is something that someone perceives as an insult. Your opinion is irrelevant. What they prefer to be called is up to them, and they prefer not to be labelled with some 500 year old explorer's stupid mistake, li'l jeffie!

Why would I call you Indian? Are you?

What they prefer to be called is up to them, sure. What someone else prefers to call them is up to that someone else.

Why would you call me an Indian? No I am not Indian, but I would perceive it as an insult if you didn't.

It was a word people used for another people. And people always have their own words for other peoples. Germans are actually Deutsche. In the end Indian is just a word. If you want to be upset over it that is up to you. I have no problem using the term native either, but I would not throw the book at someone for slipping up.

Edited October 14, 2007 by jefferiah

[Posit]

common sense

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. Albert Einstein

[Posit]

The FN's had a name in common usage for a long time. Does the entymology of that name really make a difference?

Sure. It is ong-weh-hon-weh (Iroquoian) or anish-a-na-bey (Ojibway). Both mean "human being".

[BornAlbertan]

Burn down the buildings...the treaties were only about land.

[jennie]

Burn down the buildings...the treaties were only about land.

Interesting that you mention that. Apparently according to our law now, whatever is attached to the land goes with the land.

[jennie]

What they prefer to be called is up to them, sure. What someone else prefers to call them is up to that someone else.

If 'someone else' wants to be a social moron, sure ... go ahead.

[ScottSA]

Interesting that you mention that. Apparently according to our law now, whatever is attached to the land goes with the land.

Including piles of ashes?

[kengs333]

Indigenous Peoples have a name for white folks that might be appropriate here: I can't spell it, but it means 'ghost people' or 'people of no substance, no humanity'.

Why is it that now only "whites" can be referred by their skin colour without controversy? The term "black" is still used to some extent, but it really isn't all that pc. Call an Indian a "red man," though, and it's somehow racist, as is referring to Asians as yellow. Maybe jennie and Posit can show some respect themselves and start refering to "whites" as either Europeans or by the specific nationality if it is known.

[jefferiah]

I disagree with you there, Kengs. I don't see anything offensive about being called white. It is just a term used to designate people with pale skin. Makes sense to me. Let the complainers complain.

[margrace]

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. Albert Einstein

Right on Posit, I have heard more garbage cited as Common Sense than I care to remember. I have heard it used to maintain and control lots of situations.

[ScottSA]

Why is it that now only "whites" can be referred by their skin colour without controversy? The term "black" is still used to some extent, but it really isn't all that pc. Call an Indian a "red man," though, and it's somehow racist, as is referring to Asians as yellow. Maybe jennie and Posit can show some respect themselves and start refering to "whites" as either Europeans or by the specific nationality if it is known.

I find "European" to be offensive. And "white" causes great angst. "Whitey" devalues me as a human being. I'd like to be called "Scottish," and more than that, I'd like to be called "Hiland Scottish," because we are the fighters, unlike ye lowland sassnatch loovers, ken? But since I'm not strictly Scottish, removed by several generations, I'd like to be called "Dispossessed Hiland Scottish Red River Settler who moved to BC." That name, and only that name, will allow me to flower as a fully potentialized human being.

[M.Dancer]

I find "European" to be offensive. And "white" causes great angst. "Whitey" devalues me as a human being. I'd like to be called "Scottish," and more than that, I'd like to be called "Hiland Scottish," because we are the fighters, unlike ye lowland sassnatch loovers, ken? But since I'm not strictly Scottish, removed by several generations, I'd like to be called "Dispossessed Hiland Scottish Red River Settler who moved to BC." That name, and only that name, will allow me to flower as a fully potentialized human being.

I would like to be separated from those who spell Hieland, Hiland.......Hiland......Sheesh...Hi land!! Hi Sky!! Hi Sea!! Hi Grassy Verdant filed of Azure Flowers.......this ain't fickin walt disney bigjobs.......

Wikipedia is now available in Heiland Scots English for those that care.

http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

[kengs333]

I find "European" to be offensive. And "white" causes great angst. "Whitey" devalues me as a human being. I'd like to be called "Scottish," and more than that, I'd like to be called "Hiland Scottish," because we are the fighters, unlike ye lowland sassnatch loovers, ken? But since I'm not strictly Scottish, removed by several generations, I'd like to be called "Dispossessed Hiland Scottish Red River Settler who moved to BC." That name, and only that name, will allow me to flower as a fully potentialized human being.

Well, given the fact that Scottish men like to wear dresses, I can think a few terms that are somewhat more exact than "Dispossessed Hiland Scottish Red River Settler who moved to BC". But I suppose stating them would get me banned.

[no queenslave]

Greetings,

I will try to make thiss as easy as possbile because the info can be quite convoluted.

first off, not many natives at tsu t'ina are upset about being dispalced while the old barracks are 're done'. there is a severe housing shortage there and from aboriginal perspective, no one is squatting. the land there was leased by the dnd and the lease ran out a few years ago. the army didn't feel the need to re-lease as was cutting back so moved soldierss and their families to edmonton. the dnd took down all their buildings save for the barracks.

another thing they left behind was a lot of live ammo, like bombs. the chief at the time secured a contract for the tsu t'ina to be trained to clean up. the chief was negligent , as was the dnd, not to fence off the area and put signs up (there was one). even with one sign, young children and some elders cannot read. there were at least two injuries, a woman's arm blown off and someone else lost an eye.

the chief was voted out, rightfully so.

if the dnd left the barraks up and did not make arrangments for rentals, basically the abandoned it, and it's on tsu t'ina land then it is not squatting....these people had every right to move in.

the tsu t'ina reserve is not a rich one. it has no oil or other resources to exploit. most live in poverty.

NATIVE INDIANS DID NOT CHOSE TO LIVE ON RESERVES, THEY WERE FORCED TO. their traditional lands branch out far further then the reserves. just about every treaty signed was through coeresion or signatures were forged by the conquerors. the majority of tribes were mother clan where women are the stewards of the land and not allowed to sell, so it goes both ways that treaties are false.....yes people, you all live on native land.

even with the signing of illegal treaties, the treaties were and never have been honoured. the amount of money owing, with interest, is very high.

according to canada's own rule of law , natives are protected. this goes back to queen anne and still holds and is also in canada's constitution. canada has constantly contravened it's own rule of law regarding treaties and claims. your tax dollars are constantly wasted through court procedings fighting treaties and claims. if something isn't done about this, ie, canada respecting it's own law, then your great great grandchildren will still be paying for this countries mistakes.

this is not just a matter of having to pay for your forefather's mistakes. the mistakes continue. you are paying because the governments of canada refuse to recognize their own laws.

the kelowna accord was a step in the right direction. it was a move forward to help prepare natives for the day they can rightfully be proclaimed sovereign ......then they can support themselves. think: the department of indian affairs, that top heavy, wasteful and distasteful agency can be eliminated.

for the tsu t'ina to build a casino is their own business ..... and the money is procured just like if you were to start one up....by loan.

if they are asking for water and the infrastructure for it, this is a small price compared to what they are owed in terms of money and land. perhaps looking at it from the perspective that you are getting off easy is a more correct outlook.

assimilation is not an option, it is a choice and one most would not make. natie culture is different. fi the chinese conquered here tomorrow, would you want them to force you to be part of their society? you would have to learn chinese, eat chinese, breath chinese. the mosaic priniciple is fine to a degree and is really only applicable in cities. a reservatiion is not a city. it is a village with a lot of rural land where natives can maintain culture and language. if the chinese were to herd you onto reserves you may be happier then if you were to live amongst them , even if your conditions weren't so hot.

natives pay taxes too....anytime they buy off the reserve (frequently), illegally at the gas pumps where klein slapped the provincial sales tax on. with wages.

the best thing you can do if you are not happy with your tax dollars going to underpay what is owed natives, is to pressure your m.p.'s and mla's to reinstate the kelowna accord and have them settle treaties and land claims, and grant sovereignty.

until the wrong doing has been cleared up, teh quagmire will continue. you are getting ripped off by the government, but for the wrong thing. knowing some history, law and culture will teach you this.

you still smoking grass, and have no clue. move to Israel. Nobody took your land; you were just squatters pilfering the resources of the land.. If you claim the land so can anybody else. Provide a copy of your registered title. the same goes for the queen, and all her pimps called mp's.

maybe you would like to be a palistinian in a prison camp as provided by the jews. How would you like the government to come in an flatten your houses because you keep complaining. nobody owes you and all your desendants a free ride-you just act like a leach.

Edited October 19, 2007 by no queenslave

[Posit]

you still smoking grass, and have no clue. move to Israel. Nobody took your land; you were just squatters pilfering the resources of the land.. If you claim the land so can anybody else. Provide a copy of your registered title. the same goes for the queen, and all her pimps called mp's.

maybe you would like to be a palistinian in a prison camp as provided by the jews. How would you like the government to come in an flatten your houses because you keep complaining. nobody owes you and all your desendants a free ride-you just act like a leach.

Oy vey Another ignorunt just entered the circle of jerks.

[margrace]

Not much wonder the peoples of the world can't get along, we have a real big problem at home. Lots of fire breathing dragons out there.

[DogOnPorch]

It hails back to the days - actually over 100 years - when white people just ignored the agony of the Indigenous Peoples as they were herded onto reserves and into schools, and oppressed and abused beyond belief. The white people passed by it all like ghosts, without acknowledging and "without a shred of humanity".

You might want to read some of the history books about what Native/European (did I get that PC enough?? ) relationships were actually like in British Columbia. For example settlers had to put up with some very murderous tribes...the Haida and Tsilhqot'in in particular. There was the Chilcotin war and numerous other skirmishes that made life miserable and oppresive for all parties.

In many areas of the province, these old hatreds are just below the surface...on both sides. This due mainly to much of the province being under 100 years in terms of Natives being 'civilized'. Places like Ontario etc went through what BC did well in the past...1700s. Still very 'Cowboys & Indians' at times out west...

Bruce A. McKelvie's (a BC reporter/historian d. 1961) 'Tales of Conflict' is a good read for this period of time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's the smell of money.

---WAC Bennett reacting to complaints of smelly pulpmills.

[margrace]

So what does this prove Dogonporch other than the Natives were fighting to keep their land, is that wrong?

[Guest trex]

Its a shameful part of Canadas past, what the europeans did to the natives when they came to this continent. The empire simply crushed anyone who wanted to be different, native lifestyle was in conflict with european agricultral societies.

It was, and is, a silent holocaust, for which there has never been any real atonement.

And might I point out, much of this abuse was done by members of the christian church, the priests and nuns, the jesuits who attempted to christianize them.