Do you trust the police?

[Higgly]

Comments are welcome..... I feel that the police are inherently untrustworthy. It has nothing to do with their performance at any given time, but more to do with the power that they hold.

[Remiel]

I voted yes, but there are some qualifiers I suppose too. I trust cops individually when the are doing their normal duties. The problem is when the get them in groups, like at rallies. What bothers me most about rallies is how ugly police behaviour can get, whereas individually they are mostly good people, when you give a group of them a you vs. them mentallity, it gets dangerous.

[Higgly]

My problem with them is that once they lay a charge, they cannot back down. They have massive investigative and legal powers at their disposal, but unless the crown reigns them in, the accused gets a rough and very expensive ride through the legal system.

I feel we need more civilian oversight. Toronto pretty much caved in to the police under Mel Lastman (mayor) and Julian Fantino (chief of police - and now head of the OPP). The city was in a budget crisis, swimming pools for kids were being shut down left and right, the streets were littered with garbage, the crime rate was falling, and yet Fantino was able to get successive budget increases, even though he was running a racist force that targeted blacks unfairly - something he refused to admit.

Fantino was helped a lot by the local ambulance chaser channel (CITY TV) which devoted an entire half hour per week to a call in program in which the chief fielded questions from the public. The program is still on with the current chief. You don't see the fire chief or the head of public works showing up every week putching his agenda.

One of the principles of democracy is supposed to be that the police answer to the elected officials. What ever happened to that?

[FTA Lawyer]

I thought quite a while about this question before voting "yes". The reason this was so difficult for me is that my job requires me on a daily basis to analyse police conduct with a significant level of suspicion.

Furthermore, I actually do deal with many situations where police have acted unlawfully or unethically and sometimes even to such extent that they lie under oath or themselves commit criminal acts.

That being said, I had to remind myself that for every one of these instances I see, there are literally thousands of "routine" interactions between police and the public every day.

On top of this little "step back" that I took, I realized that if I ever was being mugged or in any other type of danger, I would have absolutely no hesitation in calling out for and accepting help from the police.

Not having lived in a place with true police corruption, I think many North Americans really don't realize how good our police forces are and how, generally speaking, they deserve our trust.

FTA

[fellowtraveller]

Trust?

No, that would be simply foolish.

Like any group they have their own self serving dynamic and agenda.

I have personally witnessed a police officer commit perjury twice in court, on one occasion it resulted in a jail sentence for the accused as a direct result.

But I'd still call them for assistance, I'm paying for it and expect no less.

[Higgly]

...I realized that if I ever was being mugged or in any other type of danger, I would have absolutely no hesitation in calling out for and accepting help from the police.

Not having lived in a place with true police corruption...

Yes, but if you were being mugged, you would call out to anybody who might help.

I agree with you about 'true' police corruption, though. There are many places in the world that are much, much worse.

However, a cop sending someone to jail on false testimony is bloody awful. An innocent person whose life is destroyed by a lie. The liar goes home to dinner, the accused goes to jail and lives a life of reduced expectations.

Unacceptable.

[Canadian Blue]

I have personally witnessed a police officer commit perjury twice in court, on one occasion it resulted in a jail sentence for the accused as a direct result.

How do you know it was perjury?

I think the police deserve our respect and trust. I've never had anything negative to say about the police, so far they seem to be very professional, and I think they do the best job they can, even without support from the public.

"Everybody hates a cop until they need one"

I feel we need more civilian oversight. Toronto pretty much caved in to the police under Mel Lastman (mayor) and Julian Fantino (chief of police - and now head of the OPP). The city was in a budget crisis, swimming pools for kids were being shut down left and right, the streets were littered with garbage, the crime rate was falling, and yet Fantino was able to get successive budget increases, even though he was running a racist force that targeted blacks unfairly - something he refused to admit.

But then again, alot of people will pull out the race card in order to get out of trouble and not take responsibility for their actions. I read that TPS is one of the most diverse police agencies in the country. If you wanna throw out the race card again back it up with facts.

[Higgly]

How about the Jamma Jamma case?

Everybody hates a cop until they need one

Who else are you gonna call who has a gun?

[JerrySeinfeld]

Cops are like the USA.

They wield a great about of power - and as a result responsibility as well. It's not absolute power but it's there.

From time to time those with power overstep their boundaries.

Example: from time to time some observes might say "that cop (or the USA) is using too much force to get that criminal into line". Others might disagree.

In other words, people will always disagree with how the cops (the USA) use their power and whether or not it's being handled responsibly and in the best interests of the greater good.

But generally speaking, when the criminal comes knocking at your door, thank god the cops (the USA) exist.

[fellowtraveller]

I have personally witnessed a police officer commit perjury twice in court, on one occasion it resulted in a jail sentence for the accused as a direct result.

How do you know it was perjury?

I think the police deserve our respect and trust. I've never had anything negative to say about the police, so far they seem to be very professional, and I think they do the best job they can, even without support from the public.

"Everybody hates a cop until they need one"

I feel we need more civilian oversight. Toronto pretty much caved in to the police under Mel Lastman (mayor) and Julian Fantino (chief of police - and now head of the OPP). The city was in a budget crisis, swimming pools for kids were being shut down left and right, the streets were littered with garbage, the crime rate was falling, and yet Fantino was able to get successive budget increases, even though he was running a racist force that targeted blacks unfairly - something he refused to admit.

But then again, alot of people will pull out the race card in order to get out of trouble and not take responsibility for their actions. I read that TPS is one of the most diverse police agencies in the country. If you wanna throw out the race card again back it up with facts.

How do I know it was perjury?

Simple.

In both cases, I witnessed the incident/arrest, then was in court when the officer testified They lied about what happened in one case, in the other they lied about what was said to them by the accused and he went to jail. In both cases, it was the sworn testimony of a police officer vs. an ordinary citizen- me.

And I don't hate cops at all, far from it.

But I do not trust them as individuals or as a group.

And here is a reason/case why others feel the same way. Last spring, during the police overreaction to Stanley Cup partying on the streets of Edmonton, a police officer apparently assaulted a young woman. The entire incident was captured by the media, who pubisihed a series of photos documenting the incident. A handcuffed woman was grabbed and thrown facefirst into the pavement by a police officer. Handcuffed. She presented no threat whatsoever. Six months later, no charges have been laid and the EPS remains mute.

[Higgly]

Hmmm. This was a federal post, Seinfeld. Are you saying you would invite the US Military in to police things?

[watching&waiting]

I have witnessed many time where the police have broken law after laws because they know most people can not do anything to them as long as they present a unted front. I would have to say that at least 80% of police officers are like this.

I also have been on the receiving end in some things and yes if you strike them back when they strike you they then try to lay all kinds of charges against you. They see this as overwhelming you, as their right to do. It is not their right and it is against the law. I never had any problems with officers who if they stop you and ask for Id and do what they need to chack and then give you back your stuff and that is that. It is when they want to talk down to you and they believe you will cowwer and allow then to step all over your rights.

I no longer have any respect for the vast majority of officers, and the one I do respect are few, but they do their jobs within the law and that is what I will always respect about them. If we could clean up the forces and get rid of the bad apples I may once again put faith in them, but not until them.

[gerryhatrick]

The police are untrustworthy because they have power?

Uh...the police require power in order to protect and serve us. I know several police and I trust them all. Police are like other people though, some are untrustworthy.

We hear A LOT about them, of course, giving some the impression that a large proportion of cops are dishonest pricks.

[Canadian Blue]

And here is a reason/case why others feel the same way. Last spring, during the police overreaction to Stanley Cup partying on the streets of Edmonton, a police officer apparently assaulted a young woman. The entire incident was captured by the media, who pubisihed a series of photos documenting the incident. A handcuffed woman was grabbed and thrown facefirst into the pavement by a police officer. Handcuffed. She presented no threat whatsoever. Six months later, no charges have been laid and the EPS remains mute.

Who also happened to spit on the police officer who had made the arrest thus assaulting the officer. If the media can ever get a good story of supposed police brutality they'll jump on it, even if the officer is proven innocent.

I also have been on the receiving end in some things and yes if you strike them back when they strike you they then try to lay all kinds of charges against you. They see this as overwhelming you, as their right to do. It is not their right and it is against the law. I never had any problems with officers who if they stop you and ask for Id and do what they need to chack and then give you back your stuff and that is that. It is when they want to talk down to you and they believe you will cowwer and allow then to step all over your rights.

What do you mean when you say "strike them back"? I've been on the recieving end of an idiot cop as well in Barrie. But in the end I realize that they get treated like shit each day, get little or no support from the general public, and many suffer from PTSD. If you don't break the law, and act like a responsible adult you have nothing to worry about. If a police officer does abuse his power then thats what IA is for.

[BubberMiley]

I live in Winnipeg. Even little old ladies don't trust the police in Winnipeg. They curb-stomp cyclists here for blocking traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2CRqo_dL0

[Canadian Blue]

Who else are you gonna call who has a gun?

Buy one for yourself then. If you don't trust the police get a gun, it is legal in Canada afterall.

I live in Winnipeg. Even little old ladies don't trust the police in Winnipeg. They curb-stomp cyclists here for blocking traffic.

Well it looked like the cyclist ran into the police, and from what it looks like it was a fairly anti-police crowd there. As well it wasn't simply for blocking traffic, I think assaulting police is a pretty stupid thing to do as well. I haven't noticed any police brutality in Winnipeg, besides the more police their is the better.

If you feel the police are really untrustworthy then check out this website.

http://www.copwatch.com/

[geoffrey]

Apparently the cops in Calgary are taking guns from the current gun amnesty and selling them.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/s...7d783a5&k=0

[Figleaf]

I voted 'no'. But in fact, I trust the police more than I trust many other groups. It's just I don't trust the police implicitly.

While I believe our police in Canada are probably better than 80-99% of police in other parts of the world, I nevertheless perceive worrying aspects of the record of our police here. The RCMP have several recent black marks on their credibility including Arar, the death of Ian Bush, the seemingly groundless search of that reporter in Ottawa. Various city police forces also have more than merely occasional problems, such as the Jamma Jamma case, the case of the woman left alone in a police holding cell over the weekend in Brampton, Ontario, or the Toronto drug squad scandal.

Then there is the very worrisome record of wrongful convictions across Canada. The whole justice system seems implicated in those problems, including the police.

So, 'trust'? Only to a degree.

[Argus]

Comments are welcome..... I feel that the police are inherently untrustworthy. It has nothing to do with their performance at any given time, but more to do with the power that they hold.

I voted yes, but the question is too sweeping. Do I trust police without question? God, no. Police are faillible, like anyone else. Just as there are crooked lawyers and corrupt politicians there are rotten cops.

It's a very difficult job, and most interplay between them and citizens at large is, of neccessity, unpleasant for both parties.

Yes, I've seen cops be jerks, macho, arrogant jerks. And I don't like the techniques they've been taught to intimidate people, the loud, obnoxious voice, ordering people flat on the pavement and kneeling on them, that sort of thing. Yes, there are times it might be required, but I've seen it misued a lot because it's standard training. Cops are trained to treat every person as if they are a possible threat, and it shows in their behaviour. And quite aside from that cops get a sense of arrogance, after a short while. It's an arrogance which does not brook disagreement. A cop reallly does not like it when you question them, when you argue, when you fail to obey, even on minor things. There is that mentality which I really don't like. Remember the cop in the store in Montreal who beat up the citizen who came in to complain he was double parked?

That being said, most cops become cops because they're idealists, because they're well-meaning, because they want to help people. Cops will run into burning buildings to rescue people. They will run down dark alleys because they hear a scream. They will jump into the river to rescue someone drowning. They see a lot of terrible things, and their interractions with the public, especially the violence, even if it's just the violence of laying on hands and handcuffing, changes their yardstick of what is and is not violence. But aside from a few bad apples, most of them are basically, at heart, out to help people. Which is not something you can say about many other professions.

[jbg]

Comments are welcome..... I feel that the police are inherently untrustworthy. It has nothing to do with their performance at any given time, but more to do with the power that they hold.

What alternative do you have in mind? We have the same problem stateside, but sometimes the police show some very good colors, such as the ones that rushed into the World Trade Center on Septembrer 11.

They're not all bad by a longshot.

[geoffrey]

Comments are welcome..... I feel that the police are inherently untrustworthy. It has nothing to do with their performance at any given time, but more to do with the power that they hold.

What alternative do you have in mind? We have the same problem stateside, but sometimes the police show some very good colors, such as the ones that rushed into the World Trade Center on Septembrer 11.

They're not all bad by a longshot.

Not at all bad, I have enormous respect for police... I have many police officers in my family (OPP and RCMP) and had even applied and was accepted for RCMP training (even though I'm a white male, pretty crazy).

There are always a few bad people in any group... priests, police, doctors... it's inescapable. The police do a pretty good job of monitoring their behavoir, though there is some issues within specific police organizations in Canada (Winnipeg and some areas of the RCMP come to mind... no possibility their aggressive affirmative action has something to do with it?).

All in all I trust the police. They are considerably underpaid for their work and the danger they face, and a few of them do abuse their authority... it happens. But at the end of the day, they are generally good people.

[Ladyjen]

Fortunately, I have not had much to do with cops but I am damn glad they are there for us. By and large I believe that most are honest and are in it for the right reasons. I agree geoffrey, they are underpaid.