Ignatieff proposes to recognize Quebec as a nation

[M.Dancer]

Now you're just sulking. Celtic music is played everywhere. And the Civil Code and its language are merely variations of France's law and language. So big deal.

No one asked you to prove you don't know what you are talking about, but thanks anyway.

There isn't one style of celtic music....

There's Scottish

Irish

Welsh

Bretagne

Cape Breton

New foundland

Gaspe

Gatineau

Manitoban........

........and each is unique to its roots

[M.Dancer]

So the celtic music of quebec isn't distinct?

If you say it is I'll take your word for it.

Quite a while back a friend of mine took up morris dancing. In Montreal. He hasn't stopped dancing ever since. My question is, are Quebec's morris dancers also distinct from the regular ones?

Could be. Which style of Morris Dancing did he take up? Cotswald, Border, Northwest, Molly Dancing, Abbots, Horn Dancing.....each is unique to the particular region where it developed....But I will leave it to the giant braintrust to figure out if a fringe activity enjoyed by dozens constitutes a popular culture

[M.Dancer]

I didn't destroy the education system.

Did you attend?

[Riverwind]

nation –noun

1. a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own: The president spoke to the nation about the new tax.

2. the territory or country itself: the nations of Central America.

3. a member tribe of an American Indian confederation.

4. an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages.

I think Quebec qualifies as a nation. The only real issue is whether calling Quebec a nation helps or hurts the separatist cause. My gut feel is it does neither since it simply acknowledges the self-evident. OTH - we could turn this into another Meech Lake/Distinct Society debacle where our unwillingness to state the obvious becomes a reason for seperation.

[M.Dancer]

nation –noun

1. a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own: The president spoke to the nation about the new tax.

2. the territory or country itself: the nations of Central America.

3. a member tribe of an American Indian confederation.

4. an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages.

I think Quebec qualifies as a nation. The only real issue is whether calling Quebec a nation helps or hurts the separatist cause. My gut feel is it does neither since it simply acknowledges the self-evident. OTH - we could turn this into another Meech Lake/Distinct Society debacle where our unwillingness to state the obvious becomes a reason for seperation.

I think the whole province/ ottawa relationship should be revisited, not just for quebec but for all of us.

Quebec'd distinctiveness is they have just been ahead of the rest on this. Some of the issues they want more power over are they same the other provinces want ........

[Leafless]

nation –noun

1. a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own: The president spoke to the nation about the new tax.

2. the territory or country itself: the nations of Central America.

3. a member tribe of an American Indian confederation.

4. an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages.

I think Quebec qualifies as a nation. The only real issue is whether calling Quebec a nation helps or hurts the separatist cause. My gut feel is it does neither since it simply acknowledges the self-evident. OTH - we could turn this into another Meech Lake/Distinct Society debacle where our unwillingness to state the obvious becomes a reason for seperation.

Your rational is flawed.

The definition of a country is: 1a: The territory of a nation with it's own government.

Technically all ten provinces in Canada could be considered or qualify as a nation with no other special status outside of it's legal provincial definition as a province.

If Quebec wants to be it's country let them SEPARATE and I think the sooner the better for this bunch of arrogant troublemakers.

[Argus]

I didn't destroy the education system.

Did you attend?

Not only did I attend, but since graduation I've grown out of sulking.

Perhaps one day you will too.

Maybe then you'll learn that Montreal is not a culture and gaspe is not a tradition.

[Argus]

How does English Canada differ from the U.S.?

Both speak the same language, watch the same TV shows, movies, read the same magazines. There is no noticeable difference in their musics. Their respective government systems are quite parallel, except that Canada is stil stuck with medieval relics like monarchy and still needs to evolve to catch up with the U.S.; its differences in their laws and legal systems are a matter of details. Theirs foods and cuisine are similar. Their histories are so entertwined that any difference is either a matter of perspective, or very regional.

Ever been to Canada or the US?

[M.Dancer]

I didn't destroy the education system.

Did you attend?

Not only did I attend, but since graduation I've grown out of sulking.

Perhaps one day you will too.

Maybe then you'll learn that Montreal is not a culture and gaspe is not a tradition.

Apparently though, reading comprehension wasn't one of your subjects. Must have taken intellectual dishonesty instead, otherwise you would have been honest enough to acknowledge that I didn't say they were. But hey, if you need to lie in order to make your impotent point, go to it.

[Biblio Bibuli]

How does English Canada differ from the U.S.?

Both speak the same language, watch the same TV shows, movies, read the same magazines. There is no noticeable difference in their musics. Their respective government systems are quite parallel, except that Canada is stil stuck with medieval relics like monarchy and still needs to evolve to catch up with the U.S.; its differences in their laws and legal systems are a matter of details. Theirs foods and cuisine are similar. Their histories are so entertwined that any difference is either a matter of perspective, or very regional.

Ever been to Canada or the US?

I've been to many U.S. cities, from coast to coast, and I agree with Seabee ... I don't feel any difference.

BTW, Argus, you forgot to answer Seabee's main question:

"Don't you think Québec is far more different from the Rest of Canada than the latter is from the U.S.?"

When I go to Montreal, it's a completely different world out there. It's like being in another country altogether.

Ever been to Montreal or Quebec City?

[BubberMiley]

How does English Canada differ from the U.S.?

Both speak the same language, watch the same TV shows, movies, read the same magazines. There is no noticeable difference in their musics. Their respective government systems are quite parallel, except that Canada is stil stuck with medieval relics like monarchy and still needs to evolve to catch up with the U.S.; its differences in their laws and legal systems are a matter of details. Theirs foods and cuisine are similar. Their histories are so entertwined that any difference is either a matter of perspective, or very regional.

Ever been to Canada or the US?

I've been all over both and I'd say the differences are largely imperceptible, other than the regional accents.

[M.Dancer]

[i've been all over both and I'd say the differences are largely imperceptible, other than the regional accents.

I don't know.....seeing armed guards in the drug stores in Bufaloo makes you pause.....taking the train to florida is a nice slice of life.....

[mcqueen625]

I want my own nation. If the Quebecois and Indians get them, why can't I?

Sure: why don't you come up with your own distinct language, customs, cultural traditions, etc.

Please provide a short list of Quebec's distinct customs and cultural traditions.

A short incomplete list in no particular order

reviellons....boite a chansons.....festive des homards.....carnaval, sugering offs, feveres au lard....tortiere.....the most succesful film, television and literature industries in Canada, distinctive archeteture of la beause, gaspe, montreal.....cirque de soliel, celtic music........bagels, smoked meat, may wests, POM bakeries....kik cola, beire des pins, pea soup, St patricks day, social tollerance and equality, brutal winters, civil code, maiden names, revenche de creche.....Les Patriotes de ste Agathe.....

Film?? Who watches mediocre Canadian crap. If you're talking about the porn on the French networks, then I guess they do have some film, but who in hell wants to watch dubbed or sub-titled crap on tv that they are paying good money to receive from either the cable or satellite providers. I discontinued the Movie Network subscription due to the lousy Canadian crap from Quebec.

Quebec is a province and should not receive any special recognition, and especially no more moeny until they either decide to stay or go. Go would be my preferred option, and they can take their Acadian friends with them.

[M.Dancer]

Film?? Who watches mediocre Canadian crap. If you're talking about the porn on the French networks, then I guess they do have some film, but who in hell wants to watch dubbed or sub-titled crap on tv that they are paying good money to receive from either the cable or satellite providers. I discontinued the Movie Network subscription due to the lousy Canadian crap from Quebec.

Quebec is a province and should not receive any special recognition, and especially no more moeny until they either decide to stay or go. Go would be my preferred option, and they can take their Acadian friends with them.

Well I guess any discussion with you about quebec film would be like casting pearls before the swine, seeing that you don't watch it and only surf fench TV for soft porn...perhaps when there's a thread about cretinism and philistine culture, we can engage.

For the others who might be interested, Quebec film consistantly turns a profit and wins great reviews and awards Without googling i can think of a number that made the investor rich and the critics applaud.

Bad Cop Bon Cop

Decline of the American Empire

Barbarian Invasions

Kamouraska

Leolo

Les Boys

Une Zoo La Nuit

L'ange et la Femme

Jesus of Montreal

The Confessional

Mon Oncle Antoinne

Red Violin

It should be noted in 2004 the Toronto International Film Festival's all time top 10 canadian films included 6 from quebec.

[Leafless]

Film?? Who watches mediocre Canadian crap. If you're talking about the porn on the French networks, then I guess they do have some film, but who in hell wants to watch dubbed or sub-titled crap on tv that they are paying good money to receive from either the cable or satellite providers. I discontinued the Movie Network subscription due to the lousy Canadian crap from Quebec.

Quebec is a province and should not receive any special recognition, and especially no more moeny until they either decide to stay or go. Go would be my preferred option, and they can take their Acadian friends with them.

Well I guess any discussion with you about quebec film would be like casting pearls before the swine, seeing that you don't watch it and only surf fench TV for soft porn...perhaps when there's a thread about cretinism and philistine culture, we can engage.

For the others who might be interested, Quebec film consistantly turns a profit and wins great reviews and awards Without googling i can think of a number that made the investor rich and the critics applaud.

Bad Cop Bon Cop

Decline of the American Empire

Barbarian Invasions

Kamouraska

Leolo

Les Boys

Une Zoo La Nuit

L'ange et la Femme

Jesus of Montreal

The Confessional

Mon Oncle Antoinne

Red Violin

It should be noted in 2004 the Toronto International Film Festival's all time top 10 canadian films included 6 from quebec.

If their films are so successful, why then can't they finance their films themselves, rather then depend on government handouts like Telefilm.

[M.Dancer]

If their films are so successful, why then can't they finance their films themselves, rather then depend on government handouts like Telefilm.

To save yourself the humiliation, you want a chance to find out how Telefilm financing works and what happens when movies go black before I answer that?

[seabee]

English Canada will never be able to do as well as Québec in cultural industries because... they speak English; and so do the U.S., and since the U.S. offers bigger salaries, lower taxes, better prospects, more world-wide exposure, without having to learn a second language and without culture schock, English-canadian born talents, of which I'm sure there are many, move to the U.S. as soon as they have gained enough notoriety and forget about Canada.

[Argus]

I didn't destroy the education system.

Did you attend?

Not only did I attend, but since graduation I've grown out of sulking.

Perhaps one day you will too.

Maybe then you'll learn that Montreal is not a culture and gaspe is not a tradition.

Apparently though, reading comprehension wasn't one of your subjects. Must have taken intellectual dishonesty instead, otherwise you would have been honest enough to acknowledge that I didn't say they were. But hey, if you need to lie in order to make your impotent point, go to it.

Oh, do please excuse me. When I asked you to provide a brief list of Quebec's distinct customs and traditions and you answered "Here is a brief list, and listed bagels, Montreal, smoked meat, and cold winters, I foolishly assumed you were answering the question I had posed. I see now that you were answering a question nobody had asked which related to your food choices, where you buy the best porn, and what you didn't like about Quebec.

[Argus]

How does English Canada differ from the U.S.?

Both speak the same language, watch the same TV shows, movies, read the same magazines. There is no noticeable difference in their musics. Their respective government systems are quite parallel, except that Canada is stil stuck with medieval relics like monarchy and still needs to evolve to catch up with the U.S.; its differences in their laws and legal systems are a matter of details. Theirs foods and cuisine are similar. Their histories are so entertwined that any difference is either a matter of perspective, or very regional.

Ever been to Canada or the US?

I've been to many U.S. cities, from coast to coast, and I agree with Seabee ... I don't feel any difference.

I feel a great deal of difference even between American cities, let alone between them and us. Charlotte does not have the same feel as New York. Boston does not have the same feel as Dallas. Ottawa is nothing like Buffalo and Calgary is really nothing like Houston. There are fundamental differences of assusmption between there and here, especially about the role of government, about the sanctity of private property, and about religion, among many others.

BTW, Argus, you forgot to answer Seabee's main question:

"Don't you think Québec is far more different from the Rest of Canada than the latter is from the U.S.?"

When I go to Montreal, it's a completely different world out there. It's like being in another country altogether.

Ever been to Montreal or Quebec City?

I grew up in Montreal, and to be honest, it doesn't strike me as all that much different. Perhaps if you don't have much experience with Francophones you might see Montrealers as amazingly different because of their language, but I work mostly with Francophones The differences between the people on the Quebec side of the river and the Ontario side are not that great. Aside from a fixation on their language, and a tendency to be more left of centre, that is.

[Rue]

O.k. so I have children. They all ask me who their favourite is. I say, well, I don't really have any. What I say is, each child has their own unique attributes. So I try find a way to recognize each as an individual but then remind them they are still part of a larger family.

My problem with one child is I really found him walking on the streets. When I went to build my home he was already on the land and I realized I couldn't throw him off and just ignore him. So with that child, he has a different history and I have always taken the time to deal with his specific problems differently because for example he has diabetes from having eaten badly when he was young and he has emotional problems from sexual abuse and he is an alcoholic. I have another child with a language problem and another feels alienated because he feels he is always let out of the action. Then I have the last born child and the youngest who definitely is unique and seems to sing his own tune. Yah all these children are a handful.

Now the other day some putz from Harvard University came to my house and told me I have to take the kid with the language problem and make him feel special. So I said to this putz, oh really..and which one of us will end up paying his bills at the end of the day.

I can't stand academics who tell me how to raise my children.

[jbg]

Why are the Liberals bent on destroying Canada and I truly wonder if Mr. Ignatieff can honestly refer to himself as a Canadian in more ways than one?

Trudeau worked "divide and conquer" into an art form. It's the Liberal pattern of saving the country by destroying it.

[M.Dancer]

I didn't destroy the education system.

Did you attend?

Not only did I attend, but since graduation I've grown out of sulking.

Perhaps one day you will too.

Maybe then you'll learn that Montreal is not a culture and gaspe is not a tradition.

Apparently though, reading comprehension wasn't one of your subjects. Must have taken intellectual dishonesty instead, otherwise you would have been honest enough to acknowledge that I didn't say they were. But hey, if you need to lie in order to make your impotent point, go to it.

Oh, do please excuse me. When I asked you to provide a brief list of Quebec's distinct customs and traditions and you answered "Here is a brief list, and listed bagels, Montreal, smoked meat, and cold winters, I foolishly assumed you were answering the question I had posed. I see now that you were answering a question nobody had asked which related to your food choices, where you buy the best porn, and what you didn't like about Quebec.

You want a shovel?

[gc1765]

"Dion weighs in" on recognizing Quebec as a nation:

Ottawa — Stephane Dion has drafted a compromise resolution aimed at defusing a potentially explosive debate over recognizing Quebec as a nation that threatens to rupture the Liberal leadership convention.

The lone Quebec leadership candidate and Chretien-era unity minister is also taking a shot at front-runner Michael Ignatieff, calling him a "trouble maker" for turning recognition of Quebec nationhood into a campaign issue.

Link

[normanchateau]

"Michael Ignatieff and his organization imprinted themselves on the provincial wing by persuading its members to back his notion to recognize Quebec as a nation."

Why are the Liberals bent on destroying Canada and I truly wonder if Mr. Ignatieff can honestly refer to himself as a Canadian in more ways than one?

I'm no supporter of Michael Ignatieff but if I were, I'd certainly be grateful now to Stephen Harper and the Conservatives for sharing Ignatieff's "vision".

[Higgly]

Ignatieff took a Quebec voter issue that was drifting away from sovereignty and tilted it all in the other direction. Harper had to match him to get votes in Quebec.

An academic who has spent the last 30 or so years living somewhere else is messing with our country. Where are my tar and feathers? Send this clown packing.